How Would You Prefer To Handle Unit Design?

  • Just let the QM do it.

    Votes: 15 30.0%
  • Just choose which techs to use.

    Votes: 23 46.0%
  • Choose which techs and extra features to use limited by size, cost, and upkeep.

    Votes: 9 18.0%
  • Choose individual (fictional) systems to equip units with. Limited by size, cost, upkeep, etc.

    Votes: 2 4.0%
  • None of these.

    Votes: 1 2.0%

  • Total voters
    50
  • Poll closed .
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That depends, I am so willing to undergo a two turn action with 5000.

If we can roll the tech out we should. Not dismiss out of hand.
It will cost a lot more than 5000 a turn. It will also take a long time to complete. If people want to get gene mods they will need to pay for it on their own. When we finish the Union we will have over 500,000,000 people in our nation. We can not and should not pay to add mods to that many people. It seem nice to provide for people but if there is no gain or increased output we are simply losing money and making things worse for those same people in the end.
 
Pure cost. It will be extremely expensive to try and do it for everybody. If private citizens want to get mods they will have to do it on their own the government will not pay for it. We can offer it to certain groups like the military, or even the colonists we start sending out. Any universal spread will need to be done on people's own initiative.
Expensive, but not THAT expensive. If each upgrade costs 10 grand, and we gotta upgrade 1 billion people, we can pay it at 1 trillion dollars (expensive, but not unsurmountably so, 1/15 of RL USA's GDP) a year over ten years. And that'd be us paying for every single one, no one springing for hte payment themselves.
 
It will cost a lot more than 5000 a turn. It will also take a long time to complete. If people want to get gene mods they will need to pay for it on their own. When we finish the Union we will have over 500,000,000 people in our nation. We can not and should not pay to add mods to that many people. It seem nice to provide for people but if there is no gain or increased output we are simply losing money and making things worse for those same people in the end.


Again it all depends on what Isaac plans to do. But handing out gene mods, or at least fixing basic human flaws is exactly the way you want to go to avoid catastrophic inequality and social unrest. We may not be able to afford it but in ME canon the SA managed to deploy much lesser 'fixes' to the human genome on a pretty wide scale, sure soldiers and those who could pay could and would get better ones but we need to at least make a token effort for these things or face catastrophic divides later.

Also a better way to manage this system is to allow people to pay the government to skip forward in line to getting the new gene mods, therefore the rich pay millions to skip to the front which in turn allows those self-same millions to be invested into buying mods for the poor even if they have to wait to get it.
 
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That depends, I am so willing to undergo a two turn action with 5000.
A two turn action with 5000 cost would be more appropriate to giving part of the military genemods than giving them to the entire nation. MELD is insanely expensive even once you drop the cost multiplier to 100%. Universal genemods become substantially more practical once you unlock hereditary modifications, but even that has its limitations. Specifically, hereditary modifications only work if you prevent crossbreeding between the modified and unmodified population. The Ethereals were able to genetically modify entire species because they were okay with genociding the unmodified specimens. You can get around this somewhat with minimalistic modifications, less potent packages consume less MELD, but only to a certain extent.

Note: Some of this may change as you reach very high tech levels, but I'm not going to reveal precisely what.
Expensive, but not THAT expensive. If each upgrade costs 10 grand, and we gotta upgrade 1 billion people, we can pay it at 1 trillion dollars (expensive, but not unsurmountably so, 1/15 of RL USA's GDP) a year over ten years. And that'd be us paying for every single one, no one springing for hte payment themselves.
10 grand is laughably low. 10 million would be a better estimate, although still not necessarily an accurate one.
 
10 grand is laughably low. 10 million would be a better estimate, although still not necessarily an accurate one.
If that's the cost for relatively mundane enhancements, I'm not sure how military grade augmentation would ever be cost effective. Though it lines up surprisingly well with the earlier statement of 5000 upgrading part of our Military (assuming our GDP is comparable to RL US, and our Military Size is comparable). At 10 mill per person, 1.3 million people in the military, that's 13 trillion, or roughly 9500 In Game Money.
 
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If that's the cost for relatively mundane enhancements, I'm not sure how military grade augmentation would ever be cost effective. Though it lines up surprisingly well with the earlier statement of 5000 upgrading part of our Military (assuming our GDP is comparable to RL US, and our Military Size is comparable).
It might not be cost effective to modify the entire military. However, selective modifications to key personnel may yield outsize benefits. For instance, fighter pilots could be given greater resistance to g forces. You can also benefit from the increased force concentration. For instance, you could follow CAU's path and augment your special forces. The CAU commandoes might cost as much as a tank, but you can't airdrop tanks into a combat zone or send them deep into enemy territory on an infiltration mission.
 
It might not be cost effective to modify the entire military. However, selective modifications to key personnel may yield outsize benefits. For instance, fighter pilots could be given greater resistance to g forces. You can also benefit from the increased force concentration. For instance, you could follow CAU's path and augment your special forces. The CAU commandoes might cost as much as a tank, but you can't airdrop tanks into a combat zone or send them deep into enemy territory on an infiltration mission.
Could one use MELD to improve tactical or strategic thinking in some way?
 
Eh, if we can at least lower the cost of basic fixes to the human body, inheritable man 1.1 hotfix rather than radical genemods, to somethings we could roll out to at least people being sent as colonists outside of private corps that would be good. Nothing big, just stuff like removing genetic defects and a minor cleanup to the human genetics in the womb rather than crazy bodysculpting and full renovations. That would be awesome.

However that's not possible as stated so let's move on from that topic

On that note something that doesn't involve more than small amounts of meld at most, prosthetics. Creating a national industry to create and sell prosthetics on the cheap while still turning profit would be a good way to help both with generally improving public health and improvement in that vein that might be cheaper than mass genemods. Giving artificial pancreases to diabetics for low costs or even free for lower income brackets and the like. Also making enhanced prosthetics viable for the masses. Something that should be far easier since it doesnt rely on magical alien bullshit nanomachines but good ol less expensive shit.

Actually, on that note have national industries beyond what exists today become prevalent or is our USA still utterly dominated by private corps? Because national industries might be a thing to look into both for controlling the flow of goods and increasing income.
 
Eh, if we can at least lower the cost of basic fixes to the human body, inheritable man 1.1 hotfix rather than radical genemods, to somethings we could roll out to at least people being sent as colonists outside of private corps that would be good. Nothing big, just stuff like removing genetic defects and a minor cleanup to the human genetics in the womb rather than crazy bodysculpting and full renovations. That would be awesome.

That was already possible in the OTL of ME for the humans even before they met the rest of the Galaxy. We are shaping up to surpass them in every way. So stuff like this will be possible. We just need to unlock the technology for it.

On that note something that doesn't involve more than small amounts of meld at most, prosthetics. Creating a national industry to create and sell prosthetics on the cheap while still turning profit would be a good way to help both with generally improving public health and improvement in that vein that might be cheaper than mass genemods. Giving artificial pancreases to diabetics for low costs or even free for lower income brackets and the like. Also making enhanced prosthetics viable for the masses. Something that should be far easier since it doesnt rely on magical alien bullshit nanomachines but good ol less expensive shit.

Once we open the cybernetics tree these become possible as well.

As for national industies right now it is more of a mix of private industries and national industries. Trying to keep control of an ever-expanding economic industry will just create inefficiency in the long run. Private Enterprise has generally proven to be an effective medium of advancement. So we will keep some things under our control for the most part we will work with private sector.
 
Uywwqdd
That was already possible in the OTL of ME for the humans even before they met the rest of the Galaxy. We are shaping up to surpass them in every way. So stuff like this will be possible. We just need to unlock the technology for it.



Once we open the cybernetics tree these become possible as well.

As for national industies right now it is more of a mix of private industries and national industries. Trying to keep control of an ever-expanding economic industry will just create inefficiency in the long run. Private Enterprise has generally proven to be an effective medium of advancement. So we will keep some things under our control for the most part we will work with private sector.
Yay!

As for national industries I don't mean to ban private industry or even attempt economic dominance. Capitalism is working well enough. However, a national industry, or would it be more appropriate to say company, should turn a profit and allow us to assure availability of service and have a degree of control over sectors, especially emerging ones.

It's less a nationalize everything thing and more a here is this profitable thing that could help assure quality of life and thus be better for our people, maybe doing stuff like increasing growth as people can rest assured that there will be a certain quality of life.

That's a win win. Not about beating competition.

Like we would have a national shipping company, like we do, that would assure service, which it does, and ought to turn profit if not as huge as private, which ours should but fails to do but thats okay, but private companies would be totally able to enter the ring, which they do, and allowed to outdo the national, which they do, and turn greater profits, which they do. The profit is there, it should be at least if done right, but it also assures avaibibility that everyone can expect a standard.
 
That was already possible in the OTL of ME for the humans even before they met the rest of the Galaxy. We are shaping up to surpass them in every way. So stuff like this will be possible. We just need to unlock the technology for it.



Once we open the cybernetics tree these become possible as well.

As for national industies right now it is more of a mix of private industries and national industries. Trying to keep control of an ever-expanding economic industry will just create inefficiency in the long run. Private Enterprise has generally proven to be an effective medium of advancement. So we will keep some things under our control for the most part we will work with private sector.
1. Really minor genetic stuff like removing lethal recessives will be less expensive. It's the 'armour the spines, fix the eyes, cure cancer, improve the nervous system' packages that are impractical at foreseeable tech levels.
2. The advanced surgery tier is literally prosthetics and improved hospitals, so probably exactly what you want.
3. You don't have any national industries, it's all privately owned. The only exception is the military, which sometimes blurs the line.
 
1. Really minor genetic stuff like removing lethal recessives will be less expensive. It's the 'armour the spines, fix the eyes, cure cancer, improve the nervous system' packages that are impractical at foreseeable tech levels.
2. The advanced surgery tier is literally prosthetics and improved hospitals, so probably exactly what you want.
3. You don't have any national industries, it's all privately owned. The only exception is the military, which sometimes blurs the line.
Yay! So close to such cool stuff.

Also, wondering if would we be able to take actions to create and expand nationally owned companies at least for basics and essentials and stuff. Stuff like food, medicine, basic consumer goods, electronics, etc.

Not kickibg out private industry but assuring access and a minor degree of control while turnung some profit.

I would imagine that such things would help with expansion and growth at the least.
 
Excellent summary of my own thoughts on the matter as well, I think I dropped the word Torpedo Boat Expy in the discord somewhere, the one further argument I'd like to make that may not have been completely clear is that the corvettes in question would hit about as hard as a frigate and have shields not too far below those of a frigate, these Corvettes are basically all reactor, gun, ammunition and sensor and the lowered mass would make it more maneuverable than any frigate as well.

Edit:
Also, it wouldn't be completely out of place either: this is a setting that uses the term Dreadnought to describe polities most powerful ships with its main guns being locked into a forward facing position.
I mean, at that point- why not just avoid doubling up on hulls and increase the size until it's capable of independent operations? It's exactly that that lead to destroyers becoming such a predominant escort class over earlier concepts. It seems we've gone from really short legged gun cutters and kinda circled back to the destroyer escort concept from WW2. Because if you are cutting back on crew requirements and endurance, we'd need a dedicated parasite tender for any fleet actions and we'd still need frigates for ranging, reconnaissance, and long range patrols. So I'd doubt we'd see all that much utility in putting them in a fleet's order of battle.

It might not be cost effective to modify the entire military. However, selective modifications to key personnel may yield outsize benefits. For instance, fighter pilots could be given greater resistance to g forces. You can also benefit from the increased force concentration. For instance, you could follow CAU's path and augment your special forces. The CAU commandoes might cost as much as a tank, but you can't airdrop tanks into a combat zone or send them deep into enemy territory on an infiltration mission.
To be fair on why we shouldn't go the CAU route... our special forces are currently looking to be XCOM and we certainly couldn't make small scale special forces superior to anything they've got. I also doubt we're going to invest in too many other branches of special forces outside of more organic outgrowths of the Army like the Rangers. Although massively augmenting a few elite airborne regiments should be pretty feasible.

Which means in about a decade, once we likely have compact equipment and fusion engines- we probably need a more specialized and streamlined paratroop/combat transport than the Desert Ranger.
 
I agree that extensive augmentation on a large scale is implausible at the moment. After Earth is unified and with at least Sol colonized? Maybe. Augmenting elites (especially after we get union with CAU) and minor genetic improvements to fix eye issues, eliminate harmful genetic diseases and eliminating prenatal syndromes by means of early identification for a quick abortion or gene therapy fix on the other hand are far more plausible on the short term.

Edit: Also, the Protean cache (which we can presumably exhaust quickly thanks to Psionics) may have some informaton. Javik mentions that the Rachni were used as war beasts by his people, no doubt extremely augmented.
 
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I mean, at that point- why not just avoid doubling up on hulls and increase the size until it's capable of independent operations? It's exactly that that lead to destroyers becoming such a predominant escort class over earlier concepts. It seems we've gone from really short legged gun cutters and kinda circled back to the destroyer escort concept from WW2. Because if you are cutting back on crew requirements and endurance, we'd need a dedicated parasite tender for any fleet actions and we'd still need frigates for ranging, reconnaissance, and long range patrols. So I'd doubt we'd see all that much utility in putting them in a fleet's order of battle.

That's the point, the entire thought exercise was trying to rationalize carriers in and this is what came up. No 'traditional' atmospheric fighter configuration is effective in space.
 
That's the point, the entire thought exercise was trying to rationalize carriers in and this is what came up. No 'traditional' atmospheric fighter configuration is effective in space.
While I'm wholeheartedly in agreement about their actual practicality, I'm not denying their place in a space opera, I just don't think we have to or ought to. When it's gotten to the point it's more novel to avoid space fighters then they lose the luster that made it cool to justify them anyways.
 
That's the point, the entire thought exercise was trying to rationalize carriers in and this is what came up. No 'traditional' atmospheric fighter configuration is effective in space.

The only type of spaceship I could think of which would carry atmospheric capable fighters would be a ship dedicated to carrying ground forces for a planetary invasion, like the modern Wasp class LHDs and Tarawa class LHAs. Basically it would carry fighters that were optimised for combat in atmosphere but could be launched from space into the atmosphere to secure air superiority to cover the ground forces' landing. Anyone think this could be viable?
 
[x] Plan Trade, Orbits, and Surgery

I like this plan, on another note, I have no idea how your tech tree even works QM, is there a page on the front that explains or something?
 
The only type of spaceship I could think of which would carry atmospheric capable fighters would be a ship dedicated to carrying ground forces for a planetary invasion, like the modern Wasp class LHDs and Tarawa class LHAs. Basically it would carry fighters that were optimised for combat in atmosphere but could be launched from space into the atmosphere to secure air superiority to cover the ground forces' landing. Anyone think this could be viable?
Oh definitely, but even then I'd imagine it would deploy landing craft and aircraft from upper atmosphere while providing close ortillery support. LEO is still at least about a thousand kilometers, so you'd probably want the sturdier transport to cover some of that distance and suppress as many ground batteries before launching it's passengers as possible. It only makes sense to design an assault transport to have integrated combined arms support.
 
[x] Plan Trade, Orbits, and Surgery

I like this plan, on another note, I have no idea how your tech tree even works QM, is there a page on the front that explains or something?

The tech tree shows us everything we know exists for those paths. The blue is technology we have already researched, and the white is technology we haven't finished yet. If a technology has lines coming to it with arrows then it requires the techs that those lines came from to unlock. Once we reach the current end of a tree we get to see the next tech in the tree. To get a more complete tree we need to get in contact with someone that already has that tree and technology.
 
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