If the Tyrant of the Tower isn't a cursebearer my second guess would be that they're another one of the Forebear's kids. It would be kinda funny if all the Forebear's kids got the same name, Tyrant.

Building on this, previously I speculated that there are two timelines
Timeline 1: The Isekai world where Hunger lost and where the Hidden Ones live.
Timeline 2: This world, which is Hidden One free.

So it's possible that the Tyrant here is the alt-timeline version of the Tyrant that Hunger knew. In which case the princess is most likely his daughter, who is possibly named Catherine, and like all beautiful princesses whose fathers are evil overlords she decided to rebel against him. "Every story spoken has been spoken before" and all. Only this time she lost.
 
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Man, Sky Veil and Halo are not only completely tied, they are both decisively behind Honing as well. It seems that not caring about it for now is what we will go with. I really don't think that's prudent, especially since Saving is less necessary then ever thanks to future boosts. We are quite safe, so I don't see the reason not to spend now. Especially for something that will become a concern. Do you think we will be provided better answer in the future? If so, which ones? Let me see your expectations, or if you even care at all.
 
Even if I accept spending Arete here, which isn't as great a burden as it would have been before, I'm just not sure how I want Hunger to handle this problem. On the one hand, trying to restrict his Charisma rubs me the wrong way and I feel quite greedy for those bonus stats and the Rank increase. It's a not-inconsiderable improvement to Hunger's power, in comparison to Sky Veil, which does almost nothing in that area by itself.

On the other hand, I still want him to interact with people semi-normally if we really intend to deal with this dilemma. We haven't personally seen much of the purported effects yet, as it has mostly been talked about rather than shown, but it isn't difficult to imagine our listeners' brains dribbling out of their ears whenever we speak to them. And wearing a perception filter all the time is going to be tedious. The Stealth advancements are neat too, though only a minor consideration at this point, tbh.
 
Let me see your expectations, or if you even care at all.
haha combat int go brrr

Honing being super good is a large portion of my reasoning, and even you say the Charisma "will become a concern". The problem doesn't seem so urgent to me that putting it off is terrible. And while I don't expect there to be a better solution than Skyveil, I do expect there to be a cheaper one- Rihaku implied as much. Maybe a blood advancement in the Vigor line will allow modulation of the brute-force Cha increase?

Could be wrong, of course.
 
I mean, it totally can! That's because my position is to scrimp and save Arete, since I think we as voters have a tendency to spend shortsightedly and suboptimally for various reasons. As such, my point is broadly that we would require at minimum to pick up OaF before I feel comfortable spending large amounts of Arete on other things, just because Apocryphal is unpredictable and we don't know how many interrim updates there are.
But that's just the thing: the argument here has nothing to do with how much arete we generate or have access to. Your characterization of voter behavior as "shortsighted" and "suboptimal" refers to 7-cost picks, specifically. This argument only works if 7-cost options are suboptimal as a rule. I'm arguing that isn't the case.

I am sympathetic to prioritizing OaF, but the impending Arete explosion means that it's a lock. I'm not even a little concerned about getting it before Ber arrives. Whether we need it inside the Tower is something that we could debate, but that's not the argument you're making.

Mostly, the dismissal of 7-Arete options seems like such a weird way to play the quest. All the 7-cost choices that we've picked up have been pretty nuts: Evening Sky, Thousand Cuts, various stances, Inherit the World, Triumphal Gleam... every one has combined with our other purchases in interesting ways.
  • Thousand Cuts + Fall + Fell Handed Stroke: still the default strategy for combat while Hunger looks for ways to apply newer esoteric skills.
  • Inherit the World + Triumphal Gleam: Indirect Tyrant mitigation, plus a memetic Public Relations campaign that can also build into passive Rank gain
  • Evening Sky:
  • Guile Defeating Stance + Edeldross: we can detect and shut down deceitful enemies, while simultaneously elevating the our allies to be more charismatic and intelligent. A politicians dream combination!

Buying a 25-cost is so impressive because it opens a bundle of interactive effects all at once, and they are guaranteed to have synergy. By far the most interesting minigame of the quest for me has been fighting to select build options that compound on each other. Selecting 7-cost options is like building an EFB yourself piece by piece.


If your position is that we are in a comfortable position enough to not worry about spending 7, then that only means that our Arete generation is sufficient to spend more efficiently, which requires saving.
This, again, presupposes that 25 Arete expenditures are more efficient.
 
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Zampano has a point, particularly since we've reached Trinity. 7-Arete upgrades can be huge value, like Slice Fate. And personally, I think it's more fun to buy lots of 2- and 7-Arete advancements than a few 25s!

Not these 7s though, H O N I N G calls to me, give blood pls.
 
[X] Vanquisher Halo
[X] Agents of the Throne

I have an idea for my own Element. I'll try to post it later today.
 
I've always been against the "Only 25 Arete options are good" thing, so count me behind any plans to get more 2 and 7 Arete things.

Anyway, I think Skyveil is important to get here, because we'll need to do something about the memetic hazard problem eventually, and we have an upgrade that's perfectly suited for it right here. There's no guarantee we'll be able to find something just as good in the future, and failing to do anything about it could bite us in the ass. I understand the desire to see more Blood Advancements, but we can get Honing next time.

And Skyveil will unlock new advancements as well, although personally I'd prefer magic over disguise and stealth stuff, seeing new upgrades is always a plus.
 
*May provoke a certain individual. But you can probably take him. Right?
So, I've been treating this as a joke, but is Doc Apoc or whoever actually going to crash in to the scene from twenty bajillion dimensions leafwards to throw down if we pick Skyveil? Because that would be amazing and might convince me to take it.
 
So, I've been treating this as a joke, but is Doc Apoc or whoever actually going to crash in to the scene from twenty bajillion dimensions leafwards to throw down if we pick Skyveil? Because that would be amazing and might convince me to take it.
We had already been offered an option with similar consequences in AST 0, the Archsmith's Hammer. While it's possible Apocrypha will conspire to transport him to the Voyaging Realm, I think chances are we'll just meet him on one of our next Geas tasks.
 
In the middle of writing an anti-Sky Veil argument, I got so into it that I consumed fries too hastily. Is this heartburn a punishment from Doctor Apocalypse? How powerful...
 
In the middle of writing an anti-Sky Veil argument, I got so into it that I consumed fries too hastily. Is this heartburn a punishment from Doctor Apocalypse? How powerful...
Why would Doctor Apocalypse punish you for writing an anti-Sky Veil argument? The heartburn is actually him sharing part of his fiery soul with you, channel it into an even more convincing argument.
 
Those fires are the fires of VILLAINY!

Keep going Projectile, if you're lucky you might summon him into our world!
 
Why would Doctor Apocalypse punish you for writing an anti-Sky Veil argument? The heartburn is actually him sharing part of his fiery soul with you, channel it into an even more convincing argument.
Ah, his Charisma overwhelmed me and I misinterpreted the sensation. Yes, my faith is restored! The Sky needs no Veil!
 
[X] Regimentation
[X] Vanquisher Halo
[7 Arete]

I'm coming around to the idea that it's better to just settle on a direction for the issue here and now rather than unsightly waffling. I prefer this mainly because it seems like the time to invest in a stealth focus is long in the past, at this point we're starting to edge into the highest echelons of the verse, so the opponents we mainly benefit having a stealth capability against are likely going to have extraordinary detection suites and trying ot grind up a stealth build from the start in an attempt to contest them seems effort better spent elsewhere at this point.

Vanquisher Halo!Hunger can just grab a prototype suit. Sure it's totally obsolete to him, but he dons it not to protect himself, but for the sake of the world. Only those capable of destroying it will be able to witness his true brain melting glory.
 
Even if I accept spending Arete here, which isn't as great a burden as it would have been before, I'm just not sure how I want Hunger to handle this problem. On the one hand, trying to restrict his Charisma rubs me the wrong way and I feel quite greedy for those bonus stats and the Rank increase. It's a not-inconsiderable improvement to Hunger's power, in comparison to Sky Veil, which does almost nothing in that area by itself.

It grants high base Prot and some base AGI, both relevant given Silver of Evening! Such Prot is part of what helped Hunger defeat the Apocryphal Rotbeast without any Conditions whatsoever!

On the other hand, I still want him to interact with people semi-normally if we really intend to deal with this dilemma. We haven't personally seen much of the purported effects yet, as it has mostly been talked about rather than shown, but it isn't difficult to imagine our listeners' brains dribbling out of their ears whenever we speak to them. And wearing a perception filter all the time is going to be tedious. The Stealth advancements are neat too, though only a minor consideration at this point, tbh.

Most of the effects are internal to his interlocutors! Unless and until his Charisma becomes so potent that it induces feelings so powerful they completely overwhelm the other characters' sense of social pressure or even reason, you won't see the average highly-trained, Ennoblement-boosted staffer freaking out like a superfan at a rock concert at his mere passage!

Quite an advantage Agents and Honing have. It's like watching a train right before it drives off a cliff, or an avalanche as it's about to occur...

Mm...
 
[X] Vanquisher Halo [7 Arete]
[X] Agents of the Throne

You know what? If people don't mind being a cognitive hazard, I don't want to half-ass this. This is 5 CHA and a 20% Cha boost, and it even negates the Punctured Soul penalty we have right now! That's a ton of social ability gained at once. If we are doing this, we better leverage it maximally. No mercy for other people.

That's right, we're the Imperia now.
 
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