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Arcus said:
People aren't declaring programmers obsolete over this or pushing for them to be obsoleted, though. If anything they're going to be even more in demand.
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But this is entirely different argument from the original. Nobody is declaring architects or product designers obsolete either. Those two were the example fields that were given that traditional art was supposed to give transferable skills
 
Mandemon said:
Nobody is declaring architects [...] obsolete.
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I'mma just park this one here:
"AI is putting our jobs as architects unquestionably at risk"

Often we are led to believe that rumours of the death of the architect are greatly exaggerated. The unique creative powers of the human mind, so the narrative goes, will endure. I beg to differ, however. There are signs that AI is becoming not only good, but terrifyingly good, to the point that it is beginning to expose our own limitations as human beings, and putting our jobs as architects unquestionably at risk.
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(Note, not trying to get in on any particular side of this arugment, just felt like it was a relevant link to the current conversation. Is just a blog, not like... a statistically significant survey, but still, seemed worth adding here.)
 
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Babblefish said:
I'mma just park this one here:
"AI is putting our jobs as architects unquestionably at risk"

(Note, not trying to get in on any particular side of this arugment, just felt like it was a relevant link to the current conversation. Is just a blog, not like... a statistically significant survey, but still, seemed worth adding here.)
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That reads like someone wrote it through AI. It doesn't actaully list how AI is supposed to replace the architects, just vague "AI is coming". Hilariously, it argues that software developers are also at risk due to AI.

Anyone who has used ChatGPT for code knows that it can only give you short, single-purpose sections or general ideas. You try to ask it to make entire program for you and it's absolute disaster.
 
Mandemon said:
Anyone who has used ChatGPT for code knows that it can only give you short, single-purpose sections or general ideas. You try to ask it to make entire program for you and it's absolute disaster.
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I have a few learning disabilities, and gpt is helping as a writing assistant in a way I would not get from a human. You are right that there are limits and needs a human to fill in and edit actively.

On a better note, it did make working java script programs and taught me how to do it on my own. Though simple test ones like "make a web page were I click a button to change it's color", or "make an interactive story with an angry dragon sinking in quicksand".

(Note: I write my own stories, and I don't want people to put words in my mouth that I have it write for me. It is just rubberducking and letting me ask how certain characters would interact. The story is mine, not ai made. I am just letting the chat no ahead of time since this is a heated one.
I am legit compensating for things I am troubled with, but I am working hard on it.)
 
And that's what I kinda meant, it can help you with simple stuff like "JS code to change CSS" and "story with branching paths". These are pretty simple code wise.

But ask it to make, say, Tetris in JavaScript and it's more likely than not result in garbage code that doesn't work.

On other note, good that it has helped you. Rubberducking is a valid way to produce code that works, and chatGPT can help by pointing out obvious-but-coder-is-suffering-from-code-blindness bugs
 
Mandemon said:
That reads like someone wrote it through AI. It doesn't actaully list how AI is supposed to replace the architects, just vague "AI is coming". Hilariously, it argues that software developers are also at risk due to AI.
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The first paragraph actually was written by AI (dumb overplayed cliche now, I know), so if you are refering to that, then yes, correct.
The rest of it isn't, but hey, I make no promises is a perfect source, if you discount it, fair enough I guess.
 
Some people like sitting down and painting for hours in a carefully controlled canvas. Some people like dunking chickens in red paint and chasing them across a canvas or throwing paint at one. Some people like building a variety of machines that generate semi-random output or detonating gunpowder and looking at how that stains things. Some people like photographing specifically orchestrated moments and some people like taking a camera and catching whatever happens. Some people compose music, some people sit in silence and record the audience reaction to that. Some people film their interactions with bureaucratic systems as they attempt to become stateless out of protest. Some people like feeding and slowly refining prompts to an AI or coding.

All of this can be art. All of this can emphasize process, even if that process has very little, in a great many cases, to connect it to mid-brow hyper commercialized aesthetic reproduction.

To the extent AI art is bad, it has literally nothing to do with philosophy and everything to do with pedagogy and economics where it stands to eliminate ways of building a profile as an artist and of causing a lot of immediate harm to people right now who have stable careers in a capitalist system that this would endanger.

Arcus said:
No, but I would expect people to not try and stab their teachers in the fucking back.
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Err, even Bob "literally a saint" Ross left his primary teacher feeling deeply betrayed and uncredited when Ross got successful.

Like, let's be real, AI art being exceeding awful to its inspirations is the single most authentically human element of the medium.
 
Mandemon said:
On other note, good that it has helped you. Rubberducking is a valid way to produce code that works, and chatGPT can help by pointing out obvious-but-coder-is-suffering-from-code-blindness bugs
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Thank you. I meant like an assistant with writing since I have bad ocd and Asperger's, and it keeps me on track with my schedule because I can't always focus or get caught up with something.
 
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Babblefish said:
The first paragraph actually was written by AI (dumb overplayed cliche now, I know), so if you are refering to that, then yes, correct.
The rest of it isn't, but hey, I make no promises is a perfect source, if you discount it, fair enough I guess.
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I mean rest of it, but my point stands on it, it doesn't really say how AI is threatening architects beyond vague "beware the AI". I mean, I am pretty sure I have seen similar posts but this time about how immigrants are coming to take "our jobs" but never actually listing anything concrete, just vague "beware the unknown!"
 
Arcus said:
You are literally arguing that one can develop artistic skills purely through observation. Which is just not how it works.
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The part of the post you are replying to here is literally stating that an intellectual understanding of art is required in order to optimally use AI art generators, because otherwise it will be garbage in garbage out.

I do acknowledge in the other part of the post that AI facilitates learning through doing, which I also consider an important part of the learning process. It won't be enough on its own though, unless you are willing to tolerate a lot of additional work randomly shuffling various elements around until it "looks right" because you don't have the professional understanding to realize what the 'rightward direction' is.
 
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Looking them up seems they make mostly rhythm games. Which kinda means they don't need to care about visuals on the background.
 
Shadell said:
Some people like sitting down and painting for hours in a carefully controlled canvas. Some people like dunking chickens in red paint and chasing them across a canvas or throwing paint at one. Some people like building a variety of machines that generate semi-random output or detonating gunpowder and looking at how that stains things. Some people like photographing specifically orchestrated moments and some people like taking a camera and catching whatever happens. Some people compose music, some people sit in silence and record the audience reaction to that. Some people film their interactions with bureaucratic systems as they attempt to become stateless out of protest. Some people like feeding and slowly refining prompts to an AI or coding.

All of this can be art. All of this can emphasize process, even if that process has very little, in a great many cases, to connect it to mid-brow hyper commercialized aesthetic reproduction.

To the extent AI art is bad, it has literally nothing to do with philosophy and everything to do with pedagogy and economics where it stands to eliminate ways of building a profile as an artist and of causing a lot of immediate harm to people right now who have stable careers in a capitalist system that this would endanger.
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I would be more willing to accept AI art as it's own distinct way of creating art if it wasn't a tool designed with the specific intent of mimicking the results produced through other methods, with the end goal of making its output indistinguishable.

firefossil said:
because otherwise it will be garbage in garbage out.
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Garbage in, garbage out describes a good portion of what we've been getting, as far as I'm concerned.

You're arguing as if rote learning that teaches people how to operate a system while conferring no real understanding of the underlying principles has never been a problem anywhere for anyone ever. This is not to say that you can't still teach that understanding, of course, but with the way you think this isn't a concern at all it makes me worry.
 
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Arcus said:
I would be more willing to accept AI art as it's own distinct way of creating art if it wasn't a tool designed with the specific intent of mimicking the results produced through other methods, with the end goal of making its output indistinguishable.

Garbage in, garbage out describes a good portion of what we've been getting, as far as I'm concerned.

You're arguing as if rote learning that teaches people how to operate a system while conferring no real understanding of the underlying principles has never been a problem anywhere for anyone ever. This is not to say that you can't still teach that understanding, of course, but with the way you think this isn't a concern at all it makes me worry.
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Making art using digital tools is both obviously a distinct way of creating art from using solely analog tools, but often if not largely intended to mimick the results produced by other methods.

Your argument would be like if someone said because people can touch up photos in photoshop there will be no need or at least no motivation to take good photographs anymore. Sure there will always be people who rely on digital tools to fill in the gaps in their skill rather than act as a force multiplier for their skill. The latter will always exist and they'll be the ones making the great art that outcompetes the rest. The former though will still be free to make semi-decent stuff they never could've before due to lack of time or talent, and that's good too.

Both analog and digital art tools are, at the end of the day, simply a vehicle for turning mental imagination into physical imagery. AI is simply a new and powerful tool.

I will also reiterate that "garbage in, garbage out" is the inevitable byproduct of a bunch of neophytes experimenting with a proof of concept prototype. LORAS, openpose, controlnet, the sorts of tools that raise the quality ceiling for someone with time and talent moreso than someone without those things, are being developed.
 
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Okay so tangential but I've been seeing people talk about cheap artist commissions and like

Where?

This is not me trying to Be Funni, I genuinely am interested in commissioning art for my Elf quest, ideally without having to have Ramen for supper for the next month
 
Voikirium said:
Okay so tangential but I've been seeing people talk about cheap artist commissions and like

Where?

This is not me trying to Be Funni, I genuinely am interested in commissioning art for my Elf quest, ideally without having to have Ramen for supper for the next month
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sketchmob.com

Commission custom art, portrait, painting, cartoon, anime | Sketchmob

Turn your photos into art. Commission a custom portrait from real artists. Hundreds of art styles at great prices: anime, cartoon, caricature and more.
sketchmob.com sketchmob.com
Based on research the prices here are fairly reasonable. A bit on the cheap side, but you probably won't make people mad at you for paying artists too little. Any cheaper and your probably devaluing the artists (again based on my research).
 
Rat King said:
OpenAI really just saying, "You can't make us show what copyrighted material we've used! People might, you know, sue us!"


View: https://twitter.com/robertkneschke/status/1662034837618786304?s=20
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heh, yeah there is definitely copyrighted material in the dataset. I asked Bing Chat's creative mode (GPT4 by another name) to examine a piece of homebrew that I was writing and to, I quote myself; "examine it from the perspective of game designer trying to see if I have missed anything in describing the rule's function."

It proceeded to examine, without calling a web search I'll add, and then give a very detailed response that identified numerous areas aspects of the homebrew rules that I had written that needed clarification. doesn't know DnD rules like the back of it's hand my arse. but damn do I like that chatbot
 
Thellton said:
heh, yeah there is definitely copyrighted material in the dataset. I
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A big part of their problem is that OpenAI has no idea what copyrighted material is even in the dataset. The datasets used in training these massive, modern machines aren't cleaned or verified by humans, it's all zero-shot learning. The AI is the first to see this data and just told to figure it out.

The stories about foreign workers being exposed to traumatizing material to filter it are real of course, but they only handle a limited amount of the data. Firstly to give the AI an example of what it needs to do, or to just confirm that the AI is doing what it was supposed to do.
 
10ebbor10 said:
The stories about foreign workers being exposed to traumatizing material to filter it are real of course, but they only handle a limited amount of the data. Firstly to give the AI an example of what it needs to do, or to just confirm that the AI is doing what it was supposed to do.
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honestly, this is the bigger problem with regards to AI data sets. I don't give a rat's arse if the contents of the dataset are copyrighted, but the fact that there are humans who have had to do manual verification of sections of those datasets, and those sections are some of the most toxic, mentally destructive shit put to text is to not put it lightly very much appalling. especially when the mental health support that was provided ultimately ended up being largely insufficient and very unavailable in comparison to the mental harm that the work inflicted.

I imagine AI models will end up being pushed towards smaller models that are trained on far smaller, curated datasets rather than the dumping ever increasingly large datasets onto the model and hitting blend to create the monolith that is GPT4+. so far, it's already beginning to look like that is the path that LLMs will be going towards too considering the Megabyte paper and LLaMA models in general. Cold comfort at this point for the poor sods who worked on the dataset for GPT4 though.
 
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Voikirium said:
Okay so tangential but I've been seeing people talk about cheap artist commissions and like

Where?

This is not me trying to Be Funni, I genuinely am interested in commissioning art for my Elf quest, ideally without having to have Ramen for supper for the next month
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100 dollars is extremely affordable for a monthly transaction. Like I blow at least two times that on various micro transactions for online service games.
 
Voikirium said:
Okay so tangential but I've been seeing people talk about cheap artist commissions and like

Where?

This is not me trying to Be Funni, I genuinely am interested in commissioning art for my Elf quest, ideally without having to have Ramen for supper for the next month
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I run across a lot of commission offers, but that's dependent on where you hang out and how you populate your feed...

At the risk of going fully off-topic, about how much are you looking to spend on what kind of quality level?
 
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Voikirium said:
Okay so tangential but I've been seeing people talk about cheap artist commissions and like

Where?

This is not me trying to Be Funni, I genuinely am interested in commissioning art for my Elf quest, ideally without having to have Ramen for supper for the next month
Click to expand...
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forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Commission Artist Registry

SV COMMISSION ARTIST REGISTRY This thread provides a registry of all artists on Sufficient Velocity who are interested and able to take commissions, in various fields. This is provided for your ease of reference only. SV does not take responsibility for these postings, mediate disputes, handle...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Could start there and see if there's someone you can work with within your budget.
 
Ralson said:
I run across a lot of commission offers, but that's dependent on where you hang out and how you populate your feed.

Trying to decide if searching for emergency commissions is helpful or predatory, or both. :thonk:

At the risk of going fully off-topic, about how much are you looking to spend on what kind of quality level?
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Like $100 (not entirely unwilling to go even substantially over but around there ideally) for a fullbody+simple background (probably like, the sun or something) but like, it's a High Elf Archmage and well, none of them dress simple.
 
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