We do need more updates if we want OaF in time though, so either the reform stuff or the Wall would be helpful there. I agree that the Crown is too much though, which means Be the Change is out unless people somehow decide to take it without Crown.
With intervention on the other hand, we can reach 15 arete this update. Walls of Myth in addition to that would likely be enough for Once and Future with some discipline before we even face the Tyrant. That's basically our victory condition against both Ber and The Tyrant. In the aftermath, we would be free to chase any shiny we want, Tyrant and Ber both will probably give some pretty good advancements, Rank and artifacts! If the Tyrant is the practitioner of the local magic, we would be able to get access to that!Let's look at it another way. We gain 3 arete per update according to rihaku. We will at most get couple of reform updates, bringing us to 6 arete. If we do go straight to the tower, that's only 1-2 more updates probably, which means 9-12 arete.
Now, in this situation we would have minimal knowledge about the Tyrant and his magics and defenses, which means the entire thing will be very risky, that means we might be forced to spend more arete to bring the death chances lower still, that's more arete going straight into the Not-Dying hole. So even if we do defeat The Tyrant, against Ber we would be beyond fucked.
If we go with Walls of Myth, we would have more time but also more spending opportunities due to ancient magics and artifacts. And, we might be forced into an situation where we might have to fight Tyrant and Ber both without Once and Future.
Both of these are very shitty situations unless we can get an couple of omake storms and the thread is exceptionally disciplined. I can't make myself vote for Be the Change + Crown combo because of that.
A big assumption to make, since not only we might not find the maximum amount opportunities, we can also start getting less Rank the more Rank we have. Not to mention that 3-pick maximum Rank opportunity would assuredly be quite risky.That's discounting Stranglethorn and assuming maximum amount gained from each
No, it's not. With several updates spent here, we will recoup most of the cost even at 3 Arete per update - and it's not written in stone that we will get just so much. We generated almost 8 Arete per update for two updates before this one, after all, and we don't need that much to have enough for OaF.
Probably. I suspect that would be difficult/expensive/dangerous though. Probably all three.Hmm. Will we get an option to absorb the Opalescent Tower into Evening Sky? That counts as destroying it, right?
A big assumption to make, since not only we might not find the maximum amount opportunities, we can also start getting less Rank the more Rank we have. Not to mention that 3-pick maximum Rank opportunity would assuredly be quite risky.
No, it's not. With several updates spent here, we will recoup most of the cost even at 3 Arete per update - and it's not written in stone that we will get just so much. We generated almost 8 Arete per update for two updates before this one, after all, and we don't need that much to have enough for OaF.
Interesting, can you guys really afford to be distracted by the 12-Arete option when Once and Future is only twice that, though? You're already halfway there, and your 12 Arete isn't buying anything you couldn't get for 'free' with Errantry actions anyway... compare that to something like OaF which will explicitly scale with you as you grow in strength!
Don't forget, you are here forever.But the reward of discipline is power, and power has been attained at last. Power enough, in some ways, even to eclipse the Hero who stood against that Tyrant of yore, all those long months ago... power to triumph where he failed.
Now, child of Earth. How will you use that power?
At last attain the outcome that Hunger died for, what he set out to do before age and treachery taught him what may have been his final lesson, but for the intervention of the Accursed
We have only managed to get a few things before because of Rihaku being nice and giving us more time. Please stop relying on that. Eventually he'll decide it's funny to be mean.I mean, WDS+Crown is 0.7 Rank for general purpose, which would put our Blood Casting at 9.3. We have ways to compensate for this even if shit goes south and we somehow don't get OfA in time, which i find entirely unlikely. Danger of Crown is getting blown hilariously out of the proportion..
I mean even ADS right now isn't enough for Ber without threefold. I highly doubt 0.7 Rank will be enough to face him.I mean, WDS+Crown is 0.7 Rank for general purpose, which would put our Blood Casting at 9.3. We have ways to compensate for this even if shit goes south and we somehow don't get OfA in time, which i find entirely unlikely. Danger of Crown is getting blown hilariously out of the proportion..
On the other hand, with Crown, OfA and rewards from this mission we will be at Rank 10+ Blood Casting. And, of course:
Don't forget, you are here forever.
I'm not relying on Rihaku's mercy, but on general questing trends. Realistically, getting OfA after Crown is absolutely not an issue; real issue is not spending on next shiny.We have only managed to get a few things before because of Rihaku being nice and giving us more time. Please stop relying on that. Eventually he'll decide it's funny to be mean.
Remember that Rank 5.7+CP+OaF would be enough to utterly crush him. That's same amount of Blood Casting/Defensive Rank we'd get with WDS+Crown. We wouldn't get combat Rank, which would remain at 7.3, but it should be more than enough give that we have Quickening, Thorn and so on.I mean even ADS right now isn't enough for Ber without threefold. I highly doubt 0.7 Rank will be enough to face him.
I think you are seriously understimating Ber if you believe an additional 0.7 rank will be enough. The power an additional 1 combat rank brings is absolutely overwhelming. But I don't think we have any way to convince each other without Rihaku so whatever.I'm not relying on Rihaku's mercy, but on general questing trends. Realistically, getting OfA after Crown is absolutely not an issue; real issue is not spending on next shiny.
But that's fine. This is eminently doable, and working to fulfill Hunger's explicit desire is more than worth the effort. Hunger is a good boy, and I enjoy making him happy.
Remember that Rank 5.7+CP+OaF would be enough to utterly crush him. That's same amount of Blood Casting/Defensive Rank we'd get with WDS+Crown. We wouldn't get combat Rank, which would remain at 7.3, but it should be more than enough give that we have Quickening, Thorn and so on.
Like, it's not that I want to get World Defeating Stance, but even if we accept the arguments that we won't get OfA in time and that Tyrant and Ber will both magically teleport on our ass moment we look in Tower's direction and that we won't have any other power up in the meanwhile and so on, we still have an out.
As I've said, this entire "if we pick Crown we are DOOMED, DOOMED I SAY" is just incorrect.
I mean, it's same thing that would completely crush Ber, except -1 combat Rank and +Quickness, Thorn and so on. Majority of Ber crushing was due to overwhelming Blood Casting, which we would have either way.I think you are seriously understimating Ber if you think additional 0.7 rank will be enough. The power an additional 1 combat rank brings is absolutely massive. But I don't think we have any way to convince each other without Rihaku so whatever.
Where did Rihaku say the majority of Ber crushing was due to Bloodcasting? And I mean 1 combat rank is an absolutely massive difference considering how rank works the higher you go. 8.3+ combat rank brings us into what is considered High Rank...I mean, it's same thing that would completely crush Ber, except -1 combat Rank and +Quickness, Thorn and so on. Majority of Ber crushing was due to overwhelming Blood Casting, which we would have either way.
I don't think Rihaku really specified this anywhere, but higher you go in Rank the greater the difference is. Getting 0.1 in Rank 9 beats that +1 in 8 pretty handily. Plus, again, you have Quickening, Thorn and so on, which were also not in initial power specification. And unlike +1 combat, Quickening works perfectly fine with Blood/Defense Rank.Where did Rihaku say the majority of Ber crushing was due to Bloodcasting? And I mean 1 combat rank is an absolutely massive difference considering how rank works.
To be fair, Ber does have a magical teleport... but I'm pretty compelled by Wolfy's points.
R'07/16/2020
9.3 Blood Rank
[2:44 PM]that should comfortably overwhelm even the upgraded Ber
[2:45 PM]
[X] Be the Change
[X] The Tower Itself
[X] Feat: Crown
To be fair, Ber does have a magical teleport... but I'm pretty compelled by Wolfy's points.
R'07/16/2020
9.3 Blood Rank
[2:44 PM]that should comfortably overwhelm even the upgraded Ber
[2:45 PM]
[X] Be the Change
[X] The Tower Itself
[X] Feat: Crown
@Wolfy has good arguments that Crown + WDS would reliably make us crush Ber. Also WDS builds into ADS so I don't think we are wasting Arete.
You are willing to change your mind due to good arguments, respect for thatI keep flinching because of the memes, but the argument is good.
As for those who think WDS and Crown will be enough against Ber, that's wrong. Rihaku pretty much said we need OaF.Is that really something you guys can afford to be worried about right now, however? Ber is coming and you need OaF to take him! Once you've secured that you'll be much freer to spend on the impulses of themomentupdate.