The Masked Indenter strikes again!landcollector said:
Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 9: Icon’s Idiosyncrasies Incite Irritating Inquisition
- Thread starter Gromweld
- Start date
-
- Tags
- exalted (white wolf) worm
Thanks, fixed.sun tzu said:
Irony is a thing you know. Besides, the meditation stunt doesn't really match with any of the other vote options. Therefore, the write-in option.ticktrick said:
It takes thirteen days for us to get into a mental breakdown state due to lack of willpower, and the very fact that we're such high clarity in the first place is a massive misreading of the rules to make losing clarity harder on the players.
I am still not impressed, especially with the out of nowhere trauma rules.
There were innumerable conflicts that could have been brought to bear that didn't land on abusing Clarity (Which is not the Great Curse. It is a design feature. It is a tool, something that most Alchemicals can pick up or put down as they need as long as they're not going heavily into Transhuman elements. Even a Clarity 10 Alchemical can trivially bring it down simply by being a Heroic individual like they were designed to be.) or interpreting new mechanics entirely to our detriment after massively misinterpreting player votes to mean something completely counter intuitive that should have been obviously wrong.
So yeah, I was following this quest even though it's gone places I personally don't like in a story because the writing was good enough for me to ignore that, but this was just too much for me.
I am still not impressed, especially with the out of nowhere trauma rules.
There were innumerable conflicts that could have been brought to bear that didn't land on abusing Clarity (Which is not the Great Curse. It is a design feature. It is a tool, something that most Alchemicals can pick up or put down as they need as long as they're not going heavily into Transhuman elements. Even a Clarity 10 Alchemical can trivially bring it down simply by being a Heroic individual like they were designed to be.) or interpreting new mechanics entirely to our detriment after massively misinterpreting player votes to mean something completely counter intuitive that should have been obviously wrong.
So yeah, I was following this quest even though it's gone places I personally don't like in a story because the writing was good enough for me to ignore that, but this was just too much for me.
Actually, he's got a bit of a point. A survey of the votes look like:landcollector said:
Vote tally:
##### 3.13
Main Vote:
Surprise Carnival Total 5
No. of votes: 3
Peanuckle, GiftOfLove, Mannan
No. of votes: 1
Jack Folstam
No. of votes: 1
Jinnt
Get over PTSD Total 17(mix of Free Action double vote, stunt under Essence Reservoir to Heart and stunt under An Amusing Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum)
No. of votes: 1
Daemir Silverstreak
No. of votes: 1
charysa
No. of votes: 1
.IronSun.
No. of votes: 1
Esbilon
No. of votes: 1
Strunkriindiisk
No. of votes: 1
DragonBard
No. of votes: 1
sun tzu
No. of votes: 1
Teras
No. of votes: 3
Doomlord9, sainen, Z000
No. of votes: 4
FunkyEntropy, 1986ctcel, Skelm, landcollector
No. of votes: 1
Anasurimbor
No. of votes: 1
Arbit
Essence Reservoir-to-Heart - Aisha Total 2
No. of votes: 1
charysa
No. of votes: 1
Strunkriindiisk
Essence Reservoir-to-Heart - Dennis Total 11
No. of votes: 1
.IronSun.
No. of votes: 1
Esbilon
No. of votes: 8
BobTheNinja, veekie, HyperspatialParasite, mmstar, abyssalentity, ThornE, SSanne, ticktrick
No. of votes: 1
DragonBard
spudman
XP Vote:
Not counting them because it's pretty much unanimous Craft>Bureaucracy>Medicine and not on debate
Which means if you use the stunt under the Amusing Thing option you'd be counting the circus visit people under your main vote . The entire PTSD thing is split under many different approaches. It would be cleaner to consolidate all of them into their own distinct write in rather than An Amusing Thing
Actually, Daemir's Meditation stunt is the only one under the Essence reservoir to heart vote. All the others are under the write-in option, as they should be.veekie said:
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
While it might not be much comfort Gromweld HAS suggested for us to meditate more to understand stuff about our charms and Exaltations for quite a while now, we might have been able to catch this sooner if we had.Cytokinesis said:
With what opportunities? Heck, we did meditate this time, and apparently we need to do it even more because we're incapable of realizing we might be addicted to one of our charms, and Autochthon for some reason designed our Exaltation differently than everyone elses.1986ctcel said:
We should have been Clarity 3 before even leaving Brockton bay, barring some really bad rolls, which would have made things a lot easier on us. We should have been 2 or less by the time we got here, meaning there would have been no robot complications that forces us to do things against the votes.
Heck, Clarity in and of itself should have prevented half the problems that did occur in this update! Not wanting to shut off the charm because crimes are occurring around us? Our logical mind tells us that we're perfectly capable of defending ourselves, that we're not actually using it to prevent said crimes, so it is unnecessary to turn it back on. Our emotions should be incredibly damped at this point, meaning panicking from PTSD even at the Clarity 3-4 level should be significantly harder than it was.
Also, the entire reason the breakdown happened in the first place is because we kept spending Willpower turning on and off the charm like an imbecile, which drained us to the bottom in moments.
Yeah, if you abuse the rules, bring an entirely new rule into play, then only use it at the worst possible circumstance, sure, things will go badly.
It also means I'm just going to go, because watching rules being misinterpreted to our detriment to prolong extremely annoying stages in the quest is aggravating enough that I want no part in it.
And having elephants stomp around could remind us of Behemoth and cause another freakout. No thanks to that.Jinnt said:
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
Stupid zero willpowerlandcollector said:
. It would have been awesome to see Vista try to act mature when near all the cute fuzzy animals and riding the Elephants and other stuff PLUS maybe learning the recipe's to the delicious Circus food.I agree, it would have been nice. But now's not the time.1986ctcel said:Stupid zero willpower
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
Did we choose to meditate on something SPECIFICALLY or was it just trying to contact Authocthon again? Since I think we have to specify what we're meditating on to get information on it.Cytokinesis said:
Ah, you are correct. Then Gromweld should have made that clear as a consequence beforehand or gave us an option to stop trying it once it became readily apparent to us that turning off the charm was heavily taxing on our mental reserves.Azure said:
Even the expenditure of a single point of willpower is supposed to be noticeable. Spending 4+ or whatever without seemingly realizing it is just another problem.
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
We have ZERO willpower left, thats presumably why we freaked out when trying to deactivate Sopa when outside the restaurant, since without Sopa we can't handle the PTSD.Jinnt said:
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
Not if we have Willpower to spend.Jinnt said:
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
No I mean if we have WP to spend we won't freak out (I think?) when we lose clarity.Jinnt said:
There is a reason that many charms in the system have flavor text, then say explicitly that the ST should say the exact mechanics when talking to the players. Off the top of my head, go look at Insignificant Embers Intuition.Chandra Magic said:
They do this because it's pretty damn easy to misinterpret or miss a single line that is ambiguous to its meaning.
If it cost willpower to shut it off or on, Gromweld should have told us that before we made a plan (if that is true) to continually shut it on and off. We've had this charm long enough to realize. Something that has that big a mechanical impact (Actually more, because Gromweld introduced a new rule out of nowhere!), should been made readily apparent before it became a major issue.
System transparency is important. This rule, amongst others, has been misinterpreted to our detriment to artificially manufacture conflicts that were both unnecessary and made little sense considering the person in question.
E: Removed a slightly inflammatory portion.
To clear the confusion up, here's the individual vote counts.
Vote tally:
##### 3.13
Main Vote:
[X] Write-In: An Amusing Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum?
No. of votes: 18
Peanuckle, GiftOfLove, Jack Folstam, Mannan, Jinnt, sun tzu, Teras, Doomlord9, sainen, FunkyEntropy, Z000, Anasurimbor, 1986ctcel, Skelm, Arbit, landcollector, LoreOfClark, Esbilon
[X] Essence Reservoir-to-Heart: Provide counsel for a member of your caravan, getting to know them better as a mortal as well as evaluating them for Alchemical potential.
No. of votes: 15
Daemir Silverstreak, charysa, .IronSun., Strunkriindiisk, BobTheNinja, DragonBard, veekie, HyperspatialParasite, spudman, mmstar, abyssalentity, ThornE, SSanne, ticktrick, Bozwevial
[X] Free Action: get over our PTSD. (Wits/Willpower + Integrity, Conviction channel)
No. of votes: 14
charysa, Strunkriindiisk, DragonBard, sun tzu, Teras, Doomlord9, sainen, FunkyEntropy, Z000, 1986ctcel, Skelm, landcollector, LoreOfClark, Esbilon
[X] Free Action: get over our PTSD. (Wits + Integrity, Conviction channel)
No. of votes: 2
Daemir Silverstreak, .IronSun.
Stunt:
-[X] Stunt: You've been getting burned too often by poor understanding of your own Charms, and it's making you ineffective. This stops now. You tell the others you're taking a nap, close your eyes, absolutely do not turn SoPA on, and meditate. It's high time to figure yourself out.
No. of votes: 14
Daemir Silverstreak, sun tzu, Teras, Doomlord9, sainen, FunkyEntropy, Z000, Anasurimbor, 1986ctcel, Skelm, Arbit, landcollector, LoreOfClark, Esbilon
-[X] Stunt: Talk to Dennis, find out how he's doing, and what he thinks of things so far. Get his support in covering up for any Clarity induced social mistakes, and see about enlisting his assistance in keeping Aisha sufficiently motivated and amused, especially after their mutual Glenn sessions. The last personal conversation you've had with him involved a prank involving being surrounded by a swarm of bugs, after all, things could stand to be on a more positive note.
No. of votes: 12
.IronSun., BobTheNinja, DragonBard, veekie, HyperspatialParasite, spudman, mmstar, abyssalentity, ThornE, SSanne, ticktrick, Bozwevial
-[X] Stunt: Yeah, Behemoth was scary. Yeah, people died, including our friends. But cowering in fear, having panic attacks? That's letting them win. That's letting our friends down. We can't let that happen, can't let them win. We are better than this. We are Exalted. We are a divine instrument of the Great Maker Autochthon. We stand tall, where others would falter, against the darkness and the forces that seek the destruction of humanity.
No. of votes: 9
charysa, sun tzu, Teras, FunkyEntropy, 1986ctcel, Skelm, landcollector, LoreOfClark, Esbilon
-[X] Yeah, Behemoth was scary. Yeah, people died, including our friends. But cowering in fear, having panic attacks? That's letting them win. That's letting our friends down. We can't let that happen, can't let them win. We are better than this. We are Exalted. We are a divine instrument of the Great Maker Autochthon. We stand tall, where others would falter, against the darkness and the forces that seek the destruction of humanity.
No. of votes: 6
Daemir Silverstreak, Strunkriindiisk, DragonBard, Doomlord9, sainen, Z000
-[x] Yeah, Behemoth was scary. Yeah, people died, including our friends. But cowering in fear, having panic attacks? That's letting them win. That's letting our friends down. We can't let that happen, can't let them win. We are better than this. We are Exalted. We are a divine instrument of the Great Make Autochthon. We stand tall, where others would falter, against the darkness and the forces that seek the destruction of humanity.
No. of votes: 1
.IronSun.
-[X] Surprise Carnival!: A traveling circus was moving through the area, when they broke down due to their haste to escape Behemoth's wrath. Seeing an opportunity, they set up shop! Go to the circus with the Wards; ride the rides, pet the animals, see the sights, play the games!
No. of votes: 5
Peanuckle, GiftOfLove, Jack Folstam, Mannan, Jinnt
-[X] Stunt: You remember that Aisha had been unhappy with her lack of cape knowledge yesterday, and you feel responsibility for helping her adjustment. Since you've already done your research, give her a run down on the capes she'll be meeting in the Philadelphia Protectorate, as well as details of the cape scene in that city. Tell her about the mechanics of how the Wards work, at least what you know, and your personal impression of Chevalier. Check if Vista or Battery have anything to add to this impromptu teaching session.
No. of votes: 2
charysa, Strunkriindiisk
XP:
[X] 4 XP - Bureaucracy â—â—â—‹â—‹â—‹
No. of votes: 28
Jack Folstam, Daemir Silverstreak, charysa, .IronSun., Strunkriindiisk, BobTheNinja, veekie, HyperspatialParasite, mmstar, sun tzu, Teras, Doomlord9, sainen, Scope, FunkyEntropy, abyssalentity, Z000, Anasurimbor, ThornE, 1986ctcel, Skelm, SSanne, Arbit, landcollector, ticktrick, LoreOfClark, Bozwevial, Esbilon
[X] 4 XP - Craft â—â—â—â—â—‹
No. of votes: 29
Jack Folstam, Jinnt, Daemir Silverstreak, charysa, .IronSun., Strunkriindiisk, BobTheNinja, veekie, HyperspatialParasite, mmstar, sun tzu, Teras, Doomlord9, sainen, Scope, FunkyEntropy, abyssalentity, Z000, Anasurimbor, ThornE, 1986ctcel, Skelm, SSanne, Arbit, landcollector, ticktrick, LoreOfClark, Bozwevial, Esbilon\
[X] 4 XP - Medicine â—â—‹â—‹â—‹â—‹
No. of votes: 12
sun tzu, Doomlord9, sainen, Scope, FunkyEntropy, Z000, 1986ctcel, Skelm, Arbit, landcollector, LoreOfClark, Esbilon
[X] 4 XP - Performance â—â—‹â—‹â—‹â—‹
No. of votes: 1
Anasurimbor
EDIT: Now with sorting!
EDIT 2: Up to date to Esbilon below, if nobody changes votes in between.
Vote tally:
##### 3.13
Main Vote:
[X] Write-In: An Amusing Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum?
No. of votes: 18
Peanuckle, GiftOfLove, Jack Folstam, Mannan, Jinnt, sun tzu, Teras, Doomlord9, sainen, FunkyEntropy, Z000, Anasurimbor, 1986ctcel, Skelm, Arbit, landcollector, LoreOfClark, Esbilon
[X] Essence Reservoir-to-Heart: Provide counsel for a member of your caravan, getting to know them better as a mortal as well as evaluating them for Alchemical potential.
No. of votes: 15
Daemir Silverstreak, charysa, .IronSun., Strunkriindiisk, BobTheNinja, DragonBard, veekie, HyperspatialParasite, spudman, mmstar, abyssalentity, ThornE, SSanne, ticktrick, Bozwevial
[X] Free Action: get over our PTSD. (Wits/Willpower + Integrity, Conviction channel)
No. of votes: 14
charysa, Strunkriindiisk, DragonBard, sun tzu, Teras, Doomlord9, sainen, FunkyEntropy, Z000, 1986ctcel, Skelm, landcollector, LoreOfClark, Esbilon
[X] Free Action: get over our PTSD. (Wits + Integrity, Conviction channel)
No. of votes: 2
Daemir Silverstreak, .IronSun.
Stunt:
-[X] Stunt: You've been getting burned too often by poor understanding of your own Charms, and it's making you ineffective. This stops now. You tell the others you're taking a nap, close your eyes, absolutely do not turn SoPA on, and meditate. It's high time to figure yourself out.
No. of votes: 14
Daemir Silverstreak, sun tzu, Teras, Doomlord9, sainen, FunkyEntropy, Z000, Anasurimbor, 1986ctcel, Skelm, Arbit, landcollector, LoreOfClark, Esbilon
-[X] Stunt: Talk to Dennis, find out how he's doing, and what he thinks of things so far. Get his support in covering up for any Clarity induced social mistakes, and see about enlisting his assistance in keeping Aisha sufficiently motivated and amused, especially after their mutual Glenn sessions. The last personal conversation you've had with him involved a prank involving being surrounded by a swarm of bugs, after all, things could stand to be on a more positive note.
No. of votes: 12
.IronSun., BobTheNinja, DragonBard, veekie, HyperspatialParasite, spudman, mmstar, abyssalentity, ThornE, SSanne, ticktrick, Bozwevial
-[X] Stunt: Yeah, Behemoth was scary. Yeah, people died, including our friends. But cowering in fear, having panic attacks? That's letting them win. That's letting our friends down. We can't let that happen, can't let them win. We are better than this. We are Exalted. We are a divine instrument of the Great Maker Autochthon. We stand tall, where others would falter, against the darkness and the forces that seek the destruction of humanity.
No. of votes: 9
charysa, sun tzu, Teras, FunkyEntropy, 1986ctcel, Skelm, landcollector, LoreOfClark, Esbilon
-[X] Yeah, Behemoth was scary. Yeah, people died, including our friends. But cowering in fear, having panic attacks? That's letting them win. That's letting our friends down. We can't let that happen, can't let them win. We are better than this. We are Exalted. We are a divine instrument of the Great Maker Autochthon. We stand tall, where others would falter, against the darkness and the forces that seek the destruction of humanity.
No. of votes: 6
Daemir Silverstreak, Strunkriindiisk, DragonBard, Doomlord9, sainen, Z000
-[x] Yeah, Behemoth was scary. Yeah, people died, including our friends. But cowering in fear, having panic attacks? That's letting them win. That's letting our friends down. We can't let that happen, can't let them win. We are better than this. We are Exalted. We are a divine instrument of the Great Make Autochthon. We stand tall, where others would falter, against the darkness and the forces that seek the destruction of humanity.
No. of votes: 1
.IronSun.
-[X] Surprise Carnival!: A traveling circus was moving through the area, when they broke down due to their haste to escape Behemoth's wrath. Seeing an opportunity, they set up shop! Go to the circus with the Wards; ride the rides, pet the animals, see the sights, play the games!
No. of votes: 5
Peanuckle, GiftOfLove, Jack Folstam, Mannan, Jinnt
-[X] Stunt: You remember that Aisha had been unhappy with her lack of cape knowledge yesterday, and you feel responsibility for helping her adjustment. Since you've already done your research, give her a run down on the capes she'll be meeting in the Philadelphia Protectorate, as well as details of the cape scene in that city. Tell her about the mechanics of how the Wards work, at least what you know, and your personal impression of Chevalier. Check if Vista or Battery have anything to add to this impromptu teaching session.
No. of votes: 2
charysa, Strunkriindiisk
XP:
[X] 4 XP - Bureaucracy â—â—â—‹â—‹â—‹
No. of votes: 28
Jack Folstam, Daemir Silverstreak, charysa, .IronSun., Strunkriindiisk, BobTheNinja, veekie, HyperspatialParasite, mmstar, sun tzu, Teras, Doomlord9, sainen, Scope, FunkyEntropy, abyssalentity, Z000, Anasurimbor, ThornE, 1986ctcel, Skelm, SSanne, Arbit, landcollector, ticktrick, LoreOfClark, Bozwevial, Esbilon
[X] 4 XP - Craft â—â—â—â—â—‹
No. of votes: 29
Jack Folstam, Jinnt, Daemir Silverstreak, charysa, .IronSun., Strunkriindiisk, BobTheNinja, veekie, HyperspatialParasite, mmstar, sun tzu, Teras, Doomlord9, sainen, Scope, FunkyEntropy, abyssalentity, Z000, Anasurimbor, ThornE, 1986ctcel, Skelm, SSanne, Arbit, landcollector, ticktrick, LoreOfClark, Bozwevial, Esbilon\
[X] 4 XP - Medicine â—â—‹â—‹â—‹â—‹
No. of votes: 12
sun tzu, Doomlord9, sainen, Scope, FunkyEntropy, Z000, 1986ctcel, Skelm, Arbit, landcollector, LoreOfClark, Esbilon
[X] 4 XP - Performance â—â—‹â—‹â—‹â—‹
No. of votes: 1
Anasurimbor
EDIT: Now with sorting!
EDIT 2: Up to date to Esbilon below, if nobody changes votes in between.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
We didn't make such a plan. The wording is clear, turn it off, then keep it off. Grom shuffled around the timing, but the intent was clearly turning it off once then keeping it off, not strobing it. I know I did a double take when Taylor turned SoPA back on the first time in the update.Cytokinesis said:
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
I assume it never came up because we only had trouble turning it off because of Clarity and PTSD? I think its controlling mindset has been used by Taylor as a crutch for not having to deal with the PTSD and her father trying to kill her?Cytokinesis said:
I'm going to be disappointed if this:
[] Essence Reservoir-to-Heart: Provide counsel for a member of your caravan, getting to know them better as a mortal as well as evaluating them for Alchemical potential.
- [] Stunt: Talk to Dennis, find out how he's doing, and what he thinks of things so far. Get his support in covering up for any Clarity induced social mistakes, and see about enlisting his assistance in keeping Aisha sufficiently motivated and amused, especially after their mutual Glenn sessions. The last personal conversation you've had with him involved a prank involving being surrounded by a swarm of bugs, after all, things could stand to be on a more positive note.
wins. After our freakout, does anyone really think Dennis is in a mood to talk to us right now?
[] Essence Reservoir-to-Heart: Provide counsel for a member of your caravan, getting to know them better as a mortal as well as evaluating them for Alchemical potential.
- [] Stunt: Talk to Dennis, find out how he's doing, and what he thinks of things so far. Get his support in covering up for any Clarity induced social mistakes, and see about enlisting his assistance in keeping Aisha sufficiently motivated and amused, especially after their mutual Glenn sessions. The last personal conversation you've had with him involved a prank involving being surrounded by a swarm of bugs, after all, things could stand to be on a more positive note.
wins. After our freakout, does anyone really think Dennis is in a mood to talk to us right now?
Ok, sorted the stunts:
Leading main vote is An Amusing Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum?
Leading stunt for An Amusing Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum? is Meditation, runner up is Heart to Heart at 1 vote behind.
Leading stunt(independent) is meditation, runner up is Dennis at 1 vote behind.
E: Tie now with Bozwevial. Recounting.
Leading main vote is An Amusing Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum?
Leading stunt for An Amusing Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum? is Meditation, runner up is Heart to Heart at 1 vote behind.
Leading stunt(independent) is meditation, runner up is Dennis at 1 vote behind.
E: Tie now with Bozwevial. Recounting.
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
We NEED to meditate on our charms before Sopa screws us over any more. Gromweld told us that we'd figure out whats going on with it and possibly the effect on our Clarity if we did.Jinnt said:
Don't get me wrong, the vast majority of the scenes, like the Dough-boy, Fashion shoot/shopping trip, and the toy store ones were absolutely great and funny. But the PTSD Freakout poisoned the whole update. Sorry, Chandra.Chandra Magic said:Dunno anything about that. I do not give rules advice to Gromweld. I specifically stay out of that as I willingly admit my knowledge of Exalted rules is a bit weak. I do not even ask him what/when he rolls dice.
I can only tell what I have inferred from what is going on in the narrative. Which is about the only thing I help him with. Give him ideas for the narrative or try to tell him when I think the narrative is weak.
Which is why I'm sad that this is all that is getting talked about (although, I do realize why), because there are a couple of scenes in there that I gave the idea for, and none of them are being talked about.
That's fair. Just in general, mechanics are supposed to be transparent in the types of games we're playing. It should be even more important that this is true since we don't get many chances to make decisions.Chandra Magic said:
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. When there's a big problem, it overshadows what was done right.I can only tell what I have inferred from what is going on in the narrative. Which is about the only thing I help him with. Give him ideas for the narrative or try to tell him when I think the narrative is weak.
Which is why I'm sad that this is all that is getting talked about (although, I do realize why), because there are a couple of scenes in there that I gave the idea for, and none of them are being talked about.
Like I said earlier, I don't like the direction the story has gone in general due to personal preference, but the writing is very well done so I've stuck with it. There are plenty of nice scenes in the update, but the ones that aren't so nice taint the ones around them because they're the ones that actually need to be discussed.
Fluffy fun things like the van race is a nice touch, but it doesn't save the narrative when the entire premise starts to become annoying.