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A Simple Transaction I

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BrainInAJar said:
Imagine spending actual, multiple years complaining about the effects the overwhelming beauty of a certain character had on our protagonist, but when suddenly the shoe is on the other foot we don't need to do anything at all and other people need to just take it, imperiously deciding all of the others don't merit our consideration at all. How...amusing.
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I can only speak for myself, but since this snipe transparently seems aimed at me I'll respond to it. You're ascribing some kind of principled stance to my objections to Imperia's effects on Arthur, but no such thing has ever existed. When it comes to the well-being of protagonists I'm invested in, there's no benefit in keeping to a deontological framework of meta-rules across multiple quests other than my own preferences, that would just limit our stable of stories. It's precisely because I have such a healthy respect for the motivation-distorting powers of Unnatural Mental Influence that I want Hunger to be able to command them. Beauty is an attack, and Hunger should have the sharpest metaphorical swords the thread can forge for him.

And then of course there were narrative considerations: how power distances its wielder from the very people he fights for, how expectations could become a prison for the Imprisoner, how the idealized version of a person can diverge from the actuality...
 
Rihaku said:
The Realms of Myth are quite far from the parts of the Voyaging Realm easily accessible to/from the Human Sphere... you guys haven't seen too much of the particulars, but would you be interested in staying here for a prolonged period of time, or are you keen to visit the Human Sphere properly?
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I've been voting to visit the Human Sphere for a while now, but after seeing how badly it got crushed in Sovereign Jewel I don't think it'll happen. We'd need something extraordinary to drive us there, a power even greater than the threat of death. Maybe if Letrizia needs more soup ingredients?

Previously I advocated a brief visit. Heal and ennoble Letrizia's father before he dies, get the lay of the land, pick up any free powerups that happen to be available, then go back to Voyaging.
 
I do want to go to the Human Sphere eventually - we shouldn't drag Letrizia around forever - but it wasn't getting any traction any time it came up, and now that we're at the Realm of Myth I'd like to grab some artifacts and magic while we're here. After that, I'd be up for making a trip back to the Human Sphere. I understand that there's always going to be other stuff going on that we want to do, but it's been hinted several times that something is going down in the HS, and if we leave it for too long then it's going to blow up in our faces.

Just, ya know, we're already at the place with the cool magic stuff and it's a week's travel to get here, we should grab the good stuff while we're in the area.
 
You know, looking back at the Sky Veil versus Halo arguments, I have to wonder what utter nonsense our Charisma would have been up to if we picked the Trinity option that straight up Tripled it.
 
HoratioVonBecker said:
@Orm Embar, I think a lot of your arguments also apply to my Combat Tourism writein, but that Tourism trades guaranteed Praxis training for more regular picks and info on our opponents here. Would you mind sharing your thoughts on it?
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I like it more than the default Scenic Route. In some ways this is the ideal situation to use the Ring for grinding, since adversarial intent on our part means it won't object to attempts to 'game' the system while we still benefit from the Mythic's social norms about not killing tourists. We don't know for sure those exist, but it seems likely that such a martial culture has developed non-lethal tests of skill. Still, Entrench also comes with a pick (+1 at the next experience spending point) and doesn't draw as much heat; rolling badly and being on the hook for an Artifact is high-risk relative to what we stand to gain. Aobaru and Aeira's ability to appraise combatants is inferior to Hunger's, but we can canvas the place by proxy while avoiding attention and the Ring's training debuff, which doesn't apply to the Praxis.

Speaking of the former:
Rihaku said:
Those blue rune things still freak me out whenever you do them. It's like I'm seeing the naked face of reality itself..."
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One of the benefits of True Vigorflame is that eventually it'll be able to advance its beneficiaries fractional amounts along the Infinite Singularity Husk, which makes this line stand out. Maybe we should let Aobaru sit in on this or future Praxis training sessions and watch what we're doing? If there's a sensory aspect to Vigorflame, some form of feedback that lets him sense the people he's buffed, perhaps he could glean insights from meditating on that while we execute Praxis runes. Staring into the shining abyss underlying reality is also a valid option, though.
 
Orm Embar said:
One of the benefits of True Vigorflame is that eventually it'll be able to advance its beneficiaries fractional amounts along the Infinite Singularity Husk, which makes this line stand out. Maybe we should let Aobaru sit in on this or future Praxis training sessions and watch what we're doing? If there's a sensory aspect to Vigorflame, some form of feedback that lets him sense the people he's buffed, perhaps he could glean insights from meditating on that while we execute Praxis runes. Staring into the shining abyss underlying reality is also a valid option, though.
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Oh, I just let that line roll over me, since yes, that's what it is. But I was wrong to do so, since it would be kinda inane to make that comparison if he knew that's what it was, so he came to that conclusion on his own. Which means he either has some instinctual grasp, like Hunger and Versch's runes- or it's just blatantly obvious to everyone, in which case never mind. :p
 
[X] Entrench
Even if i dislike +Heartlessness on principle, the option itself is just so useful i can't vote for it (and it gives me a feeling of dejavu when compared to our previous chance to entrench ourselves at the temple, which i really wanted to take)
Also its an option that gives LORE!!!???!
and (possibly) a INTERLUDE!?!?!

[X] Save
S A V E, Once our Only possible Future has been secured, all else will fall into place (hopefully)
Also, its an EFB that gives LORE!!?!??!

I am however easily swayed from these choices, more so S A V E than Entrench, for ADS has SINergy with basically anything, which may yet lay the groundwork for my beloved.

Wreath of Philosophers, hallowed be thy name, thine ancient prophecy, foretold for hundreds of pages on end, yet rejected by the masses in their ignorance (of int singularities) May you rest upon the Heaven Lathe itself for now, for thine opportune moment may yet be at hand
 
I definitely think we are ready to tackle the human sphere after this. As much as I would like to do some kingdom building and relocation, it just doesn't feel practical to put it off any longer after this as we will have the strength to not get steamrolled and maybe make some inroads onto our overall goals.
 
Orm Embar said:
And then of course there were narrative considerations: how power distances its wielder from the very people he fights for, how expectations could become a prison for the Imprisoner, how the idealized version of a person can diverge from the actuality...
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Unless i'm missreading your argument, isn't this an argument for Skyveil? Power distances one from people, and charisma, as it increases, even more so, because eventually we might not even be able to hold a normal conversation with the average man. Skyveil just flat-out nullifies this by giving us an off buttom for superhuman beauty.

And while i understand your arguments, and agree that we should strive to give Hunger attack avenues, but at the same time, the risk of a weapon that you cannot store cannot be underesimated, and beauty is a weapon just as dangerous as any other. How much charisma before we are branded a memetic hazard in the human sphere? People aren't stupid, and national leaders very much would want to avoid directly talking with Hunger, and be naturally untrustworthy of him due to it, and can potentially lead to a number of long-term issues. All of which can be neatly solved with Skyveil.

You might argue that Hunger can learn to naturally control it with manipulation, but i would argue that using Skyveil is simply him doing so in the easiest and most convenient way. What's the most straightfoward way to deal with having inhuman beauty? Simply turn it off. It's not as if Skyveil is a nerf to his charsima, it's merely a itensity meter that he can toggle at will, and i would argue that's the best thing for Hunger for the short and long-term: He can both have normal conversations with the average men, and can trade banter with other memetic hazarsd such as Gisena. The other option, unfortunately, would require a lot more effort(since manipulation is a rather rare stat with our panoply, albeit since we have core panoply, that would be a way of potentially dealing with it, but agian, would likely require large amount of effort to find a suitable artifact) for lesser effect, because no amount of manipulation would make up for not being able to simply turn it off.

But i digress, probably shouldn't be arguing so much over something from 2 updates ago.
 
Rihaku said:
*Kind of a dick move, but whichever path safely mitigates the Decimator's Affliction is ultimately the best for all involved. Given your current strength its radius would precipitate an ecological disaster if unleashed for too long. A few extra days here is a small price to pay, and these people have more life to give than most.
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The main problem I have with Entrench is the bolded. Arguably it's less of a crime to take a fraction of a percent from the lifespan of someone with a life expectancy of 1,000 than 100, which seems to be what it's going for. Which, I don't totally agree with, but I get the idea.

But they don't just have more lifespan, they have more lives. We nom 10% of the lifeforce in our radius every year, indifferent to the level of sapience (or Hunger's/the thread's opinion of their moral weight). Being in the jungle is good, being in the city is bad. It would perhaps be worse to Decimate this place for a few days than the Sovereignty for a few months, simply because we're exposing so many more people to the Curse.

Therefore, I submit this Entrench tactic: get money for a return trip if needed, then move away from the people when the Curse comes back on, you dick. :V
 
Projectile said:
The main problem I have with Entrench is the bolded. Arguably it's less of a crime to take a fraction of a percent from the lifespan of someone with a life expectancy of 1,000 than 100, which seems to be what it's going for. Which, I don't totally agree with, but I get the idea.

But they don't just have more lifespan, they have more lives. We nom 10% of the lifeforce in our radius every year, indifferent to the level of sapience (or Hunger's/the thread's opinion of their moral weight). Being in the jungle is good, being in the city is bad. It would perhaps be worse to Decimate this place for a few days than the Sovereignty for a few months, simply because we're exposing so many more people to the Curse.

Therefore, I submit this Entrench tactic: get money for a return trip if needed, then move away from the people when the Curse comes back on, you dick. :V
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I am not certain that scenic route will be faster though...there are a lot of places where it can fail and it's ultimately about gathering information to some extent.
 
DkArthas said:
I am not certain that scenic route will be faster though...there are a lot of places where it can fail and it's ultimately about gathering information to some extent.
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Good point. The lack of +Hearltessness made me underestimate that possibility. In that case, if Huntress' Moon expires during Scenic Route and we can't trivially destroy the tower, maybe we should zoom far away and switch to training until we can.

Not sure how far we'd need to zoom, though. The given radius for a Combat-type is a solar system, are we about that strong now? We'd probably need Refinement of Place to get the necessary distance if so, 'cause it'd take like a year to cover that distance. Hm.
 
Box Lunch said:
Holy... Japan in Space! There's always one, isn't there? The green cap and the unmistakable hue of a full moon's light, piercing and perfect. So luxurious it can't even decide what kind it wants to purvey, so it just does all of them. With our spending habits, we can relate.
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Does the Voyaging Realm really count as 'space,' though? If anything, one could argue that it's among the places least fit for the category of 'Outer Space' within the span of this current Geas universe!

Projectile said:
But they don't just have more lifespan, they have more lives.
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A salient point!
 
I have certainly

had a time



first ever Live2D model, some of Letrizia's parts freak out a bit but otherwise she is definitely functional, if a bit drunk on some settings

(boy am I glad I didn't attempt Gisena for my first try at this)
 
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[X] Entrench
[X] Save - S A V E
mh don't want to think
guess I'll just go for praxis again
probably write something tomorrow unless I end up binge reading all day but that gives me a headache so unlikely
 
Xalvitor said:
But i digress, probably shouldn't be arguing so much over something from 2 updates ago.
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The ability to convert salt to Arete isn't to be underestimated, but yeah, I'm pretty tired of this argument as well. To briefly address some points: Skyveil didn't nerf our charisma explicitly, but given the enormous opportunity cost of five pluses it might as well have, options don't exist in a vacuum. The narrative considerations mentioned previously built on themes that have been central to Hunger's character since before he was called that. Fame is a double-edged sword, as anyone who derives their power from Astral Rank should know, it would've been an opportunity to weigh the cost of the crown and talk about the expectations burdening any self-styled hero.

It made Hunger both stronger and safer, and would've made for a more compelling story, though the latter perk's admittedly subjective. Instead we shelled out for an aesthetically incoherent option (the Arbitrary Sky doesn't have the same ring to it) that didn't even remotely compare on a mechanical level. Essentially, we took a character arc out back and shot it in the head, and now unless Gisena decides to follow Hunger's lead he's going to be punching uphill in banter battles with bystanders because Hunger'll be limiting himself.
Microwave MKII said:
first ever Live2D model, some of Letrizia's parts freak out a bit but otherwise she is definitely functional, if a bit drunk on some settings
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It's ALIVE... 2D Letriza! Though her father the Archduke would certainly have some questions the Duchess, just because she can pilot a superweapon doesn't mean she's allowed to drink. Indeed, you could argue that the former should preclude the latter...
 
Seems like vote's tightening up! Current vote count?

Orm Embar said:
It's ALIVE... 2D Letriza! Though her father the Archduke would certainly have some questions the Duchess, just because she can pilot a superweapon doesn't mean she's allowed to drink. Indeed, you could argue that the former should preclude the latter...
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VERSCHLENGORGE: I have no compunctions against drinking, it's a necessary component of eating!
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by DkArthas on Aug 4, 2020 at 1:08 AM, finished with 271 posts and 44 votes.
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Hm. I'm tempted to sell my vote, since I'm reasonably happy with any of the outcomes, but at the same time I don't want to potentially damage the arete generation of the Advancement Memory...
 
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