Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 9: Icon’s Idiosyncrasies Incite Irritating Inquisition

Doomlord9 said:
I meant by overall awareness, not distance. We know absolutely EVERYTHING about ALL insects within our range simultaneously, our vision we still need to focus and discern what we're looking for as well as activate the correct modules at the correct times. SoPA is always on and working.
Let's go through sun tzu's write-in-
[] Write-In: Administration Isn't Micro-Management: Keep the Shard of Perfect Administration on, unless Clarity is high. When we're starting to feel the effects of Clarity, and are not immediately threatened, turn the Shard off for a day or two, until we're back down to normal.
Most of the time, it's on.
If Clarity is high and we're not expecting battle, we keep it off for a day or two. If we are expecting battle, or we sense Iris inbound, we keep it on until the situation is resolved.
 
Love this update, particularly how you handled Legend and Dragon getting the reveal. The meditation on charms was also well done.
Unfortunately, the Cross-Phase Scanner sub-module is still disappointingly useless in the Nowhere Universe; with Earth a multiverse instead of a single concrete Creation, if the sub-module yielded anything it would be a blinding mess of all possible Earths laid on top of each other
...

...

...:eek:
The resulting 'charm' - is wholly unique, unreproducible, and likely cannot be uninstalled without mentally crippling its wielder. While the charm is active by default, it requires an expenditure of [Clarity] points of Willpower to deactivate.
I think that this is far too prohibitive a cost, particularly at high Clarity. Spending a lot of WP is a big fuckin' deal, for example the threshold for spending 5 WP is on the order of, "I would only spend this much WP if the alternative was dying horribly." Having to spend 5+ WP to deactivate a charm is far too extreme. I think that at the very least a much more sound level of WP cost would be to scale it by the same tiers that Clarity already has:
Clarity 0-2: 0 WP
Clarity 3-4: 1 WP
Clarity 5-7: 2 WP
Clarity 8-9: 3 WP
Clarity 10: 4 WP

If you feel that it's important for Taylor to always have to spend WP to deactivate SoPA, have the cost start at 1 instead of 0 WP.

A more simple way of handling it would be to have either a flat 1~3 WP cost, or, if you feel that having it scale by Clarity is important, going with [Clarity/2] or [Clarity/3] WP.

I am, again, going to stress that you are going to want to err or having it cost less WP since any WP expenditure at all is rather significant.



Furthermore, every 24 hours (or the first time it is enabled in a 24-hour period) the charm generates a point of temporary Clarity. At Clarity 5, the charm's mental influence over the wielder grows, instilling an additional -1 external penalty to all social rolls that do not involve administration, but yields a +1 to all mental and Conviction rolls that do. This penalty/bonus increases to -/+2 at Clarity 8 and -/+3 at Clarity 10.
Should be an Internal Penalty, not External. As a quick rule of thumb: Internal Penalties take dice out of your pool, External Penalties increase the Difficulty of the action in question; this means that a -2 Internal Penalty is equivalent to a -1 External Penalty since increasing the Difficulty by one has the same mechanical effect as reducing the dice pool by two.

Since you're talking about +/-[#] to a roll, I'm assuming that you're talking about adding/removing dice, not altering the Difficulty.

As a final suggestion, I suggest buffing the bonus dice so that it applies to all rolls involving administration, not just Mental and Conviction rolls. The most elegant solution would be to have it convert the Clarity penalty into bonus dice (that count as coming from a charm) for all rolls involving Administration - analogous to charms that allow you to turn wound penalties into a bonus. Which would make Taylor actually pretty good in very specific social situations, such as managing her Assembly, finding out if a person is an acceptable candidate for Conversion/convincing them that Conversion is the proper thing to do. Highly situational and powerful but comes with the drawback that it could be construed as Taylor treating them as pieces on a chessboard.

[edit]

Actually, one more suggestion: Drop the whole, "adds a point of temp. Clarity every 24hrs" bit. This has some really nasty side effects - for one, it means that you can't ever reduce clarity without channeling Virtues, since the Clarity we'd lose from human interaction is being canceled out by the gain from SoPA. Furthermore, it alters the daily change of Clarity from being a downward trend towards Clarity gain since there's always the possibility of failing or botching the Compassion roll. Finally, it puts a hard cap on the amount of Clarity that we can lose per story arc equal to our Virtue channels.

If you want the charm to cause Clarity gain, a much simpler solution that completely eliminates these issues would be to just include a line at the end of the charm text saying, "This charm confers Exemplar 1 while active."
 
Doomlord9 said:
I think we're getting off-track with this.

The point is people want to turn off SoPA to help reduce Clarity.

The only reason we haven't dumped clarity rapidly on this trip with how we have been acting is because our Exhaltation is messed up.

WHEN we fix our Exhaltation at the very first chance we get, Clarity will no longer be difficult to drop even with SoPA active.

Alternately, having a default condition to disable it means we lose not only our primary recon ability but also our ability to remotely talk with people, work our insect projects, costs us WP for something that will flip itself back on anyway at the drop of a hat, and as soon as we get Iris back will disable him and piss him off to no end. All while giving us a absolutely miniscule bonus to our chance to lose Clarity if we're not at 8-10.


It's just not worth the penalties we would take to have it scheduled like that.

I can see leaving it off for right now, until we reach Philly and get our exaltation worked out, but beyond that there is pretty much no real benefit to disabling SoPA
The "Administration Isn't Micro-Management" write-in explicitly says we only turn SoPA off if Clarity gets high enough to be a problem. So, if we reach the point where losing Clarity becomes as easy as you expect, it's unlikely to be an issue.

That's the main reason I wrote it rather than go with the "Shard Training Observation" write-in.
 
Doomlord9 said:
I think we're getting off-track with this.

The point is people want to turn off SoPA to help reduce Clarity.

The only reason we haven't dumped clarity rapidly on this trip with how we have been acting is because our Exhaltation is messed up.

WHEN we fix our Exhaltation at the very first chance we get, Clarity will no longer be difficult to drop even with SoPA active.

Alternately, having a default condition to disable it means we lose not only our primary recon ability but also our ability to remotely talk with people, work our insect projects, costs us WP for something that will flip itself back on anyway at the drop of a hat, and as soon as we get Iris back will disable him and piss him off to no end. All while giving us a absolutely miniscule bonus to our chance to lose Clarity if we're not at 8-10.


It's just not worth the penalties we would take to have it scheduled like that.

I can see leaving it off for right now, until we reach Philly and get our exhaltation worked out, but beyond that there is pretty much no real benefit to disabling SoPA
There's ALSO the Temperance rolls we have to pass in order to keep it turned off as well
 
Doomlord9 said:
And I don't want it off at all. We've already been ambushed multiple times with only SoPA giving us a hint of a warning, Coil and Behemoth come to mind.

I do not want to have it off and be vulnerable to ambush. PERIOD.

If it gets to 8-10, we have MUCH bigger problems to worry about than social malfunctions, even getting it back up to 5 means social is far down the list of our priorities.

That's why I said, I wouldn't mind having it turned off ONLY UNTIL WE REACH PHILLY AND GET OUR EXHALTATION FIXED but not having any conditions to turn it off besides that.

Any and all times SoPA goes down I want to be forced via a vote.
Hopefully once we get our Exaltation straightened out, and get some therapy, we'll finally switch to Exalted rules (instead of OWoD ones) so that we don't jump straight from 0 to 7 on the Clarity scale in one battle anymore.
 
Incidentally I could think of at least one application of Cross Phase Scanner, use it to find where shard main bodies are housed. Scion for example, is probably going to be visible even under all the multiple earths as he occupies a huge fraction of all earths.
 
Jinnt said:
Ugh seriously leaving it on all the time is just as bad as leaving it off too much.

IT IS MESSING WITH OUR HEAD.

Spending WP is not the freaking disaster people are making it out to be.
And we'll easily be able to handle it since I bet the first thing we'll vote for once reaching Philly will be Meditating on our Exaltation fixing the problem.
 
Doomlord9 said:
It is when it will flip itself back on at any point that we MIGHT be able to use it and fail our temperance roll, which we would likely do at least a third of the time.

And it's not the shard that is the problem, it's the mis-aligned Exhaltation that is the issue. Once we get that fixed, Clarity will drop like a rock via virtue channels being one clarity drop per channel instead of one clarity per day per channel.
"Eh... we can take it" :p
 
Bear Templar said:
I don't know if it would work (for xp) but since Alchemical Exalted can, under the right conditions, turn into a Colossus or even a city why not have a Endbringer vs Colossus or city fight. The idea of the city chasing off an Endbringer or even killing it, well I could imagine a very interesting reaction for the Cape community
Because becomeing a colossus requires essence 6, which we can't get without having access to a vat to upgrade ourselves and 100+ years of experience.
 
Jinnt said:
The shard is literally shouting "CONTROL" to our subconscious while it's on that sounds like a problem to me.
Yes so? it mostly just manifested in ways like wanting to make Aisha sit up and not slouch or other harmless stuff like that.
 
EOA cribbing Hero's micro-missle launcher from his old suit and Macross Missile Massacre-ing the S9 with Essence Missiles.

The meeting between Alchemical!Taylor and Conquest!Taylor is joined by Zenith!Taylor and/or is crashed by Roblin Queen!Taylor
I'd absolutely love to see either of these, especially the second one. Sun Tzu?
 
Doomlord9 said:
EOA cribbing Hero's micro-missle launcher from his old suit and Macross Missile Massacre-ing the S9 with Essence Missiles.
Awesome, also that reminds me that we should try to integrate some of the designs of Hero's armor into our own both as a little tribute AND because he probably had some bitching stuff what with being one of those abstract tinkers (iirc his speciality was theorized to be frequencies).
 
ticktrick said:
Yeah but QA-chan's experience of social interaction boils down to two phrases, "Assuming Direct Control." and "Minions! March!"
That's why we have to leave her switched on so that we can teach how make new friends (without assuming direct control). After all if you go by the theory that she was the one speaking to Contessa at the end she at least learned of right and wrong and stuff from Taylor enough that she believed she was her.
 
Chandra Magic said:
If it seems like Aisha is being pushed hard, it's mostly because both Gromweld and I find Aisha antics amusing. She would also get the most benefit from being Exalted right now (the ability to turn her shard off at will, rather than having it stuck in the on position).

So neither of us are actually trying to push any one person more than the other, but yes, there are characters we think are awesome so that kinda shows at times.
I can only speak for myself, but I have to admit that, as a reader, I'm actually getting a bit sick of her. She really seems to be on the edge of crowding out the other characters that we'd previously interacted with and had built up some form of relationships with, which I'd prefer to build on, rather than have some new character hog the limelight.

Perhaps call it over-exposure in a very short space of time. There's a big cast, and Aisha was introduced comparatively late.
Chandra Magic said:
As to SoPA. I am only going to remind you guys two things. One: you survived with it on fully and completely with little to no side effects for the first three arcs no problem, and two: you currently have no Temp Willpower.
I think people may be looking back at some of the oddities in Taylor canon behaviours and wondering if they apply to us.
Chandra Magic said:
This is why the vote is not more specific than On, off, Lightswitch. It's just a general attitude Gromweld will take in regards to SoPA, because these are the three major options that showed up in discussion a lot on the thread(s). Seriously; you guys are focusing way, way too much on this.
It's more about the basis for the decision making of switching it on and off, combined with the absolute determination to get out of the high Clarity state that's out lived its welcome. Yes, we're going back to normal anyway, but I think people want to double down on that.
Chandra Magic said:
Also, Autochlon did the best he could in turning a continent sized shard into something resembling a charm. Not that Gromweld isn't willing to edit and change something later, but yeah. You have some serious drawbacks for having some serious awesome.
I have to admit that I expected the charm would be the interface to the shard rather than shard itself, which would still allow other Alchemicals to 'plug' into it, in a way analogous to the way solar sorcerers do the Eyeless Face.
 
Chandra Magic said:
Yes, it's horribly costly, but it's also horribly overpowered for it's requirements. Seriously; if a GM let this into a normal game, they should be glared to death for letting overpowered bullshit in.

Also, Autochlon did the best he could in turning a continent sized shard into something resembling a charm. Not that Gromweld isn't willing to edit and change something later, but yeah. You have some serious drawbacks for having some serious awesome.
As it currently stands, the charm is toxic to the setting because it removes player agency. Let's say that character only had the bog-standard WP 5 - this means that if the character hits Clarity 6, they can no longer afford to pay the WP cost to turn off the charm. If they can't turn off the charm, then they're stuck with all the problems that I outlined and thus players no longer have control over their character.

The charm, as currently written, is toxic.

Which is why I took the time to extensively highlight the problems with it, and to propose numerous methods for addressing those issues.
 
FunkyEntropy said:
As it currently stands, the charm is toxic to the setting because it removes player agency. Let's say that character only had the bog-standard WP 5 - this means that if the character hits Clarity 6, they can no longer afford to pay the WP cost to turn off the charm. If they can't turn off the charm, then they're stuck with all the problems that I outlined and thus players no longer have control over their character.

The charm, as currently written, is toxic.

Which is why I took the time to extensively highlight the problems with it, and to propose numerous methods for addressing those issues.
Hmm.

There are plenty of charms with downsides that you can't turn off. Mostly infernal ones, but Voidtech certainly also qualifies, if you're looking at Alchemical examples*. It's certainly much better than Untamed Apocalypse Shintai.

* and what Autocthon did to the shard certainly has a bit of a Voidtech vibe, even if it doesn't cross the line.
 
Alratan said:
Hmm.

There are plenty of charms with downsides that you can't turn off. Mostly infernal ones, but Voidtech certainly also qualifies. It's certainly much better than Untamed Apocalypse Shintai.
Are there any Voidtech charms or submodules that cause positive-feedback loops and cause death if uninstalled? That's kind of a big difference - you can always uninstall Voidtech before you hit Dissonance 10 to avoid getting hit with permanent Gremlin syndrome.

Also,
Untamed Apocalypse Shintai makes characters largely unplayable, so Storytellers should probably restrict it to antagonists.
 
FunkyEntropy said:
Are there any Voidtech charms or submodules that cause positive-feedback loops and cause death if uninstalled? That's kind of a big difference - you can always uninstall Voidtech before you hit Dissonance 10 to avoid getting hit with permanent Gremlin syndrome.
Yes, both the one that makes you not needs Vats and the one that gets you sorcery cannot be uninstalled.

They don't kill you though. Neither does SoPA though.
 
Alratan said:
Yes, both the one that makes you not needs Vats and the one that gets you sorcery cannot be uninstalled.

They don't kill you though. Neither does SoPA though.
From the description:
The resulting 'charm' - is wholly unique, unreproducible, and likely cannot be uninstalled without mentally crippling its wielder
Mentally crippled isn't much better than dead in this setting.
 
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