A Dream of Spring (FSN/Campione Quest)

In general, i would advise against reading LNs. They are already subpar in quality and translation doesn't exactly help.

Unless you really like work, of course.
 
That's what other Campiones do by the way. And you know a common them in them? They're all sociopaths. For once, why not try to use diplomacy to solve the problems? This is Shirou here too, he always tries the diplomacy unless it doesn't work in which case he would throw his body into the problem.

Who knows, it might even work. If it didn't then we'll fight him normally. Losing initiative? Dude, he was the one who had the initiative from the first place, he's the one who ambushed and attacked us. Heck, apologizing might even lead to him losing that advantage due to sheer bafflement or sheer anger. I know that in either case he would stop to say a few, which would lead to an opening for us, minor as it might be.
You know what Shirou is right? An inherently broken human being that by this point probably lost a good amount of sense from using Archer's arm.

Shirou is a psychopath of his own design in that he takes everything to the very extreme. Want to help other? Sure, let's fucking crank that shit to 11 and just help everyone uncaring of whether or not they're taking advantage of you. Want to save other? Sure, let's fucking cover a superhuman spiritual construct with own body as another bigger, more superhuman spiritual construct is swinging his gigantic axe sword at her. Want to abandon everything that you believe in your entire life in order to protect the woman you love? Well shit son, you better make sure not a damn thing even breathe a wrong way in her direction, god knows you just went and murder the incarnation of world's evil and fisticuffed a goddamn zombie priest not an hour ago for her.
 
You know what Shirou is right? An inherently broken human being that by this point probably lost a good amount of sense from using Archer's arm.

Shirou is a psychopath of his own design in that he takes everything to the very extreme. Want to help other? Sure, let's fucking crank that shit to 11 and just help everyone uncaring of whether or not they're taking advantage of you. Want to save other? Sure, let's fucking cover a superhuman spiritual construct with own body as another bigger, more superhuman spiritual construct is swinging his gigantic axe sword at her. Want to abandon everything that you believe in your entire life in order to protect the woman you love? Well shit son, you better make sure not a damn thing even breathe a wrong way in her direction, god knows you just went and murder the incarnation of world's evil and fisticuffed a goddamn zombie priest not an hour ago for her.
this is the best explanation of Shirou distortion i have seen to date
 
That's a little extreme as characterization goes. Shirou can still tell right from wrong - if Sakura (SPOILERS) kills Rin, he gives up because she's gone 'somewhere he cannot follow.' He's not a monster - he's achingly human, and that's the tragedy. It's why Archer went back in time to kill his younger self. The path he chose was one that he could not walk until the end. If anything, he's the opposite of a psychopath: no matter what route you take, he always wants to see people happy.

That's his core. That's who he is. A little boy who ran away from the screams of the dying and thought the only way to atone was to save others and give them the happiness he doesn't deserve.

He's definitely distorted though. One of the most surprising scenes (to me anyway) was when Taiga was threatened by Caster in - I think it was UBW? Anyway, she's there, so's Rin, and in that scene Shirou thinks that 'an arm would be a small price to pay' in exchange for Taiga's life, which is unsurprising; and that if Rin tries anything that will put Taiga at risk he will [------] her, which definitely was. It's blanked out, but it's strongly implied that the word that's supposed to be there is kill, only that it contradicts his ideals so he's thinking and not thinking of it at the same time.

This, from the most straightforwardly heroic route.

No, this is not a normal boy at all. He's full of subtle contradictions, because his extreme ideals cannot help but contradict one another. To a certain extent, all heroes are self-sacrificing. Nasu just took this to the logical extreme and while it gave birth to super annoying Shirou in the Deen anime, in UBW and HF you start to see that his apparent shounen shallowness is a mask for something deeper, and more disturbing. It's a neat trick to pull off: it's always Shirou, but place him in an extreme situation and he does not hesitate and you're left echoing the other characters: 'you're not quite right in the head, Shirou'.

Of course, very few people then apply this to Arturia who has largely the same ideals as he does. Ufotable is having so much fun with paralleling the two, it's amazing.

On that cheerful note, if I'm counting these votes right, I think the 'bow and apologize' vote has something like a 2 vote lead.

Where's the program that everyone uses to count votes? It's high time I invested in this arcane technology.
 
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Vote tally:
##### 3.18
[x] fight
No. of votes: 13
frostgiant, staplesdex2, hunter09, Fluffiness, Varano, Tel Janin Aman, Faceless Goon, Anasurimbor, kellanved, A Nation's Virtue, Neo-Chan, joebob, paintedspear

[X] Bow and apologize for disturbing him.
No. of votes: 14
Selias, Feng Lengshun, wingstrike96, Tiresias, Snuzzy, shiki11, veekie, Unelemental, FelSpite, Meh, Valor, LordPanther14, Bear Templar, khoa36

[X] Bow and apologize for disturbing him
-[X]At the first sign of him still being hostile, impale with extreme prejudice.
No. of votes: 1
burningclaw2
 
Well, you guys have until I go track it down to vote.
http://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/vote-tally-program.199/

It's a sticky in the Quest forum. Also, you can Google "sufficient velocity tally program."

Vote tally:
##### 3.18
[x] fight
No. of votes: 13
frostgiant, staplesdex2, hunter09, Fluffiness, Varano, Tel Janin Aman, Faceless Goon, Anasurimbor, kellanved, A Nation's Virtue, Neo-Chan, joebob, paintedspear

[X] Bow and apologize for disturbing him.
No. of votes: 14
Selias, Feng Lengshun, wingstrike96, Tiresias, Snuzzy, shiki11, veekie, Unelemental, FelSpite, Meh, Valor, LordPanther14, Bear Templar, khoa36

[X] Bow and apologize for disturbing him
-[X]At the first sign of him still being hostile, impale with extreme prejudice.
No. of votes: 1
burningclaw2
Man, that was a close vote.
 
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He's not a monster - he's achingly human, and that's the tragedy. It's why Archer went back in time to kill his younger self. The path he chose was one that he could not walk until the end. If anything, he's the opposite of a psychopath: no matter what route you take, he always wants to see people happy.

Everything that was human about Shirou was burned away in the fire where Kiritsugu saved him. What's left of him is just an empty husk trying to strive for that smile in Kiritsugu's face that was imprinted upon him. Yes, he wants to see other people happy, but he's doing so at the cost to himself as if he himself doesn't matter at all, because the life that he has now exists solely for the reason of trying to add in net positive into the world. He doesn't gain happiness from helping others, it's just a function of the machine that he is to just add net positive into the world to make up for the survivor's guilt that he received from the Fuyuki fire. In a sense, he's like an anti-Kirei in that he finds joy in making other happy, but when all is said and done, he's still empty inside.

It only take being made into a goddamn counter guardian for him to realize how fucking retarded that way of thinking is, and Shirou being Shirou, obviously decide to solve that problem by taking it to extreme as usual. Made a bad decision in the past? Sure, let's just go back in time and kill your younger self to prevent yourself for making that decision, and hope against all hope that the action will cause enough paradox to wipe you out of existence!

He may not be a textbook case of psychopath, but there is level of insanity to his way of functioning that can be attributed as that, and frankly I'm just too fucking tired of bad writers throwing around the d-word to even bother using it.

Keep in mind that this is a guy who does the circuit creation procedure nightly for years and all the pain that goes with it, while gaining no actual improvement on his actual skill as a magic user.
 
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It only take being made into a goddamn counter guardian for him to realize how fucking retarded that way of thinking is, and Shirou being Shirou, obviously decide to solve that problem by taking it to extreme as usual. Made a bad decision in the past? Sure, let's just go back in time and kill your younger self to prevent yourself for making that decision, and hope against all hope that the action will cause enough paradox to wipe you out of existence!
You make it sound like he had any other options. His choices are to kill his younger self and hope for the best, or continue serving Alaya until it (or he) ceases to exist.
 
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:Citation Needed:

I remember watching that scene not too long ago, and I really don't recall anything of the sort.



5:50 onward

Saber stated that it's useless to do that since he already exists as a guardian, then Archer just replied on how there are chance, no matter how miniscule for it to be possible, but at this point, he just doesn't care about the result, his purpose became "taking out my anger out on a kid named Emiya Shirou, the one who will become a clown as a result of his stupid ideal"
 


5:50 onward

Saber stated that it's useless to do that since he already exists as a guardian, then Archer just replied on how there are chance, no matter how miniscule for it to be possible, but at this point, he just doesn't care about the result, his purpose became "taking out my anger out on a kid named Emiya Shirou, the one who will become a clown as a result of his stupid ideal"

He's stating that it's both.
 
Ah, I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I'd love to have this discussion. Unfortunately, I'm under some pretty brutal time constraints so it's literally 'characterization fanwank' or 'update' and I know which one everyone would choose if they had the choice.

Anyway, given that I cannot participate in this fanwank, no one gets to participate in this fanwank. >:E

Let's all agree to put this on the backburner until I have more time to get poetical about Shirou's contradictions. There's (possibly literally) a million other places you can have this conversation where I don't have to feel obliged to jump in.
 
[X] Bow and apologize for disturbing him.

It's the Shirou thing to do.

----------------

Also: Anybody else worried the Shirou might be a God-egg1​? Angry Mangy is the representation of all the evils in the world, the new Authority absorbs corruption and can influence his mind. If he lives long enough and takes in enough evil, will Shirou become/be subsumed by Angra?



1​I doubt this is a real term I just needed a name for it.
 
[X] Bow and apologize for disturbing him.

It's the Shirou thing to do.

----------------

Also: Anybody else worried the Shirou might be a God-egg1​? Angry Mangy is the representation of all the evils in the world, the new Authority absorbs corruption and can influence his mind. If he lives long enough and takes in enough evil, will Shirou become/be subsumed by Angra?



1​I doubt this is a real term I just needed a name for it.
Angra Mainyu became known as that when his actual name was struck from the Vesta, basically the Akashiac Records on people. With his name struck I think that also removed a good portion of the human that Angra Mainyu once was(this is speculation so don't quote me on this).

Also Angra Mainyu had All the Evil's in the World literally forced onto him. Not only was the poor guy tortured to the breaking point repeatedly but he experienced what it was like to be the victim of literally every sin. He was literally broken every which way. Robbing him of the ability to feel anything but pure hatred.
 
1.2 Enter Fudo Myo-o
His words were a sword suspended above our necks. My eyes involuntarily flicked towards Sakura's limp, unconscious form.

"Rider, run."

She took off without a sound, the air displaced by her passage tousling my hair and making my torn clothes flap. Between Sakura's safety and mine, she'd always prioritize Sakura's. It was easy to trust her, knowing that.

Despite having Illya in my arms, my right hand started to move towards my left shoulder, as if to loosen a cloth that wasn't there. My eyes were on Fudo Myo-o, watching as he began the incantation of a mantra, tracing the shape of his sword of fire. It was not a Noble Phantasm, but rather a true weapon of divinity, forged in the heat of samsara, then tempered in the diamond realm, and gifted to its mightiest protector.

"Namah samanta vajranam..."

Or was it? I could see echoes of its history. Enough to trace it, but it was like looking at someone's reflection in a puddle of water after someone had splashed through it.

"Shirou," Illya snapped, breaking my trance-like calm. "He isn't an enemy you can fight - and if you fight here there will be two of them. We need to leave. Now."

I blinked.

What was I... what had I been doing?

"...canda maharosana... these are the flames which purify evil! By my name, I banish thee from this realm! Perish, O Rakasha Raja!"

Fudo Myo-o brought his hands together: the sound echoed like a thunderclap, making my bones vibrate.

"Shirou!" Illya said, her voice full of a shrill, unfamiliar fear. "JUMP!"

I leapt backwards desperately, my feet skidding underneath me as I sought to maintain my balance. It was madness how far I could go: this went beyond Archer's arm reinforcing my body; I was doing it without the aid of any magecraft, a hundred feet within a single unexpected kick. It wasn't enough: in front of me, the ground erupted into a geyser of fire and molten rock, three, four stories high. The heat of it forced the breath out of my lungs and drove the water straight out of my pores. I turned and leaped again, feeling the skin on my back char and peel away.

I hugged Illya close, knowing that it wouldn't be enough, but forcing myself to hold onto some thin, vestigial hope that she would be alright.

If I had Rider's speed...

"Trace On."

Quick as a thought, her nail and chain appeared in my left hand. An oily shadow curled around links of the chain then vanished as I grabbed onto it. As a weapon, it lacked sophistication or grace. It was unwieldy, awkward, something cobbled together using bric-and-brac found scavenging the bodies of a thousand heroes that had come to slay a monster that had never deserved the title. It was more a tool than a weapon proper: she used it to fish for food on her lonely, abandoned island as she mourned her dead sisters. Medusa had never needed a weapon other than her eyes.

Rider made up for its deficiencies in sheer superhuman skill and power.

I breathed in and ran.

I ran as only as a Servant could, a blur of motion that would allow me to scale the side of a building as easily as I could sprint on level ground. Then I ran faster than that, despite the darkness that could only exist in a forest at night, my eyes picked out the trail that Rider had left for me, barely pausing as I made it from tree to tree. My magic felt wrong, like at any moment I would visit upon myself the pain of forging a new circuit, but despite that fear I suffered no ill effects.

It was unbelievable. Even when I had killed Berserker, I had only drawn out a fraction of his monstrous strength. Just enough to kill the him that was blind, mad, and maimed - and even then I had required him to pause.

This was a replication of a mystery that went beyond the limits of my ability. It was a replication that went beyond Archer's - it was like my sudden tracing of Excalibur. Impossible. I didn't stop to question my good fortune though, I had no time for it.

I caught sight of Fuyuki City proper - we were nearly through the strip of forest separating the temple from the shopping district when a small hand started grasping feebly at mine.

"Sh-shirou..." Illya choked.

I slowed, springing off the tree and to the ground below. Despite Rider's skills thrumming through me, I misjudged my strength and nearly buried myself ankle deep as I skid to a stop in the dirt.

As I yanked my foot out I realized that I was, in a way, wrong. I had not misjudged. Despite the billowing dirt and dust, this sort of thing wasn't even on the level of an inconvenience for someone like Rider. It was like splashing through a puddle in order to catch a child falling off a tree: you didn't stop to think about your shoes.

Illya took in a gulping series of breaths. I was surprised to notice she hadn't suffered anything worse than some singed hairs from the fire. My back still felt like it was burning. I ignored it.

"Shirou - sorry - that was - I couldn't -"

We were going so fast she hadn't been able to breathe.

"Sorry," I began to apologize.

The dirt beneath my feet grew warm.

Her eyes widened, as did mine. I shot off faster than an arrow, traveling a hundred meters before the ground could explode upwards in a column burning rock, incinerating the dirt, grass and trees above. I narrowed my eyes, looked back: I only caught a glimpse through the thicket of trees - we'd traveled well over three kilometers in under a minute - but Fudo Myo-o was still stationed at the cave entrance, the flames surrounding him a burning, crimson red. It wasn't especially hard to see him: with how dark it was in the forest, he lit the cave entrance like a beacon.

I was surprised to see that half the forest wasn't on fire : despite the extreme nature of the attack it was a self-contained one, burning itself out in moments.

I switched directions, heading away from Rider, towards the school. I couldn't be sure of how his magic worked, but if appearances were to be believed he was some flavor of buddha and so that meant anything was possible. In Journey to the West, Sun Wukong had tried to leap out of the palm of Buddha's hand and despite flying for several thousand kilometers, never managed it. If Fudo Myo-o could attack at that sort of distance, I had to draw his attention away from them. I moved a little slower, enough that Illya could take in shallow breaths, but not enough so that the flames could ever hope to touch us.

I tried to think. It was difficult, far more than I expected. My thoughts kept circling the fact that I should have given Illya to Rider, that I should have listened to Rider and retreated straightaway, or even tried apologizing to Fudo Myo-o. Instead, my first instinct had been to fight. Why?

I shook my head.

"How is he attacking us?" I asked, focusing on the problem at hand.

Illya had to shout to make herself heard. "Not us. You."

"Ah?"

"It was weak before, but now you're giving off about the same amount of miasma as Sakura did. It's a guess, but as a guardian deity he's probably targeting you."

She could only speak in brief bursts. I puzzled it together.

I wasn't sure what to think about her observation though, and decided to put it aside for now. No good would come about worrying about it here.

"Are you sure?"

"It's a guess, Shirou," she said, and despite her volume, it was with the same dry asperity Tohsaka had while teaching me. "To manage attack after attack of this level so easily, even if he is merely the product of, or a magus with delusions of godhood, his credentials are extraordinarily good. It could be clairvoyance, some form of limited omniscience, the use of familiars... if I were to bet on anything though it would be Rider's instincts. This may be a world where the Age of Gods never ended."

I thought of Excalibur.

"It's an amazing attack, but..."

"I only know the bare bones of Japanese mythology," Illya said. "The possibility existed that a monk would be chosen to fight in the Holy Grail War. You'd probably know better than I if this was appropriate to his myth."

I considered that. "...maybe?"

We dodged another blast of fire.

I came to a decision. If it was only me he was after... "I'm going to go talk to Fudo Myo-o."

"What?"

"I'm going to talk to Fudo Myo-o," I repeated.

She furrowed her brow. "Shirou?"

I broke out of the forest, leaping over the school's back fence and onto the bike rack's roof. I slid along the tiles before hitting the ground and cutting my way through the campus towards the dojo. It was different than the Homurahara High I remembered, but still recognizable. Though the buildings were empty at this time of the night, I still felt bad for taking the risk that a gaggle of students had made their way here as some sort of test of courage.

Too many of those sorts of ifs.

I made it to the front of the dojo, and carefully put her down. "Stay here, Illya. I'll be back for you."

She sighed. "Shirou, I'm not going to..." then she shook her head, gave me a clumsy smile, "Okay. I'll wait. But you better be back soon!"

"I promise," I told her.

I vaulted onto the dojo's roof, then onto the street outside. Even from here I could see Fudo Myo-o, his flames burning in the distance like foxfire. I started sprinting down the road then up the stone steps that lead to the temple, Rider's nail and chain held tightly in my grip.

I made sure he could see me coming. I didn't care that the stones themselves were pulverized as I set foot on them. I didn't care that I barely dodged his next attack.

I didn't care that getting within a hundred feet of him meant having my skin peel and flake away.

I prayed. I prayed as hard as I could then more.

I stopped at the edge of the clearing, dropped Rider's chain. It was a symbolic gesture, but I had to hope it meant something.

"Fudo Myo-o," I said. I got on my knees, put my head on the ground. Even from here, I could feel my blood bubble and boil, hear the hiss as my eyes dried as fast as they bled. "Please, forgive my transgression. Please," my voice broke, cracking as the heat invaded my throat. I could taste copper. "I do not wish to fight with you. I just - I -"

There was a moment of utter stillness from him. For an instant, neither heat nor anger touched me.

Then a long, long breath.

I looked up.

It was dark. Fudo Myo-o was gone.

--------------

[ ] go see Illya
[ ] go find Rider
[ ] something else (write-in)

==> NEXT

GM's note: Although I'm not 100% satisfied with it, this has been written for more than a day, and as I nearly lost it once, I'm going to take that as a sign that I should post it irrespective of my desire to maintain an at minimum 1:1 posting ratio with my worm/gamer quest. I know you guys probably wanted to see him apologize right away, but it didn't quite match what I wanted from this update, so I took inspiration from the other half of the voters and pushed it back a bit.

Hope you liked it anyway. *_*
 
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