Ehn. I'm not impressed. Maybe its because I've ODed on the first few chapters of Eva, maybe because we've been here before, maybe because EVERYONE IS A COLOSSAL JERK OR MUST FEEL GUILTY. I mean, artificial eyes in everyone's skulls, but no arcanotherapy for Misato's chemo-receptors? Jerk Rei just makes me want to punch her. Jerk Ritsuko makes me want to punch her in the stomach. And so on.
Aeon Entelechy Evangelion (ANE rewrite)
- Thread starter EarthScorpion
- Start date
Shockz
You might see it coming...but it'll be too late.
- Location
- At least a mile high
- Pronouns
- no
Eh? Why's everybody hating on Rits? Did I miss something? That's entirely possible, because with the exception of the little fit after the successful 00 test, she isn't coming off as particularly jerkish to me.
Anyway, good read as always. Went a bit overboard with Shinji's little "cliched phrase...well, actually, twist on cliched phrase appropriate to the situation" pattern, but that's the only real problem with the chapter I could find.
I like the changes to Rei's personality compared to ANE. She's more believable as someone who just doesn't get normal people (and has had nobody to explain them to her, 'normal people' not being a group strongly represented in her circle of acquaintances), the way normal people just don't get her. ANE!Rei, IIRC, seemed to go out of her way to be as inhumanly creepy as possible.
Anyway, good read as always. Went a bit overboard with Shinji's little "cliched phrase...well, actually, twist on cliched phrase appropriate to the situation" pattern, but that's the only real problem with the chapter I could find.
I like the changes to Rei's personality compared to ANE. She's more believable as someone who just doesn't get normal people (and has had nobody to explain them to her, 'normal people' not being a group strongly represented in her circle of acquaintances), the way normal people just don't get her. ANE!Rei, IIRC, seemed to go out of her way to be as inhumanly creepy as possible.
Welcome to Evangelion! Have a seat, take a number, someone will be along with a Psychological Problem Dispenser shortly. Of course, maybe that's what you meant with your "maybe because we've been here before" comment.Vehrec said:
Isn't that old news? I mean, he's only been saying that since he pretty much started this story.kingdragon said:
Matsci
Grash itsh griah! Rwar arr rawrrawrarar!
I've noticed that ES's Ritsuko (both ANE & AEE) is very touchy about anything relating to her performance as a scientist, whether it's rivalry with the Engels or showing casual disdain whenever Misato bungles the science. She can't take criticism or getting one-upped.LatwPIAT said:
It's understandable, though, given that her profession--one of the few meaningful things in her life--is slowly breaking her due to both mundane stress and the inevitable Aeon War Syndrome. Shinji slighted her work when he griped about the pilot profiles; Ritsuko firing back was pretty natural. She's under stress similar to what's making Shinji gripe, even if her version isn't as outright traumatic. That she managed to step back, apologize, and recognize that Shinji's complaining was about his own sucky experience and not her issues is probably the most we can expect out of her.
I'm not sure whether to call this giving Ritsuko the benefit of the AWS doubt, or just lowering my expectations of finding any sane, well-adjusted individuals in the Ashcroft frontlines.
She still counts as a snarky jerk by most standards, but this makes it a bit easier to understand why she's being so prickly; she was instinctively defending a mental stress point from further attack.
(I can't believe the thing that finally made me register was the need to provide an apology for Ritsuko's biting Shinji's head off ~_~)
Okay, first, as a general note, that Chapter's now been split into two shorter sections. Well, I say "shorter", the smaller of the two is still 11,000 words, but... meh. It turned out that there was a pretty nice divide anyway. And in general, I will try to keep chapters below 20,000 words... I can't make any promises, though.
On the subject of Rei: Yes, that is a good question. Is it her choice? Do Hounds of Tinadlos try to eat her if she breaks the timeline? Has Gendo told her to act like she's bound by causality except when he explicitly tells her not to? Is she being manipulated by outside forces? Do other precogs, Dune-style, interfere with each other? Does she even have free will? Just throwing out questions here.
On the subject of Major Zero: No, it was accidental. LatwPIAT pointed it out, I changed the name to Sergeant Zero, he said Major sounded better. Officially, in-universe he was just called Zero once, but then Ritsuko noted that he was bossing the other cats around, so she promoted him to "Major" because she thought it was funny.
On the other hand (and someone else mentioned this), yes, she is always going to be weirder and more disturbing than canon!Rei, because this is the Mythos, and that means that... well, it is weird and disturbing.
In fact, guess just where it appeared.
Um. I think.
Welcome to the madhouse, by the way. We're quieter, and less zany than the Nobody Dies thread-asylum, and less utterly pointless tech-wank than the XSGCOM one.
On the subject of Ritsuko: It's a character interpretation thing, I think. I mean, I've always seen Ritsuko as a very flawed woman. She's lacking in sympathy for others, she's selfish, obsessive, she never really questions what they're doing in the same way that Misato does, and she's in too deep... that doesn't stop me liking the character, but I don't pretend that she's a good person by any means. And she happens to be very touchy about any perceived criticism of her work, or any mention of Engel at all.RazorSmile said:
On the subject of Rei: Yes, that is a good question. Is it her choice? Do Hounds of Tinadlos try to eat her if she breaks the timeline? Has Gendo told her to act like she's bound by causality except when he explicitly tells her not to? Is she being manipulated by outside forces? Do other precogs, Dune-style, interfere with each other? Does she even have free will? Just throwing out questions here.
On the subject of Major Zero: No, it was accidental. LatwPIAT pointed it out, I changed the name to Sergeant Zero, he said Major sounded better. Officially, in-universe he was just called Zero once, but then Ritsuko noted that he was bossing the other cats around, so she promoted him to "Major" because she thought it was funny.
Put that down to more experience. I was trying to define her as creepy in ANE; I don't need to force it in the same way here, because I know now that I can let it develop more slowly. Quite simply, she has enough basic assumptions of the human condition different for her that she has to try when she interacts with others; it's one of the more interesting things, in Ctech (which, naturally, they don't look into at all) about Whites compared to other parapsychics because since they're erupted from birth, that means that they've always been used to, say, being able to control fire. And so will have a tendency to assume that anyone can, until they get it drummed into their heads enough. That gets... interesting when you get to the sensory powers.Shockz said:
On the other hand (and someone else mentioned this), yes, she is always going to be weirder and more disturbing than canon!Rei, because this is the Mythos, and that means that... well, it is weird and disturbing.
Yeah, I was going to make a remark like that. But, hey, you have, so I don't need to!Shockz said:
Well, I do. But that isn't relevant here. This isn't far enough east. This is on the frontlines between the NEG and the Migou, in what was the Ukraine. And the entire area; it wasn't like it. This was just the side effects of Harbinger-5 appearing.kingdragon said:
In fact, guess just where it appeared.
Thank you.Kusari said:
Um. I think.
And thank you. That is basically what I've been trying to characterise her as.Version2 said:
Welcome to the madhouse, by the way. We're quieter, and less zany than the Nobody Dies thread-asylum, and less utterly pointless tech-wank than the XSGCOM one.
As it is, it's like "The secrets interior". (Or something like that, translating it back to emphasize how weird it sounds is not easy.)
It should be "Die Inneren Geheimnisse: Die Grundlagen der arkanen Technologie"
Unless you deliberately spelled it that way.
It's meant to be "The Mysteries Within", which... well, it's grammatically inelegant even in English, because it lacks an object (within what?). I will, of course, bow to the expertise of someone who actually knows the language, rather than trying to find appropriate words using Google Translate [1], and then consulting a German dictionary for sentence structure.DakkaMania said:As it is, it's like "The secrets interior". (Or something like that, translating it back to emphasize how weird it sounds is not easy.)
It should be "Die Inneren Geheimnisse: Die Grundlagen der arkanen Technologie"
Unless you deliberately spelled it that way.
[1] Which, incidentally, is much better than babelfish because it gives multiple meanings per word, so you can actually realise that they're using the wrong contextual word.
Shinr
Lurking since December '98
I know that, I was just referring that the dome was basically Miranda without the bodies.Ford Prefect said:
'The Mysteries Within' could also be translated as:EarthScorpion said:It's meant to be "The Mysteries Within", which... well, it's grammatically inelegant even in English, because it lacks an object (within what?). I will, of course, bow to the expertise of someone who actually knows the language, rather than trying to find appropriate words using Google Translate , and then consulting a German dictionary for sentence structure.
Die Geheimnisse des Inneren (which sounds a bit like a book about conspiracies of the Ministry of the Interior}p)
Die Inneren Mysterien (the most direct translation, also: 'Die Mysterien des Inneren' if you want to have a similiar structure as the original, but it can be taken to have multiple meanings. Nothing particularly Lovecraftian.)
Die Verborgenen Geheimnisse/Mysterien (it's more 'hidden mysteries' but it gets the meaning across)
If you need something else translated, just PM me and I will see what I can do.[1]
[1] It would help if you tell me what you want to say. Direct translations often don't get the meaning across
Thanks. "Die Verborgenen Geheimnisse" sounded the best. I've made the change... now to go about finding all the other versions and changing them too.
I missed this specific point last time but... excuse me? Ritsuko explicitly said "there's only so much that arcanotherapy can do". It's not magic... well, it is, but magic isn't magic. It has rules and limits that you don't push it beyond, because it is Lovecraftian magic, hammered into a framework using the minds and sanity of geniuses. Especially when you're also trying to deal with the more serious damage done from state-sickness. So... no, you can't just chant a magic spell and make it all better.Vehrec said:
It's MAGIC that fixes people's BRAINS, so really I fail to see how this argument holds any water. And they have god knows how many cybernetic implants, why not one that restores taste/smell?EarthScorpion said:Thanks. "Die Verborgenen Geheimnisse" sounded the best. I've made the change... now to go about finding all the other versions and changing them too.
I missed this specific point last time but... excuse me? Ritsuko explicitly said "there's only so much that arcanotherapy can do". It's not magic... well, it is, but magic isn't magic. It has rules and limits that you don't push it beyond, because it is Lovecraftian magic, hammered into a framework using the minds and sanity of geniuses. Especially when you're also trying to deal with the more serious damage done from state-sickness. So... no, you can't just chant a magic spell and make it all better.
Really, this is yet another example of your need to tie everything together and leave no loose ends in the search for 'realism.' The problem with that is that loose ends and unexplained things can add to a sense of realism-everything being connected or significant is NOT the default state of reality. You are basically, writing Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina here. If someone likes to dance, this is not necessarily because they took dance lessons or because they have fond memories of their teacher. Maybe they just groove to the beat. If someone eats Habaneros, there is no reason or need to explain away this dietary oddity. It serves no purpose within the greater arc of the story to invent this tale, just like Ice Cream Machine Guy's totally superfluous backstory. Actually, that comparison is very apt-you have just created your own version of Willrow Hood.
Shinr
Lurking since December '98
I think arcanotherapy simply keeps the mind from shattering with duct tape instead of fixing it, with the final results depending on the patient.
As for Misato's lack of senses, the way I understand it, the Leng based state-sickness is a permanent mutation that cannot be reversed, not without very high risks.
As for Misato's lack of senses, the way I understand it, the Leng based state-sickness is a permanent mutation that cannot be reversed, not without very high risks.
Matsci
Grash itsh griah! Rwar arr rawrrawrarar!
A. It's Lovecraft magic. It's not D&D magic. It has laws, same as any scientific discipline. Arcanotherapy has it's limits on what it can repair, same as modern medicine. According to the CTech book, brain damage must healed withing a month after it's taken, or it can't be healed.Vehrec said:
B. This isn't ordinary brain damage. Leng damage is a change in not just the biology, but the chemistry and physics of Misato's brain. They may have tried cybernetics, but you are dealing with something akin to a mutation in the laws of physics.
Shockz
You might see it coming...but it'll be too late.
- Location
- At least a mile high
- Pronouns
- no
Chernobyl? I'm guessing Chernobyl.EarthScorpion said:Well, I do. But that isn't relevant here. This isn't far enough east. This is on the frontlines between the NEG and the Migou, in what was the Ukraine. And the entire area; it wasn't like it. This was just the side effects of Harbinger-5 appearing.
In fact, guess just where it appeared.
Exactly. In both cases. The NEG tries to cover it up (though even that's not the right choice of words; rationalise it, perhaps) with words like "state-sickness" and "commutative degeneration of physiological 1-value normalisation", but a 1930s CoC-style Investigator would call it "he's dying from something after touching that artefact... seeing things that aren't there, raving in his sleep and running a constant fever" and "she's becoming something... else. Something that isn't quite human". This is a Mythos setting. That should never be forgotten. Even as humanity tries to bludgeon the bits closest to them into making sense, they are changed to. And you don't encounter the Mythos and leave the same as you were when you went in, whether you're scarred, scared or other.Matsci said:
And, also, on the subject of cybernetics... note how the stuff in most cases is more along the lines of "we'll remove the eye, and graft in a vat-grown one which has been designed to incorporate the enhancements", rather that a pure mechanical thing. It's a "building it from the ground up to use the changes, then implanting it," rather than a "modifying what is already there". Notably, you can't do that with the brain.
Yeah... the qualia of brain perception are odd. And even having mind-readers doesn't mean you can objectively say what someone else is perceiving, because it's being filtered through your own brain/soul.Mastigo said:Plus, sight is a lot simpler and more ... elegant than taste or smell in a lot of ways. Sight works on a recieving varying levels and frequencies of EM waves, and then converting that to nerve impulses. Taste, on the other hand, involves a lot of finicky chemical receptors of a great number of varieties, all hooked up to an arbitrary sensation. Get it slightly wrong, and the person might end up tasting sugar when actually drinking motor oil.
ES, any reason my unfounded speculation didn't merit an evasive response
Your speculation... oh, yes, at the top of the page. Hmm. Well, certainly, that shitty film exists because I just find the dialogue in the one in Episode 4 hilarious (which is part of the reason this chapter bloated, actually, because I ended up adding in parts of Episode 4). Um... as well as being a bit of a take-that at Avatar, when you realise that, in an era of very good and cheap CGI, being able to say "Yes, all of it, this entire film was done with real life models and props and actors" is actually a selling point. Nevertheless, something happened in Antarctica then, and whether you chose to believe that it's a mythology gag based on the series, or it's an actual key event, is up to you.
Yes, you're right. Rei does have a notably lower synch ratio than would be expected, and it's quite possible that that's responsible. Especially when synching is a soul-based thing, and Rei is sort of smeared out over time.
On the parapsychics thing; not really. They can still be driven crazy by it (and in fact are more prone, because they're a bit crazy anyway). In fact, it might be worse, because they might get obsessive about trying to recreate something that they can't physically do. And, well, a parapsychic trying sorcery can sometimes be a bit like a person trying to fly; most of the time, they just fail, but if they're in a high place, they go splat.
I'm not going to comment on the final point, except to raise that you did neglect the fact that "The Blinded Prince" is a very Nyarlathotepian name. And Ol' Gnarly hasn't made more than cameos so far, yet.
Nope. You're complicating things. What's just been happening in Eastern Europe?Shockz said:
Shinr
Lurking since December '98
Considering the location:EarthScorpion said:In fact, guess just where it appeared.
A) Asuka gets to fight Mot, possibly against orders.
B) The Military gets to fight Mot while Asuka sulks about the missed chance to prove herself.
I'm looking forward to Mot fight considering that you said that giant laser sniper rifles won't be used this time.
Of course, if Mot will be killed in Eastern Europe, this will change the Shinji Rei dynamics considering that a certain scene will be removed.
Hmm, in this case should they be glad that they break instead of that happening? Or is 'break' the technical term for what happens to normal people when they get to see EarthScorpion's take on Cthulhutech better than c!Rei?Mastigo said:
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
The Queen of Eyes and the Blinded Prince... Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth, perhaps?
And I find it interesting that Rei has written on her wall that bit about how the connections to other people are what make us human in the first place, given her issues with doing so. I also wonder how much Gendo being the one who raised her made things even worse on the "normal people can't see the future" thing, given that he's a practicing sorceror. And I wonder if perhaps River was used as her genetic template here instead of Yui. Or alternatively if there was some combination of things going on.
My guess on the location of Harbinger-5 is that it showed up right on top of the facility that housed Unit-02 during Chapter 7, with terminal and mercifully brief consequences for the Migou and Loyalist Nazzadi Elites that took that facility between chapters. Asuka isn't going to get to do anything about it, because Unit-02 was evacuated from there at the end of Chapter 7 and is currently in transit to London-2.
I'm also going to take a wild stab at some of what's up with the Evas in AEE. Where the Engels are based on non-sapient extraterrestrial life (albeit still very intelligent in some cases), the Evas are at least in part built with human genetic material. Quite possibly, some blend of human-form shoggoth machinery and bits derived from Harbinger-1, with a human soul used as a sort of metaphysical glue to bind two very different physical architectures together. LCL in turn allows the living soul of the pilot to bind with the dead-but-living soul in the Eva and the living-but-dead innately soulless body of the Eva.
And I find it interesting that Rei has written on her wall that bit about how the connections to other people are what make us human in the first place, given her issues with doing so. I also wonder how much Gendo being the one who raised her made things even worse on the "normal people can't see the future" thing, given that he's a practicing sorceror. And I wonder if perhaps River was used as her genetic template here instead of Yui. Or alternatively if there was some combination of things going on.
My guess on the location of Harbinger-5 is that it showed up right on top of the facility that housed Unit-02 during Chapter 7, with terminal and mercifully brief consequences for the Migou and Loyalist Nazzadi Elites that took that facility between chapters. Asuka isn't going to get to do anything about it, because Unit-02 was evacuated from there at the end of Chapter 7 and is currently in transit to London-2.
I'm also going to take a wild stab at some of what's up with the Evas in AEE. Where the Engels are based on non-sapient extraterrestrial life (albeit still very intelligent in some cases), the Evas are at least in part built with human genetic material. Quite possibly, some blend of human-form shoggoth machinery and bits derived from Harbinger-1, with a human soul used as a sort of metaphysical glue to bind two very different physical architectures together. LCL in turn allows the living soul of the pilot to bind with the dead-but-living soul in the Eva and the living-but-dead innately soulless body of the Eva.
If TheSandMan's guess about the location ofthe next Harbinger's appearance is correct, it'll be interesting to see how the Migou combat such an entity. I wouldnassume they have protocols for doing so, which would make an interesting, and possibly educational (for the NEG) chapter in the War.
Please. Randomly capitalising words that shouldn't be capitalised is a proud Eva tradition, and let it not be said that, for all I have changed the setting, I have not maintained it.TheFourthman said:
Quite. Of course, the details might shift, but I've always felt this was a vital plot point.Ford Prefect said:
For one, we can't let Asuka miss the chance to stew because she's missed another battle, and Shinji has got another kill. And it's even better when she's just been moved away from the place where the battle was, over to Chicago-2 for the final tests on the Mass Production Model.
Why,Jonen C said:
Jonen C
F.M.D.G.
- Location
- Lincopense, Ostrogothia, Suecia
Words. To. Big. Make. Brain. Grok. Slower. Savvy?EarthScorpion said:Why,preypray?
Meh, not really a big issue, just a slight annoyance with your writing style. One shouldn't read this when tired.
Also, batting someone about the head with a thick book is therapeutic, haven't you heard?
Hah! We'll, let's put it this way; I finally got around to reading Terminal World (which is kinda embarrassing, because I got the second copy ever signed), and I find that Al Reynolds has managed to pre-empt pretty much most of my own creations on r-states, with the zones. Which was kinda annoying; he even had zone-sickness (caused by going into a different zone than the one you're used to) to match the Lovecraft-inspired state-sickness. Hence, I went and stole everything else about the zones for potential use, although r-states don't work like them with the whole technolgical lock-off thing, so they're different in that.Willbyr76 said:
Hence, Misato's ended up with a little bit of Merkova in her, and the only reason she doesn't have more, is that Merkova and her are pretty similar characters anyway.
LatwPIAT says my Migou remind him of the Conjoiners.Mastigo said:
He says my Elder Things remind him of the Inhbitors.
Although... the parapsychic thing isn't quite as good as you think, because part of the reason that parapsychics are powerful, but limited compared to sorcerers is that they're broken, stuck, and... well, it might be compared the soul material cannibalising itself to get one function working really well, at a cost to overall functionality. A properly functioning Shoggoth wouldn't do it, but a properly functioning one isn't human. But, yes, a high r-state combat Shoggoth makes the optimal choice at any given point. You know how the humans in Exultant end up with CTC computers, which means the ship makes the optimal tactical choice at any given moment. The Shoggoth skips over the "making the little robots do short CTCs" bit of that.