From what Ciel observed, Rose is not particularly physically strong. Neither is she overly weak. Seeing that Giano lost her heavy greatsword and greatshield, Rose should be able to carry her.

Ok, so plan is not completely dead out of the water, but it still might be better to go for us carrying the two.

For a short reminder (partially to myself) of what to expect on the T-Corp thingy's part: Rose told us it accelerate her a thousandfold, and that she has five seconds of it left, meaning five thousand seconds of running… assuming it works on more than one person at a time and that it doesn't increase how much energy that uses if it can.

Just in case, do consider it more likely it works on two, and that it gives more time if it does, but we probably would still go farther while carrying two in less time than Rose would alone in more time….

Assuming the simplest relation between *more people* and *more energy use*, Rose alone has five thousand seconds to flee, she has 2 500 seconds if taking Giano, and we have 1 666,66666666… seconds if we take the both of them. (Frankly, just the number makes me wants to :V), in that scenario, we definitely go further than Rose alone.

The problem is if that isn't the case, for example, just assuming the energy double for each humans carried, we don't have 1 666, we have 1 250, not yet horrible, but still minutes shaved.

And the worst case of it working is worse, and we get seconds of acceleration on our hand, which would not be helpful.

My risk vs reward sense is hesitant on hoping the device can even support three persons, let alone do it for long is what I mean, this is a hail-mary, it can be tried, but it isn't assured.

Edit:

Particularly since T-Corp's main problem has always been how energy hungry their singularity is, I don't hope for a linear relation of increase of use.
 
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Speaking generally, I would advise against such "trying to have our cake, eating it, and buying the whole house too" plots. I strongly suspect that attaching more people/things to the T-Corp gadget will drain its charge rapidly and get us much less distance away from Elena.

The Rose carrying out Giano plan has 2 people on the gadget but also someone sacrificing themselves to buy time.
 
Honestly speaking, since it's this late into the vote, I'm pretty sure the Ciel sacrifice vote is gonna win.

But this is the even more gambling option since Ciel is way more capable of carrying and running away given their augments.

I would advise against such "trying to have our cake, eating it, and buying the whole house too" plots
This is the reason why we are stuck in our current situation in the first place. We played "safe" for two whole days chasing after useless leads and ended up wasting our time before getting fucked by the City when it came to the time to actually play it safe and focus on the mission.

Where the hell was this mentality when Ciel was stuck looking at a stupid piece of paper instead of worrying about the job?

Not saying that the worry of the drain being more is wrong. Just saying that in the current situation saying to play it safe where every option we take either requires a sacrifice or a risky gamble regardless is dumb.
 
We played "safe" for two whole days chasing after useless leads and ended up wasting our time before getting fucked by the City when it came to the time to actually play it safe and focus on the mission.
That was more a matter of failing a prudence/investigation check. Voting to not investigate the zombies further wasn't for matters of safety, it's because people didn't think it was fruitful enough to actually bring the full party (or at least swap out the Rose/Hifumi parties). It couldn't have been to avoid revealing Thorns to Rose, as Naron said it was possible to investigate the zombies while feigning ignorance.

And even at the Index detour, we may well have arrived at the destination with a full party at only 1 day delay if Rose had been properly accounted for in planning (if say for example we did the assassination and stayed with Rose to grill her about her knowledge of her father's dealings).

You're right that no option can be playing it safe at this point, because the opportunity to play it safe has passed. Now we have to cut our losses. So there's still this glittery option of losing pretty much nothing, but it requires a gamble. Personally I think the risk (both Giano and Rose die) and the probability of failure are too high. The other options are a sliding scale of higher success chance but lower payoff and guaranteed sacrifice (e.g. Ciel getting limbs hacked off/leaving Giano to die).
 
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This is the reason why we are stuck in our current situation in the first place. We played "safe" for two whole days chasing after useless leads and ended up wasting our time before getting fucked by the City when it came to the time to actually play it safe and focus on the mission.

False equivalence, how we acted before in an investigation does not change the consequences of what we do now in a fight, the way the singularity works is not changing depending on what we did, and T-Corps problem always has been *consume too much energy to covers anything more than little things*, meaning that it is very probable the device doesn't even work on multiple people. Plus the arguments against going to the hideout weren't all based on *playing safe*.

Trying a gigantic hail mary of putting three people under the device's effect is not going to work more just because it's not *playing safe*.

I may have been telling since the beginning that we should have been investigating the hideout correctly, but at this point it is irrelevant, in the past, we have Elena in front of us now and choosing our actions only on the basis of *this is the way we should have acted before for a totally different set of circumstances and actions* is just as bad as the distraction we had about the prescript last vote.

Us covering more distance when using the device to carry both rely both on the device working on three people, and it giving us enough time to do anything if it does, meanwhile, Rose leaving with Giano while we distract ask that the device works on two, which is more likely than on three, and that it has enough energy to put her to safety, once again more likely with only two people.

Edit:

It couldn't have been to avoid revealing Thorns to Rose, as Naron said it was possible to investigate the zombies while feigning ignorance.

Actually, a lot of those who told we shouldn't go to the hideout had either ignored or forgotten that part, as they did absolutely argue that it was to avoid revealing our knowledge of the thorns to Rose, which *may have made her hostile*
 
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In regard to playing it safe, I would like to remind you (the players) that every winning vote in this investigation split the party. This could have gone really wrong, but I decided not to heap additional stuff on you because I knew Elena was involved.
 
Ālea iacta est.
I suppose.

Well, as I said before, not much point in discussing things now. We already arrived at the best solution as far as "risks" vs "reward" is concerned.

Throw Ciel onto the scary vampire lady and let Rose watch the violent blood fountain from far away. The discussion we just had arrived at the same point again.

I don't think there's much else to consider other than just waiting for the vote to be over.
 
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I don't agree necessarily, the proposed other solution wasn't convincing, but I highly doubt the current one is perfect either, having more people working on the problem helps a lot, and discouraging discussion by telling *welp, there's not much to consider* doesn't help that optic, humans once thought they had solved physics except for two *little problems that would soon be vanquished* and those two turned out to lead to the creation of quantum physics (from the problem of black body radiation if I remember correctly) and general relativity (from some problems with Mercury's orbit).

Just because we think we know almost everything, doesn't means a fresh set of eyes can't completely change our views.
 
There could be an argument to be made to just leave Giano and focus on Rose only, I suppose.

We need to remember that outside of Elena, there is still a horde of zombies around us, so letting Rose escape by herself with Giano is quite a risky move in and of itself-

Wait...

Can the gale force ring make a big enough distraction if we use it on Elena for Ciel to just grab both girls and high tail it out of there?
 
Something else just occurred to me as well: I saw something on the lines of "this far into the vote" when it has barely been more than 24 hours. It is true the initial voting is over but there are still at least 48 hours before I close it, with extensions always possible if that is not enough.
 
It is true the initial voting is over but there are still at least 48 hours before I close it, with extensions always possible if that is not enough.
That is true. I keep forgetting you let votes go on for 72 hours.

Anyhow.

Back to the discussion.

Just went back to check the one time the ring was used. Maybe it won't work at all. It can certainly push people, but outside of using it on ourselves to give us a speed boost before we run away from Elena, it wouldn't be able to do much.

I suppose a revision of the risky plan that includes Ciel in it would probably be something like this.

[X] Throw weapon at Elena. Pick up Giano. Grab Rose. Use the Galeforce ring and the T-Corp device to get out of there.

Which is still insanely risky, but less so than before.

For one thing, Rose won't need to worry about zombies and running away, but it still has the problem of having to gamble on the T-Corp device to outrun Elena.

What's the environment even like? Is there anything to use? This is why you should fully charge your phone before you leave the house people.
 
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[X] Throw weapon at Elena. Pick up Giano. Grab Rose. Use the Galeforce ring and the T-Corp device to get out of there.
 
God dammit, one slip-up and it all goes to hell.

A lot about it has already been said, so I won't add to it. I completely fell for the prescript distraction, among other stuff, hook line and sinker though.

I've some bad news rereading the update.

Then Giano charges past in a wave of white and you instinctively grasp your Lucerne to follow her, but it is over before you make two steps; reinforced steel shatters and the other woman bites straight into Giano's collar. The redhead shouts in surprise and pain, then another jab from her attacker snaps her shield arm; the heavy piece cracks the ground on impact while she tries to free herself.

Whatever that woman is, she makes a sharp motion with her head that tears Giano's uniform; its sturdiness is all that saves her throat from being torn out, she only trails a thin streamer of blood on her path right to your feet.

You leap back in surprise, looking from the broken form of one of the strongest people you know to the monster before you. She absently licks blood from her lips, eyes closing with a soft hum.

"Not bad. I will enjoy you too, of that I am sure."

Giano might already be too late to save, if that bite is all it takes for the zombification to occur.
 
Giano might already be too late to save if that bite is all it takes for the zombification to occur.
I don't believe Bloodfiends can cause zombification that fast on that small wound, though.

But that certainly is a threat to take into account which we did discuss before on the threat of Giano being a "mark" that would allow Elena to track us.

It's why not a lot of people are even considering rescuing Giano instead of taking Rose.
 
There is a chance for her to turn into a normal bloodfiend, and as long as there is a chance, we will try.
 
I don't believe Bloodfiends can cause zombification that fast on that small wound, though.

But that certainly is a threat to take into account which we did discuss before on the threat of Giano being a "mark" that would allow Elena to track us.

It's why not a lot of people are even considering rescuing Giano instead of taking Rose.
Maybe. Might mean that Giano is a ticking time bomb though. Her turning would be a lot worse than just getting marked in many ways.

There is a chance for her to turn into a normal bloodfiend, and as long as there is a chance, we will try.

Also means there is a chance that with the current most voted choice, Rose can get out with Ciel's distraction. But end up getting killed by the zombiefied/bloodfiend Giano.
 
I don't think that's too likely though.

Actually, do we even know for sure that Bloodfiend/Bloodfiend zombies can even be created this way? I thought they required way more blood to be able to do this.

Like how most normal blood fiends need to consume Nosterafu's blood from that mansion to become one.
 
This is the reason why we are stuck in our current situation in the first place. We played "safe" for two whole days chasing after useless leads and ended up wasting our time before getting fucked by the City when it came to the time to actually play it safe and focus on the mission.
To be fair here, if we completed the assassination and obtained the info from the Jade office, we would have been pointed back to the hideout area where Ciel would have probably figured out that the disappearance of the Jade office fixers was linked, and we would have been equipped with the knowledge of a foe like Elena being in the area, instead of going straight into the hideout with aims at a confrontation with a potentially aggressive Rose in play there. All well within the time limit of the mission.

Letting Rose do what she did was what screwed the pooch. And all of us was too distracted by the prescripts to notice that.

I don't think that's too likely though.

Actually, do we even know for sure that Bloodfiend/Bloodfiend zombies can even be created this way? I thought they required way more blood to be able to do this.

Like how most normal blood fiends need to consume Nosterafu's blood from that mansion to become one.
Elena page implies she was in the mansion, so that is probably where she got turned. Then there were those who were distorted into bloodfiends.

The closest we seen Elena doing a zombiefication of sort to anyone is the Vermilion Cross, who we know next to nothing on.

That said, she does say this when Vermillion Cross dies.
"It was just an empty husk. Not a drop of blood remained inside it…"

I was just following the common vampire trope of them turning people with a single bite. But there is a possibility that Elena needs more than that to convert Giano.

Hmm, I suppose it's pretty up in the air in the end. There is a point to be made to get Giano body out so she can't get turned like what happened to the Vermilion Cross too.
 
I don't believe that is something we'll need to worry about right now.

We lack the information to make a correct judgment on something like this.

Best to operate with the idea that Giano only took a small amount of damage and got knocked unconscious instead of her being zombified or bloodfiendified.

It'll distract us from the main goal, which is to save everyone with the least risks involved.
 
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I was just following the common vampire trope of them turning people with a single bite. But there is a possibility that Elena needs more than that to convert Giano.

To be noted, while there is indeed a popular tropes a out needing just one bite, it is far more about zombies than vampires, they tend to be more implicated, at least requiring killing through sucking the blood.

Also, the abnormality that is at the source of bloodfiends is called nosferatu, and seems to be closer to the original dracula tale, and in that one, the vampirization is very, very slow, requiring multiple times taking blood and the target also drinking the vampire's blood.

But that is a valid fear, and I am considering leaving Giano on this basis now.

Edit:

Though what we see of Elena in LoR tends to have her be active and operating on her subjects when changing them, and I think I remember a remark about her putting her veins in them, which she hasn't done here in that case.
 
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Seriously?! That fear isn't valid at all! We don't even have any concrete evidence that it's even possible to be zombified that way!
 
Seriously?! That fear isn't valid at all! We don't even have any concrete evidence that it's even possible to be zombified that way!

Vampire tropes, they do have reinfields and others* that absolutely do work that way in stories, and bloodfiend comes from the very idea of vampirism, and anyway, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, particularly given the context.

*Reinfield in the original Dracula (who gave the name of Reinfields in Dresden files), the zombie vampires of Hellsing, Twilight outright has the *get bitten once and you're going to change unless treated fast* from what I remember….

Elena's dialogues do seems to impliy a more involved transformation from what I remember, but I am very much not sure on that.
 
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To reduce the gravitas of the situation with a bit of humor:

What is with Ciel and its tendency to encounter women that would think: "Damn, I would eat it".
 
I will note that the zombies are, as best as I understand it, corpses that Elena animates with Bloodfiend voodoo of some sort. With Giano being alive and mostly unharmed beyond that small wound, she is in no danger of dying anytime soon unless Elena helps it along.
What is with Ciel and its tendency to encounter women that would think: "Damn, I would eat it".
Maybe Ciel just has a type. Instead of women that could kick their ass, it is women who would literally eat them :V
 
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