Recovering South Belka is going to be a very long term goal, given that it is currently under the control of Osea, a nation that still has a strong military force, a good amount of aces and quite a few allies, things which make it dangerous to attempt to reclaim South Belka/North Osea in any overt and violent ways.
Exactly. My thoughts are to wage a propaganda war that has the South Belkans wanting to re-unite with Belka in a referendum. It will be a long term effort, on that I agree with you. The plan requires a fair bit of economic work to make it seem attractive and will need for some subtle undermining of Osea's reputation to come to fruition. Splitting Osea between a Hawk congress and a Dove president seems like a good first step. Not a disaster if it fails, but certainly worth the attempt.
Recovering South Belka is going to be a very long term goal, given that it is currently under the control of Osea, a nation that still has a strong military force, a good amount of aces and quite a few allies, things which make it dangerous to attempt to reclaim South Belka/North Osea in any overt and violent ways.
The is what espionage is for. You can set up a espionage ring that works to create a grass roots movement in South Belka to return to their home of origin. Osea cannot do anything about it since they are meant to be all about freedom. Their failures and hawks have not gotten them any friends. And they don't have allies actually they lost those during the lighthouse wars because of what they did. South Belka is actually not as hard to get back as you think. Ustio is the hardest with Gebet being the easiet. South Belka is between the two. And with SOuth Belka heavily supporting the Doves the Hawks will look for way to get rid of them.
In other news @Adventwolf what are your thoughts on this video? It has been shaping some of my thinking but I don't want to assume about your interpretation of the setting.
I prefer the Belka did noting wrong video which while comedy doesn't actually lie about anything that is brought up. But yes the way Belka went to war was always going to fail. Most of the issues don't apply to us anymore as even the Old Belkans understand modern doctrine for war. They just think that getting troops trained to as high a level as possible is just as important and they are right hence the whole reason you do training to increase the skills of your forces.
I've been looking at our air force and thinking about options. Given the bonus the COFFIN system gives I am inclined to seriously consider looking to develop and implement the technology over the next few turns. I think it will give a decent boost to performance without making our massive military budget eat much more of our economy.
Here is a summary of the aircraft we are currently using.
Not COFFIN compatible
Su-34: CAS
F-14D Super Tomcat: Interceptor
MiG-31B: Interceptor
MiG-29S: Air Superiority (This doesn't appear on the Air Craft Produced list, but the MiG-29A does)
A bit of a dogs breakfast there. Two different Interceptors and two different Multirole aircraft. I'd love to cut out redundant designs and focus on fewer different airframes.
@Adventwolf
1 - Are their gameplay differences between aircraft of the same tier or should we just choose the fighters we like best? Would standardizing on a single aircraft for each role/tech level save on costs or is that hand-waved?
2 - Can you list what role each fighter can serve in the informational post? I can guess, but I don't want to accidentally turn our Interceptor squadron into a CAS. This is particularly important for the fictional aircraft.
3 - Are Current and Current/COFFIN Compatible different tech levels for changing equipment? EX - Would it take an action to replace the MIG-29s with MiG-35D Super Fulcrum or the F-14Ds and MiG-31Bs with... huh. I'm not sure if any of the options there are interceptors. They all seem to be Air Superiority or Multi-role (or Naval). Anyway a COFFIN Compatible interceptor?
4 - What is the downside of changing aircraft used by a unit? Will they lose XP?
A bit of a dogs breakfast there. Two different Interceptors and two different Multirole aircraft. I'd love to cut out redundant designs and focus on fewer different airframes.
1 - Are their gameplay differences between aircraft of the same tier or should we just choose the fighters we like best? Would standardizing on a single aircraft for each role/tech level save on costs or is that hand-waved?
2 - Can you list what role each fighter can serve in the informational post? I can guess, but I don't want to accidentally turn our Interceptor squadron into a CAS. This is particularly important for the fictional aircraft.
3 - Are Current and Current/COFFIN Compatible different tech levels for changing equipment? EX - Would it take an action to replace the MIG-29s with MiG-35D Super Fulcrum or the F-14Ds and MiG-31Bs with... huh. I'm not sure if any of the options there are interceptors. They all seem to be Air Superiority or Multi-role (or Naval). Anyway a COFFIN Compatible interceptor?
4 - What is the downside of changing aircraft used by a unit? Will they lose XP?
1. No there isn't aside from their role of attacker, fighter, or multirole.
2. Attacker is the only difference for role. Fighter works best for interceptors and attackers work best for CAS. And multi-role does both well enough.
3. They are the same tech though the F-14 should have been in the compatible list. The difference is that the non compatible ones have newer models for replacement in their roles in the same tech level. And like I said if they are in the same tech level they can be changed without an issue or action so long as you don't do it too often.
4. There is no downside for same tech level so long as it isn't being changed all the time every turn.
could we create a new air doctine because I'm very much in favor of a doctrine where we have highly advanced planes for our pilots supported by drone swarms
could we create a new air doctine because I'm very much in favor of a doctrine where we have highly advanced planes for our pilots supported by drone swarms
Read the information tab. Drones stay at Green and don't gain experience. The drones you have are much worse than what the Eruseans had because you lack the combat data they had.
You could do that but you would be losing alot more planes and have to replace them far more often in a war.
could we create a new air doctine because I'm very much in favor of a doctrine where we have highly advanced planes for our pilots supported by drone swarms
The other problem is that the drones cost just as much to raise as other units, and cost almost as much to maintain. So while it would mean less of our pilots die then sending in the flights of green pilots, it will cost our industry just as much.
Once we start getting into super planes we might try something like having each manned plane have a couple of UAVs to support it, as seen in AC7. Not a question for right now though.
The other problem is that the drones cost just as much to raise as other units, and cost almost as much to maintain. So while it would mean less of our pilots die then sending in the flights of green pilots, it will cost our industry just as much.
Once we start getting into super planes we might try something like having each manned plane have a couple of UAVs to support it, as seen in AC7. Not a question for right now though.
Taking military research to improve drone tech is a thing. At its most basic level, it would unlock the ability to make every plane drone capable instead of the F/A-18 and Su-35S only. Plus it would also allow for drone data to be gathered for analysis and improvement. ZOE drones are the only ones that can grow in skills, but you do have a few aces to study from to improve basic drone fighters. You don't need super planes to make them work.
Alright, It seems that things have slowed down so I will close the vote for now. Internal won this one. Budget allocation will be up in a few days either this weekend or early next week.
Adhoc vote count started by Adventwolf on May 26, 2022 at 3:45 PM, finished with 55 posts and 6 votes.
Idea: Make a superweapon project, very important and very secretive (but not quite so secretive that whoever we're at war with doesn't find out). Also build a very big and important-looking (but ultimately cheap and expendable) central installation, a giant railgun or rocket gantry maybe. When it inevitably gets attacked by those aces, reveal that they were actually developing next-gen aa (possibly hybrid aa/abm), instead of strategic weaponry - railgun aa instead of railgun artillery, laser aa instead of orbital doom lasers, SAMs instead of MRBMs, etc.
Also, looking at the Belkan Military info I can't help noticing that both our navy and our naval strike planes are pretty anemic, we might want to fix that. Admittedly, our interests are mostly located at our land borders, but we want at the very least the ability to defend our own coastline.
Idea: Make a superweapon project, very important and very secretive (but not quite so secretive that whoever we're at war with doesn't find out). Also build a very big and important-looking (but ultimately cheap and expendable) central installation, a giant railgun or rocket gantry maybe. When it inevitably gets attacked by those aces, reveal that they were actually developing next-gen aa (possibly hybrid aa/abm), instead of strategic weaponry - railgun aa instead of railgun artillery, laser aa instead of orbital doom lasers, SAMs instead of MRBMs, etc.
Also, looking at the Belkan Military info I can't help noticing that both our navy and our naval strike planes are pretty anemic, we might want to fix that. Admittedly, our interests are mostly located at our land borders, but we want at the very least the ability to defend our own coastline.
That is a possibility but it is also very wasteful since the distraction is still going to be very expensive. Also yes the Navy is obsolete but the Naval wing is not bad at all it is on the same tech level as everyone else except the experimental squadron.
Real talk is if the navy even something we should worry about too much when all it would be used for is preventing naval invasions and the like. I mean we should at a minimum get our naval branch up to snuff. Since Belka isn't focused on power projection worldwide like the Osean scum.
That is a possibility but it is also very wasteful since the distraction is still going to be very expensive. Also yes the Navy is obsolete but the Naval wing is not bad at all it is on the same tech level as everyone else except the experimental squadron.
Expensive how? All it is is a hollow shell that looks convincing enough for high-altitude recon. I'd assume that's well within budget for a military RnD program.
Regarding the Naval Wing, it's more that I expected it to be bigger. At least a full Air Group.
Another question: Would it be possible to make our Instructor Ace the head of a trainer/reserve unit? So we don't lose experience if we take losses (both germany and japan had this problem in WWII), and possibly even spread her bonus to our entire air force by rotating pilots through it.
Does experience decay over time?
Real talk is if the navy even something we should worry about too much when all it would be used for is preventing naval invasions and the like. I mean we should at a minimum get our naval branch up to snuff. Since Belka isn't focused on power projection worldwide like the Osean scum.
You're right of course, as I pointed out myself an offensive navy is not very useful when all our interests are right next to us. But at the very least we want to keep the Osean navy away from our shores. Given that it is presumably both huge and capable due to said global power projection, that's not going to be easy.
Ideally we'd also want to prevent it from blockading our merchant shipping - wars are expensive enough already without letting your income get choked, and presumably we need to import quite a few strategic materials too to keep our industry running. We'll also want to court Gebet and Wielvakia to act as an entrepot, importing stuff for us and then shipping it via the land route like the Netherlands initially did for Germany in WWI, but it'd be best to not rely solely on that. Diplomatic pressure could force them to stop, or they could jack up the prices higer than we want.
If we can additionally send out a few raiders in order to attack Osean shipping and do missile/commando strikes on their coastline, doing damage while forcing them to keep back forces for defense that would otherwise join the frontlines, that'd be useful too but it's not essential. However, their coastline is huge enough that even a very modest and cautious submarine-fleet-in-being would force them to pay attention.
If I understand correctly upgrading current fighters or replacing them with F22s and F35s would have the same net effect. As we would need to do a research project for the COFFIN system, is there any advantage to it over just using more advanced fighters?
Now I'm thinking training our current pilots to a higher standard is going to be the best way to improve their performance without increasing our rather significant maintenance budget. Spending almost a third of our budget on maintenance is high. If I thought we could get away with it I'd actually like to downsize the military but I somehow suspect we are going to need it very soon.
I don't think we are going to be focusing on military adventures off the continent anytime soon. With our relatively small coastline and the fact that our nearest neighbor has a massively stronger Navy than we do I don't see how we can challenge them without crippling the economy. The Belkan high seas fleet is just not going to be able to take on the Osean Grand fleet. If we want to defend our coasts I'd rather raise another unit of naval bombers.
This all leads us back to the fact that we are spending a huge amount on maintenance. The Belkan war started because Belka entered into an economic crisis with excessive military spending. Expanding the military seems unwise unless we have a very clear and present danger of imminent invasion.
If I understand correctly upgrading current fighters or replacing them with F22s and F35s would have the same net effect. As we would need to do a research project for the COFFIN system, is there any advantage to it over just using more advanced fighters?
Yes it would and no it is not a research project to get COFFIN onto an aircraft it is a research action to get COFFIN onto every single aircraft model you have that doesn't already have it. COFFIN aircraft perform better than normal ones because everything about the units is upgraded to a new standard.
Now I'm thinking training our current pilots to a higher standard is going to be the best way to improve their performance without increasing our rather significant maintenance budget. Spending almost a third of our budget on maintenance is high. If I thought we could get away with it I'd actually like to downsize the military but I somehow suspect we are going to need it very soon.
You can train pilots but that cost MP and it gets more expensive the more XP the units already have. And no your upkeep is not maintenance it is literally upkeep as in everything needed to keep the unit at the current level they are. That is fuel, parts, new aircraft, training, patrols, and mission. Maineantence is only one part of upkeep not all of it. And downsizing your units will only get them killed off because they don't have the numbers to absorb losses.
This all leads us back to the fact that we are spending a huge amount on maintenance. The Belkan war started because Belka entered into an economic crisis with excessive military spending. Expanding the military seems unwise unless we have a very clear and present danger of imminent invasion.
No the Belkan war started because the superpowers of the world decided to go nuke and ICBM crazy. The economic crisis was started by Osean interference and agitation in the eastern territories with the aim to cause a collapse of belka. When your neighbor is hostile to you and is building a bunch of WMD that they are just as likely to use on you then you have no choice but to spend on your military. The problem was that Belka spent the money on the wrong things. Excalibur was fine but the other superweapons along with unfocused military expansion was the problem and even then it was only the final nail of Osea tricking Belka with the Great Lakes region that tipped things over into free fall.
Expensive how? All it is is a hollow shell that looks convincing enough for high-altitude recon. I'd assume that's well within budget for a military RnD program.
Expensive because there is no such thing as a hollow shell of a superweapon. Such things are not just some random building in the middle of nowhere. All that looks like is at best a new base or supply depot noting that will draw any real amount of attention.
Another question: Would it be possible to make our Instructor Ace the head of a trainer/reserve unit? So we don't lose experience if we take losses (both germany and japan had this problem in WWII), and possibly even spread her bonus to our entire air force by rotating pilots through it.
Does experience decay over time?
That is already what he is doing. He have no assignment to a battle unit because he is an instructor. And no you cannot increase XP that way the only way to increase a unit's XP is through combat or training exercises. And unless a unit is completely wiped out experience will not be an issue. XP does not decay unless you don't have enough MP for upkeep.
You're right of course, as I pointed out myself an offensive navy is not very useful when all our interests are right next to us. But at the very least we want to keep the Osean navy away from our shores. Given that it is presumably both huge and capable due to said global power projection, that's not going to be easy.
Ideally we'd also want to prevent it from blockading our merchant shipping - wars are expensive enough already without letting your income get choked, and presumably we need to import quite a few strategic materials too to keep our industry running. We'll also want to court Gebet and Wielvakia to act as an entrepot, importing stuff for us and then shipping it via the land route like the Netherlands initially did for Germany in WWI, but it'd be best to not rely solely on that. Diplomatic pressure could force them to stop, or they could jack up the prices higer than we want.
If we can additionally send out a few raiders in order to attack Osean shipping and do missile/commando strikes on their coastline, doing damage while forcing them to keep back forces for defense that would otherwise join the frontlines, that'd be useful too but it's not essential. However, their coastline is huge enough that even a very modest and cautious submarine-fleet-in-being would force them to pay attention.
Your navy is kept where it is because that is where your ports are at. The Osean Navy wouldn't go to your northern shore they have carriers that can be in Oured Bay, the Great Lakes, or the Bennion Sea which allows them to reach you. The osean fleet also took a massive beating in the Lighthouse war and they are trying to repair it right now. Osea lost a massive amount of power they are no longer the ultimate superpower in strangereal which is why this entire thing is possible.
Gebet is landlocked and Wielvakia is away from us and has no reason to do anything for us. We import and export a lot. We aren't in any danger from a blockade as we have everything we need in Belka.
You can train pilots but that cost MP and it gets more expensive the more XP the units already have. And no your upkeep is not maintenance it is literally upkeep as in everything needed to keep the unit at the current level they are. That is fuel, parts, new aircraft, training, patrols, and mission. Maineantence is only one part of upkeep not all of it. And downsizing your units will only get them killed off because they don't have the numbers to absorb losses.
I was using maintenance as a synonym for upkeep. As in money being spent to maintain our military at it's present level, preventing decay, but not expanding it's capabilities.
Training pilots will cost MP, but it is an one time cost. Upgrading the tech level of our units or increasing the size is both an upfront and an ongoing cost.
Assuming I am understanding things correctly for one of our current air force groups it would cost 2mp to upgrade from current to cutting edge. Costs 1mp/turn extra upkeep.
Gives +15 to rolls.
It would cost 4mp to upgrade from current to next gen. Costs 2mp/turn extra upkeep.
Gives +30 to rolls.
The training in the previous incarnation of the quest cost 11mp and gave +6xp. Not quite enough to level up but close. Going from Vet to Elite gives +15 to rolls. No upkeep cost increase.
So training costs more upfront but gives us a good benefit without increasing long term costs. The training also gives us the chance of getting another Ace. If the Aurelia-Leasath war was anything to judge by Aces are very nice to have. Fitting for an Ace Combat game.
Given that you said 'XP does not decay unless you don't have enough MP for upkeep' training up the units seems like a good option to me. Those per-turn costs are what concern me.
I recognize that downsizing the military would result is massive losses if a war was to break out. That's why I rejected the idea. I was just wishing that we could cut military spending. Spending about 30% of your budget on upkeep is a huge amount of money. When it comes to spending I lean Dove but recognize that if you don't spend on defense you will regret it.
Pending the results, I'm thinking that next turn spending money of training our air force sounds like a good idea. Take advantage of the training ace.
Especially at this point in Ace Combat both with the Hawks on the rise in Osea and the fact that we are basically the world's bogyman due to said Belkan War. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised even if we demilitarized completely Osea would then conquer us ,under the Hawks at least, in order to avoid another Grey man Incident.
Osea conquering us if we demilitarized would be the best case scenario I think. I admit thinking about the expressions on the qm's face should we do that is making me chuckle a little.
Training last time was due to high rolls and having the ace doing the job. It is not going to result in the same outcome. And again training gets more expensive everytime it is taken.
Update is at the beta once it is reviewed it will be posted.
"Good evening everyone, what is new on the agenda for today? Is there any development on the Osea or eastern front that needs addressing?" The speaker said addressing the assembled men and women.
The first to speak was an MP for the leading coalition. "The gains from our reconstruction efforts in Usea have started to come in sir. The surprising amount of speed that Anfang shipping and freight moved our resources and materials has pushed us far ahead of schedule. I believe it would be imperative to use them in more of our projects and to invest in expanding their reach even further. ASF is already the largest transportation company in Nord Belka so I think our investment will make it one of the largest in Eastern Osea." Then the member sat down and waited for their colleagues to continue.
After that, another industrialist MP stood up to address the parliament. "With the reconstruction of Usea nearing completion, we will need to start shifting our efforts to South Osea. Already the relations and economic benefits from Usea are repaying the investments made by Gebet and ourselves. If similar results come from South Osea we have a chance to increase our economic power to new heights." The speaker took this moment to interject.
"Yes, speaking of economic power what are the projections for the new development plans that were proposed? They will take two years to fully be implemented correct?"
"That is the timetable that is expected sir, but our required investments can be allocated earlier and allowed to run on their own the same as with the last plan or we can spread the cost over the years. As for projections assuming the projects fall within the parameters then there should be a 12% increase over current numbers. Most of that will come from expanding our trade ports and logistics facilities with ASF getting investments to set up and expand connections between our ports and Gebet to provide access to the sea for our landlocked "neighbor". The other major portion of the expansions will be centered on educational upgrades both secondary schooling and technical schooling to improve productivity." With that, the Industrialists finished their part of the briefing.
Next came a New Belkan MP to speak. "Like my colleague said, we have seen major gains from the actions we have taken the last couple of years. The biggest is in the public relations department, especially with Usea and South Osea. Gebet and even Recta and Ustio have become less hostile and more inclined to hear us out compared to even before the so-called "Grey Men papers". Many of the nations in the western parts of Usea have started to reach out for closer ties and trade relations. Once the reconstruction efforts are completed the embassies and trade routes will begin to be more evident. If we continue to build this kind of support we will be better able to deal with anything Osea might try short of war."
At that, the head of the Old Belkan party decides to speak "Osea is not in any position at the moment to launch a war. They may still have one of the largest militaries left on the continent but it is stretched thin or hoarded. Will these embassies and trade be enough to support an expansion?"
"Combined with the recently completed development plan it should be enough for 4 new division-sized units to be maintained with our current equipment. Maybe even enough for them to be upgraded to cutting-edge equipment. Though it might be better for slightly smaller unit sizes to allow for more robust training." Answered the New Belkan which seemed to satisfy the Old Belkan enough as he gave a nod.
With that done the session moved on to other parts of the discussion that were needed to run a government.
Osea
All over Osea members of the Bureau of Civic Protection and their contacts began looking for leads and information on the leading Hawks both in the congress and the Presidental race. Media outlet sources are cultivated in order to disseminate any scandals or stories that would lower support for the Hawks in Osea.
A more passive effort was also being taken by having those that work for or are friendly with the BCP simply voice displeasure or criticism for the Hawk party to as many people as possible in their communities. This method is unlikely to have any major effect on the current race but has the potential to weaken the Hawk party by slowly eroding their support base from the inside out.
In the campaign offices for the Doves, those that have been contacted by Belkan agents have been given some of the information discreetly that can be verified by others in order to improve the chances of the Doves in debates and PR for their run at the executive branch. All these efforts and more are done through proxies or non Belkan assets in order to keep trails that could lead back to the Belkan government.
The results of the actions might be enough to ensure a Dove leader and with a Hawk congress deadlock is likely to slow down responses which is exactly what is wanted to buy more time for Belka to grow.
[]Plan: Political Games - Internal
-[] Hoffnung Industrial Engineering reconstruction work 177/200 CP Must complete by end of 2021 (1 turn
-[] Aurelia/Leasath Hoffnung Industrial Engineering reconstruction work 0/100 CP Must be completed by the end of 2023 (5 Turns)
-[] Influence State (Covertly) Supporting the Doves in Osea - Try to dig up any dirt on the Hawks and make sure it gets into the hands of the media. Be more concerned with making sure nothing is tied back to us then maximizing effectiveness. A Dove president would be good, but not at the cost of drawing attention to Belka for meddling in an election.
–[] Economic Development (Increasing available EP) Mid Term Path
You have 160 EP
49 have been converted to MP and spent on upkeep
You have 111 EP to spend
Current Bonuses:
CP count as 1.25 when applied to Economic Development
CP & MP count as 1.25 when applied to Espionage and Black Ops actions
Chosen Actions:
[] Hoffnung Industrial Engineering reconstruction work 177/200 CP Must complete by end of 2021 (1 turn)
[] Aurelia/Leasath Hoffnung Industrial Engineering reconstruction work 0/100 CP Must be completed by the end of 2023 (5 Turns)
[] Medium-Term Economic Development 0/70 CP Must spend 4 turns on action 0/4
[] Political Manoeuvring in Osea Supporting the Doves in Osea 0/? CP
AN: Alright here is the next part of the turn discuss what you want to do and also remember there are other factors in play besides your own actions. Think about what you want for the future turns as well.
