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A Simple Transaction I

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Rihaku said:
It looks like Oblique Means is currently ahead, but so is purchasing Undying Vanguard... in the event that you have to spend Arete to extract value from that crucially spent hour, that could be quite an anti-synergistic combination!
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Hm, I want to say that most non-advancement Arete spending opportunities aren't especially punishing, but after seeing Shard, that's not always true. And in this case, Arete could be the determinant between Gisena rising to meet the unfair expectation of banging out an artifact in an hour or not. But UV is good, if we need more Arete we can mine it! As always... ehehe. :oops: Why do we do this to ourselves? Oh, right, loot and shines and friendship and fun.
 
Fair enough, I suppose, and without another Stance to by, our lack of picks would indicate we couldn't buy anything anyway.
 
[X] Oblique Means

After some reflection, I've been swayed to change my vote, mainly for the reasons already brought up by the discussion.
- Cut Through is useful for when circumstances are untenable and force us to simply power through. I don't believe this situation qualifies and even if it does, it still risks sacrificing Versh if we call the LP's bluff.
- Hunger believes in his convictions and made an obligation to Nilfel when he took both Artifacts of the Mirellyian royalty. We owe both Versh and Adorie to at least explore every option possible before directly committing to one course of action fully.
- One option that doesn't unduly risk Versh OR recklessly fall into a trap would be Shock & Awe, yet I am quite leery about negotiating with the LP when I am sure he will be cunning enough to realize how fast we can outpace him. And beyond that, any deals we make compromises the core obligation that Hunger took when he decided to support the Royalist Faction. He'll be acting pragmatically true, but it was the easiest way out.
- Oblique Means: Stall and explore further options to leverage, the one path that doesn't commit to an extreme, while still weaking the LP's influence. I've especially come around to the idea of spending Arete on the Astral Summon to introduce a new Variable to compensate for our disadvantaged position.

Wrt buying Undying Vanguard, I think it's quite clear a majority of the voters picked that to pair with the 'Rescue Versh' option, so it feels a tad unfair if that option won, since it's implied to be in conjunction as well as being a Write-In.
Perhaps if Oblique Means wins, we can put off any Arete expenditures and combine it with a Build Vote for next update? Narratively, only an hour will have gone by and Hunger will be spending that time mostly Diplomancing, so there wouldn't be an opportunity for it to activate/show up anyways, at least not likely.
 
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Imagine having enough Arete to force feed Gisena into becoming a Renaissance Woman come the 25th hour of this hostage situation.

Poor bby Versch.

Lord Protector's head in a basket or bust.
 
Kind of agree with Resonant here. I understand buying Vanguard if we go with Rescue Versch (much as I would despair at us walking straight into a trap as if we hadn't learned anything from Coldbriar), but doing so while simultaneously taking the option that doesn't really endanger them and would likely require additional Arete expenditure to ensure success?..

That sounds suspiciously like shooting ourselves in the foot.
 
Unelemental said:
Kind of agree with Resonant here. I understand buying Vanguard if we go with Rescue Versch (much as I would despair at us walking straight into a trap as if we hadn't learned anything from Coldbriar), but doing so while simultaneously taking the option that doesn't really endanger them and would likely require additional Arete expenditure to ensure success?..

That sounds suspiciously like shooting ourselves in the foot.
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We are, at least, not walking into a trap (for good reason ofc) with Oblique Means, but giving even a little initiative to LP is scary, and the thing I'm (second) most scared of is (non-Versch) party members dying.

Although sincerely believe this, I must also disclose my bias because I want UV regardless of the immediate situation.
 
Man, at this rate I kind of just want Vanguard so we don't have to do this song and dance every time it's offered. You can't even say it's useless right now, only arguably suboptimal; and I know I would be much more willing to risk our companions with that sort of assurance available.
 
Resonant said:
Wrt buying Undying Vanguard, I think it's quite clear a majority of the voters picked that to pair with the 'Rescue Versh' option, so it feels a tad unfair if that option won, since it's implied to be in conjunction as well as being a Write-In.
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In my mind, UV was paired with Take Adorie. Even in Oblique Methods, Adorie is still in danger of eating a scry-and-die spell or sneak attack. Given the Royalists' ineptitude, can we count on her security detail to filter out and intercept every single assassination attempt? In the wake of a disastrous battle, her forces might not have full faith in her leadership.

UV hedges against betrayal and keeps her safe while we are busy with summoning an Astral Denizen. (The summoned creature might be dangerous, as well!)

The benefits of UV scale to loyalty, so I think she can get almost the full boost if we take the correct pairing of options. Adorie starts with 5 relationship +s by default. Oblique Means & Take Adorie give a total of 3 relationship +s (unless we mess up). That adds up to +8 relationship! She'd be just as loyal as the teenagers. Plus, Hunger's charisma and 11th-hour rescue during the battle could have improved her loyalty further (even without a mechanically explicit +Adorie bonus).
 
Yes, but the Lord Protector has proven that we're risking our party members simply by opposing him. The question is how we handle that risk. Undying Vanguard will give them certain protection, but does that advancement protect them from any esoteric vectors he will try? No, it only effectively gives them Protection, Constitution and regeneration. Meanwhile failing this action represents exposing everyone to greater risks too, from where I am sitting. Since with Oblique Means they will be staying close to ourselves and we'll be protecting them personally, why would we increase the chances of failure for an advancement that isn't really needed right now?
 
Well, I suppose buying Undying Vanguard simply comes down to whether or not you'd rather mitigate the risk of threats for Adorie, albeit being smaller since we picked Oblique Means, or ensure we have enough Arete to spend for optimal Purchases to maximize chances of success for the whole operation.

I much prefer the latter, also taking into account unlocking Adorie's buried Potential requires some form of difficulty to overcome, so it's not as if her being of some danger is all that bad, when Hunger and Gisena are both there to handle anything that comes.
 
We need to get Vanguard at some point so Aobaru doesn't die, now seems as good a time as any.
 
I don't really want to harp on this point, so I'll avoid saying more on this topic than this, but no, now is really not a good time. When we have the Arete to spare and don't need it for anything else is a good time, right now we don't have much Arete and are about to spend it on avoiding further losses. Undying Vanguard is a knee-jerk reaction, an understandable one after what happened, but I don't want this missing Arete to be the difference between defeating the Lord Protector or imperiling everyone further. Vanguard isn't going to help if we don't succeed here.
 
I wonder, if we pick up Iridescence after Undying Vanguard, does the expanded remit of our protection apply to the protection we give our party members?
 
Undying Vanguard isn't a knee jerk reaction for me so much as a vote I just want to put to bed. It's been in lukewarm contention half a dozen times and it's always something that can be pushed back.

It's like medicine, it doesn't taste great going down but you have to get it eventually. It's been prescribed for months now and with the whole tower abduction + solid relationship on everyone it's very good at doing what it does.
 
[X] Shock & Reason

[X] Take Adorie

Resume Versch is Bad Civilization.

Lawd how do we get Round Table to proc again? Truly that would solve many Companion death related problemosss :(
 
Callidus said:
[X] Shock & Reason

[X] Take Adorie

Resume Versch is Bad Civilization.

Lawd how do we get Round Table to proc again? Truly that would solve many Companion death related problemosss :(
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We were explicitly told that UV is one of the prerequisites, and that there were other requirements that were being ignored.

With "Never Better" rare sword advancements will be more common, so companions is somewhat more likely. I'd argue that it's considerably more likely if we have UV already purchased. (If only because the cost would be 25 Arete, instead of 30.)

Edit for accuracy: Turns out "Never Better" only applies to rare Praxis advancements so it does not actually improve our chances at Companions :\
 
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I was working on a tactics post, but since this is more of a "cool points" tactic (and I was excited) I'll post it separately.
Rihaku said:
Allows the Evening Sky to disguise its appearance, taking on the semblance of the morning or noonday sky, or even of an ordinary cloak - much as it may despise such diminishment.
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Rihaku said:
The Opalescent Tower itself could be seen faintly on the horizon, a shimmering speck of sky-folded stone plunging upwards as if in challenge to the Walls themselves.
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We need to transform the cloak to look like the Tower did! It's such a good flex. Yes, I am now wearing Nilfel's Tower, so listen to your Princess, the woman right next to me who allowed this.
 
Vote Change

Thanks @Zampano for the info I didn't know that! Must've come up on a page I skimmed or something.

[X] Shock & Reason

[X] Take Adorie

[X] Buy Undying Vanguard
 
Callidus said:
Vote Change

Thanks @Zampano for the info I didn't know that! Must've come up on a page I skimmed or something.

[X] Shock & Reason

[X] Take Adorie

[X] Buy Undying Vanguard
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Oh no, I should've included a citation! I got an important detail wrong: the bonus for "Never Better" is explicitly applied to rare Praxis advancements. Therefore the Companions blurb is probably unaffected by our reaction to OaF:
From the Never Better update said:
*Hunger will improve at unlocking Praxis Advancements. Increased appearance% of rare Advancements.
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And, for reference, the Companions of the King details. The blurb mentions the Forebear: "A hero out of myth deserves a company of legends, but what foremost company could withstand the presence the Forebear's presence itself?"

Here's what we know about the other requirements:
Requires Undying Vanguard, which can be purchased for 5 Arete and 0 picks. The character may ignore the other requirements for this Advancement during this experience spending point.
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It's time for another theory that reaches pretty far into guessing.

I just realized some pieces that could be connected, mainly to the aforementioned sentence of "A hero out of myth deserves a company of legends, but what foremost company could withstand the presence the Forebear's presence itself?", referring to the Companions of the King, a Forebear EFB.

A Foremost company you say? Now, here we have a possible connection of Foremost and Forebear, but the interesting part was the seemingly obscene amount of effort (or at least result) that went into creating the Voyaging Realm, which seems to be an amusement park, something to...party in.

In here comes a part of the update "Eve of Devastation", which has the following speculation from Hunger.

"Still, if the Forebear had the opportunity, would he have pursued the joys of life as wholeheartedly as he'd prepared for its travails?"

What if the Forebear and his Foremost company truly DID pursue the joys of life as wholeheartedly as he did everything else? Wouldn't an amusement-universe be a fitting thing for such a scale? It may also explain the scale of the magics and seeming Praxis proliferation amongst the Foremost, if the Forebear was their leader or some such.
 
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