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Alt History ideas, rec and general discussion thread

In this setting, long-lived certainly, immortal not really, the closest thing would be the moon rabbits since they can make life-extending elixirs. This world's versions of Sendai and Niigata are both ruled by Ryuu, in Himikoku it's a general rule that coasts are largely human and ryuu controlled, while the more mountainous it gets the more you run into other species like Oni (Mt. Oe) and Tengu (Mt. Kurama). For a non-Japan example, in Ireland you'd have whole fairy cities underground or in trees.

Edit: If you want to see Himikoku in action, I once ran something of a Quest during its Bakumatsu Era called 'Mahou Ronin Sachiko', however it's from four years ago now and, while it wouldn't need a reboot if I continued it, there's definitely some things I'd do differently now, e.g. the nature of Sakoku in this setting being Himikoku hiding underwater or in the skies, rather than a Gensokyo-esque veil.
 
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Hmmm, after reading up on the history of Spain, I never realized that there was a castillian civil war, in which because of it, they managed to unite with Aragon, to become Spain. However, I had a better idea, in which, what if, Castile had united with Portugal instead of Aragon. The main point of difference in this scenario would be Isabella's marriage to King Alfonso V of Portugal instead of King Ferdinand II of Aragon. Now, it could have long lasting ripple, though I need ideas for what it could be. I would know that they would still go after Granda and conquer it. I need ideas for what happens afterwards. Any ideas?
 
FireOfDoom23 said:
Hmmm, after reading up on the history of Spain, I never realized that there was a castillian civil war, in which because of it, they managed to unite with Aragon, to become Spain. However, I had a better idea, in which, what if, Castile had united with Portugal instead of Aragon. The main point of difference in this scenario would be Isabella's marriage to King Alfonso V of Portugal instead of King Ferdinand II of Aragon. Now, it could have long lasting ripple, though I need ideas for what it could be. I would know that they would still go after Granda and conquer it. I need ideas for what happens afterwards. Any ideas?
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They have been several TL's with this premise, A closely related idea to this would have been if Miguel da Paz who would have been heir to Portugal, Castile and Aragon would had lived. I only mention this because I think one TL with him did have Portugal triumph in the Castilian Civil War.
 
[Probably too dark of an idea]

"The Night The Star Fell on Alabama" -- Slavery is abolished in America on Nov. 12th 1833, though not in a way that enslaved people would have chosen: comet 55P/Tempel-Tuttle strikes the Earth, killing everyone from Texas to Virginia. It's not big enough to end civilization, but definitely ends the United States.
 
Announcing that I've gone and made a thread about my 'Magical Girl History of Japan' idea that we've been talking about (King Washington apparently made a thread like it once, but that was a while ago and with a more recent point of divergence).

forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Himikoku: A Magical Girl History of Japan Supernatural

A 'What If' history where Magical Girls are a part of Japan since near the beginning of its history, forming its Samurai Class, its bushi and onmyouji, and giving an overview of how this would alter the course of the country.
forums.sufficientvelocity.com forums.sufficientvelocity.com
 
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Just thought this up. What if Georges Clemenceau was born a century earlier, in the Vendee, as he actually was, and became a deputy during the General Estates?
 
SzechuanSauce said:
Just thought this up. What if Georges Clemenceau was born a century earlier, in the Vendee, as he actually was, and became a deputy during the General Estates?
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Well I am not very well versed in french history but this sounds really interesting, so I imagine he would be born in 1741 which makes him the right age to be a very central figure in a lot of very important things, for example I could imagine him being prominent in the US revolution and perhaps meeting Lafayette there, but back in France he could be a very powerful political force who might rally the people against the church and maybe even avoid the worst excesses of Robespierre.

I am unsure as to how he would handle the Vendee, it might go better due to him being from there but it might go worse due to his strong political convictions.
 
About Japanese history again but a (relatively) simpler question, what if Ishida Mitsunari's Western Army (technically Mori Terumoto's, but Mitsunari was de facto leader) won the battle of Sekigahara?

I think Toyotomi Hideyori, unlike his father, could qualify as shogun, since I believe you had to be able to trace yourself back to the Minamoto, which Oda Nobunaga could and Hideyori was his grand-nephew. Don't know if Mitsunari could, I know Mori Terumoto might be able to qualify since he was descended from a Minamoto retainer.

If Mitsunari became regent, well I've heard people say his governing style and mindset was closer to that of a more modern ruler than Ieyasu, but I'm not quite sure what's meant by this.

I bet sakoku would probably happen anyway, since the Toyotomi were no more comfortable with Europe than the Tokugawa. Ishida victory at Sekigahara could spill over all the way to the Boshin War, since it'd flip the losing and thus vengeful clans, unless maybe Ishida was fairer on his enemies than Ieyasu, but no source I've come across suggests this.
 
In order to prevent sakoku, I would say that a different shogunate clan is needed- the Shimazu seem ideal, as they have a strong powerbase and imperial blood, meaning that they will be more confident dealing with the daimyos- and of course controlling southern Kyushu makes foreign trade more central to their regime.
 
Lapin Lune said:
About Japanese history again but a (relatively) simpler question, what if Ishida Mitsunari's Western Army (technically Mori Terumoto's, but Mitsunari was de facto leader) won the battle of Sekigahara?

I think Toyotomi Hideyori, unlike his father, could qualify as shogun, since I believe you had to be able to trace yourself back to the Minamoto, which Oda Nobunaga could and Hideyori was his grand-nephew. Don't know if Mitsunari could, I know Mori Terumoto might be able to qualify since he was descended from a Minamoto retainer.

If Mitsunari became regent, well I've heard people say his governing style and mindset was closer to that of a more modern ruler than Ieyasu, but I'm not quite sure what's meant by this.

I bet sakoku would probably happen anyway, since the Toyotomi were no more comfortable with Europe than the Tokugawa. Ishida victory at Sekigahara could spill over all the way to the Boshin War, since it'd flip the losing and thus vengeful clans, unless maybe Ishida was fairer on his enemies than Ieyasu, but no source I've come across suggests this.
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Hideyoshi could've become shogun (and you didn't need to be a Minamoto), he simply didn't want, he got everything a shogun could do as Kampaku anyway, there is no reason for young Hideyori to abandon his birthright for a theoretically lower ranking title.

Victory of the Western Army is going to lead to a lot of... problems for Japan, Ieyasu could quickly seize power since well, he was the main dude, Terumoto has no such standing, he has to deal with Uesugi Kagekatsu, Ukita Hideie and Maeda Toshinaga, plus other big clans like the Shimazu and the old guard Toyotomi loyalists like Ishida Mitsunari (maybe Kato Kiyomasa and Fukushima Masanori too if they don't defect). It also depended on what happens to the losers of the Eastern Army.

In general, there are a lot of uncertainties until Hideyori can assume office, and that's presuming thing don't fall apart in Sengoku 2.0, for all his faults the establishment of the Tokugawa bakufu finally brought peace to the country (save a few rebellions here and there of course ;))
 
Undead Martyr said:
In order to prevent sakoku, I would say that a different shogunate clan is needed- the Shimazu seem ideal, as they have a strong powerbase and imperial blood, meaning that they will be more confident dealing with the daimyos- and of course controlling southern Kyushu makes foreign trade more central to their regime.
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Or simply have Oda Nobunaga not assassinated, and him ruling a Japan unified solely by him. Nobunaga seemed to be rather open to European contacts. That seems easier than catapulting a completely new faction into the game, at least.
 
Lapin Lune said:
About Japanese history again but a (relatively) simpler question, what if Ishida Mitsunari's Western Army (technically Mori Terumoto's, but Mitsunari was de facto leader) won the battle of Sekigahara?

I think Toyotomi Hideyori, unlike his father, could qualify as shogun, since I believe you had to be able to trace yourself back to the Minamoto, which Oda Nobunaga could and Hideyori was his grand-nephew. Don't know if Mitsunari could, I know Mori Terumoto might be able to qualify since he was descended from a Minamoto retainer.

If Mitsunari became regent, well I've heard people say his governing style and mindset was closer to that of a more modern ruler than Ieyasu, but I'm not quite sure what's meant by this.

I bet sakoku would probably happen anyway, since the Toyotomi were no more comfortable with Europe than the Tokugawa. Ishida victory at Sekigahara could spill over all the way to the Boshin War, since it'd flip the losing and thus vengeful clans, unless maybe Ishida was fairer on his enemies than Ieyasu, but no source I've come across suggests this.
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If Mistunari won, it's hard to say. First and Foremost their will not be a Tokyo, or even an Edo as we know it. Hideyori might have an easier time of things, since unlike Ieyasu he doesn't have to recreate a feudal system to award his allies per say, but what the Toyotomi do with Japan it is hard to gauge. Ieyasu's Sakoku came from a need to make sure the power system he created would not be upset by foreign influences. Where Hideyori goes from here is anyone guess.

Undead Martyr said:
In order to prevent sakoku, I would say that a different shogunate clan is needed- the Shimazu seem ideal, as they have a strong powerbase and imperial blood, meaning that they will be more confident dealing with the daimyos- and of course controlling southern Kyushu makes foreign trade more central to their regime.
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The Shimazu have a problem with things are going to get dicey once they leave Kyushu, and you need to prevent the Oda from creating an apparatus of unification. But avoiding Sakoku I would say is less about the clan and more there has to be unification by force and not through alliances I've done this concept of Japan under a different clan with the Imagawa Clan, who aren't hamstrung by as much distance. But even a surviving Oda clan could have worked, assuming no Honnoji incident.
 
New favorite ironic trope: Crypto fascist depictions of left wing countries. I say this because I want the Union of American States to appear to be one of these kinds of strawman nations on the surface, but in reality it's just a moderate social democratic country that's larping as a communist one and is made to look bad by United States in exile propaganda
 
I'd read that. The natural consequence of the American right conflating anything left of themselves with Communism; a "Socialist" revolution in America with Communist symbolism and names that wants... free healthcare, free education, the rich to pay their fair share of taxes, etc.
 
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Actually I got another idea. You know of the proposals of uniting Romania and Hungary or Romania and Bulgaria? What if either of the proposals became true?

Trying to think of a good POD and what happens after they unite. Stalin becomes more paranoid?
 
EBR said:
I'd read that. The natural consequence of the American right conflating anything left of themselves with Communism; a "Socialist" revolution in America with Communist symbolism and names that wants... free healthcare, free education, the rich to pay their fair share of taxes, etc.
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Pretty much, also by this point the Overton window was pushed so far to the right with cliche dystopian American bullshit that the most radical members of the revolution are essentially European centrists. Because why else would things that seem fairly reasonable to a SVer be depicted in a negative light by the propagandist?
 
Terran Allias said:
New favorite ironic trope: Crypto fascist depictions of left wing countries. I say this because I want the Union of American States to appear to be one of these kinds of strawman nations on the surface, but in reality it's just a moderate social democratic country that's larping as a communist one and is made to look bad by United States in exile propaganda
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Sounds fun. Is that something you've just come up with, or are there some good examples you've already seen? If so, I'd like to see them myself.
 
Continuing onto the idea of Hungary or Bulgaria uniting with Romania, if they United, I could see Yugoslavia, Austria and a few other countries coming together to help contain the Bulgarian Romanian Union or the Hungarian Romanian union. Plus Stalin might join in.
The biggest question is how would they even managed to pull it off. Any ideas?
 
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General_Urist said:
Sounds fun. Is that something you've just come up with, or are there some good examples you've already seen? If so, I'd like to see them myself.
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Three inspirations, my surface level understanding of syndicalism when I stopped being a chud, those crappy right wing "Obama will turn into Stalin any minute now" timelines, and this one description line in a map by a guy who's more favorable to liberal democracies.
the guys who live up to it, like the Worker's States, which is basically a more left-wing OTL America but bigger and they slapped "Worker's" and "People's" and "Socialist" on everything and there's a grain and gear welded to the outside of Lady Liberty's torch, they still love democracy and most of the time live up to the promise of equality;
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So overall, unlike Reds there's not much of a year zero to restructure society, a lot of the revolutionary fervor is about as surface level as the patriotism in OTL America, and the trade unions run businesses about the same as a normal company, just with stronger workers rights. Especially the larger coops when things get less personal. But of course the people on the outside looking in would view this as the worst possible thing
 
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I've been kicking around the idea of a fifth or sixth century the discovery of what's now Newfoundland by the Irish or some other group from the British isles with the result of low level migration to coastal north America the end result the settlers forming of scattered tiny states along the coastal areas of Canada and the American northeast but I've always been leerily for several reasons from how little is known about that period of time in northern Europe and the Americas and the general butterfly effect that would likely result from such a thing on world history.

Some thoughts I had was it approaching with the earlier periods as being more legendary with chronicles written much later than the events events being recorded and archeological evidence.
 
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