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A Blaze Alights (RWBY/CKII, After The End)

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Spectrum said:
Why is resource inspection not part of their normal duties? What kind of camp are we even dealing with here? It seems to be down to basically Cado + Lyra + 4 people + a vehicle or two. This can't be that large a camp, actually.

How and why was...actually, you know what, first...



Uhhh, can you resolve this?

Carlos was on guard that night.
Carlos is the one who noticed it first.
But "one of the retinue awoke" to discover the water.

So...how does that work?


Yes, exactly, thank you.
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Resource inspection doesn't cover checking the structure of the tank. It's built so you aren't supposed to have to check it for cracks, because it doesn't crack on accident. The gauge for remaining water was compromised to disguise the thievery (as it reads having some left in the tank despite being totally dry). The camp is so small now because you only needed an honor guard of about a dozen, so you didn't have too many supplies (or money for supplies) to make you a high value-low risk target. The couple of deaths from the disease left you with four, which is still doable and enough to turn away or escape from most dangers.

Order of events:
Carlos was first shift, and Anders was second shift. Night guards make up lost sleep during the evening, when you're not traveling. Anders wakes up the camp, Carlos has canteen duty, there's no water to fill the canteens with, you're brought in.

Let's try this one more time. I stabbed you in the back in the field; complete surprise. The sergeant punishes you and the rest of the team for getting stabbed in the back by a traitor. That is the rough equivalent of what you're claiming you should be allowed to do. This is not a training exercise. You do not punish the group for the failings of an individual in the middle of a campaign.
 
Let me also point out that the military arguement doesn't hold. This isn't a military campaign.

Anyway, just because a military leader can unilaterally condemn the entire group as punishment for one person, it doesn't mean that they will not be completely hated for it.

Now, the unfortunate fact is that we're not just a military leader, but a queen. Our rank requires us to act in a fair and just way, and our culture forces us to comply with that behavior. A ruler that is unjust is hated, and considering the powers of our vassals, being hated is the last thing we want.

While I like the fact that you guys are trying to keep things open, we need to be decisive. If we make the wrong choice, we might lose a little prestige. But if we act indecisive and simply spread the punishment to two people, rumors will spread that we are arbitrary, and don't care if criminals get their just deserts.

Half measures are going to be the things that our enemies will pull up to rally support against us, even if they are well meaning half measures. Personally, I'd rather be wrong than set things up for a rebellion later on.
 
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Powerofmind said:
Resource inspection doesn't cover checking the structure of the tank. It's built so you aren't supposed to have to check it for cracks, because it doesn't crack on accident.
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It's supposed to be fairly sturdy, then? Does the whole seem particularly unique or could anyone have made it using tools they would be expecting to carry? How much noise should it have made to break? Does anyone have an activated Aura and a relevant Semblance that could have done this?
Powerofmind said:
The gauge for remaining water was compromised to disguise the thievery (as it reads having some left in the tank despite being totally dry).
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What was the nature of the compromise of the gauge? Can Lyra ascertain whether it is fixed to always show a certain value or if it is offset by a certain amount?
Powerofmind said:
Let's try this one more time. I stabbed you in the back in the field; complete surprise. The sergeant punishes you and the rest of the team for getting stabbed in the back by a traitor. That is the rough equivalent of what you're claiming you should be allowed to do. This is not a training exercise. You do not punish the group for the failings of an individual in the middle of a campaign.
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Actually, yes, these things kind of do happen. One of the key watchwords of security is that you are supposed to keep an eye on your own as well, because you don't know when one of them might turn or go crazy or anything else.

In the middle of a campaign, well, perhaps not harsh punishment because you need everyone still, but afterwards I would definitely expect to get hit with reviews, administrative black marks, punishment details, and so on.
 
Spectrum said:
Actually, yes, these things kind of do happen. One of the key watchwords of security is that you are supposed to keep an eye on your own as well, because you don't know when one of them might turn or go crazy or anything else.

In the middle of a campaign, well, perhaps not harsh punishment because you need everyone still, but afterwards I would definitely expect to get hit with reviews, administrative black marks, punishment details, and so on.
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Not really. Unless there's some reason to suspect one of your own, you're not supposed to keep a constant eye on them, since you're supposed to be able to trust them. Suspecting your comrades and having them watch each other like hawks does horrible things to morale and unit cohesion. And this is not a military campaign, so unless we can show that the water thief succeeded because the guards were shrinking in their duty, it wouldn't be proper to punish them.
 
I wonder if we can get away with a whole "the culprit is known to me" (I'm channeling Blofeld here) then lean on all the retinue to scavenge for water, and deal with this when we reach civilization.
 
Spectrum said:
It's supposed to be fairly sturdy, then? Does the whole seem particularly unique or could anyone have made it using tools they would be expecting to carry? How much noise should it have made to break? Does anyone have an activated Aura and a relevant Semblance that could have done this?

What was the nature of the compromise of the gauge? Can Lyra ascertain whether it is fixed to always show a certain value or if it is offset by a certain amount?

Actually, yes, these things kind of do happen. One of the key watchwords of security is that you are supposed to keep an eye on your own as well, because you don't know when one of them might turn or go crazy or anything else.

In the middle of a campaign, well, perhaps not harsh punishment because you need everyone still, but afterwards I would definitely expect to get hit with reviews, administrative black marks, punishment details, and so on.
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The hole was probably made with a plain old welding torch, from the look of it. Mostly indistinguishable from an open fire or other sounds of the night, but it was probably done over the course of several attempts. It was very deliberate.

The fixing on the gauge is an offset. The pressure was adjusted to reflect a higher value than it was supposed to.

Unless you're an evil overlord, the equivalent of 'shoot the messenger' is never the correct response to something going wrong. That is my final response to the 'punish the guards' argument.
AltumCurio said:
I wonder if we can get away with a whole "the culprit is known to me" (I'm channeling Blofeld here) then lean on all the retinue to scavenge for water, and deal with this when we reach civilization.
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You could try, but you'd still have to punish someone then. They're not going to magically forget that they wanted someone dead or severely punished. Regardless of your choice you'll have no trouble supplying water for the two or three days you need to get to civilization.
 
Icipall said:
Not really. Unless there's some reason to suspect one of your own, you're not supposed to keep a constant eye on them, since you're supposed to be able to trust them. Suspecting your comrades and having them watch each other like hawks does horrible things to morale and unit cohesion.
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You just live with it. "Watch what everyone else is doing", "report suspicious behavior from your fellows" just becomes the new watchwords. The main thing is everything should be done with at least two pairs of eyes on it, explicitly so one person alone can't get up to mischief.
Powerofmind said:
The hole was probably made with a plain old welding torch, from the look of it. Mostly indistinguishable from an open fire or other sounds of the night, but it was probably done over the course of several attempts. It was very deliberate.
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Does everyone here have welding torch experience? How many torches are there?
Powerofmind said:
The fixing on the gauge is an offset. The pressure was adjusted to reflect a higher value than it was supposed to.
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Is there a water log of measurements? If so/or based on memory, does anyone recall it going up unexpectedly after accounting for foraged water?
 
Spectrum said:
You just live with it. "Watch what everyone else is doing", "report suspicious behavior from your fellows" just becomes the new watchwords. The main thing is everything should be done with at least two pairs of eyes on it, explicitly so one person alone can't get up to mischief.
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That's not the same as keeping eye on their every move and suspecting someone of being up to no good. Unless you're doing that, it is not unprecedented for no one to notice if someone does something stupid.
 
Spectrum said:
Does everyone here have welding torch experience? How many torches are there?

Is there a water log of measurements? If so/or based on memory, does anyone recall it going up unexpectedly after accounting for foraged water?
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Some minimal mechanical experience is unsurprising for educated and trained people like your retinue. The use of a blowtorch doesn't change much.

The amount of change a day's ration for the group should cause is marked next to the gauge. There's been no indication it's been tampered with, so everything that was done was likely done in the night during the culprit's shift.
 
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Pilgrimage of Lyra, 4
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    • Pilgrimage of Lyra Zhao-Fan 4​

    "As punishment for your actions, Carlos of House Rild, you will not only be locked in a car during the night, but you will also be reduced to half food rations," the man nearly shouts as you give your verdict. There are some grumbles from your other guards calling you soft. "This punishment will extend until the first settled village is encountered, or until such time I deem you fit to return to your duties."

    You overhear Anders as he grapples Carlos and prepares to chain him to the backseat of a car. "You're lucky The Lady is merciful, bastard, but I'll be warning everyone about this when we return."

    (Lyra is Kind)

    ---

    As you cross the border into Vellum, you come across a small hamlet, where you replenish your food and water. While there, you come across a small group of people from the west who are resting after crossing the desert, pilgrims like yourself, who wish to join with your group for some time. They offer you a collection of somewhat valuable trinkets if you will take them and help protect them from the dangers of travel.

    [] Take them along for the agreed compensation.
    [] Take them along for free.
    [] Politely refuse, you have a timetable to keep.

    ---

    Not long after your meeting with the pilgrims, you return to the local inn and garage to find that a careless attendant accidentally ignited some fuel, blowing one of your cars into another and ruining both of them, along with several other local prominent persons' vehicles. The damage is very serious, and even with the help of your aura it will take some time to complete repairs.

    [] Stay here and repair the damaged cars.
    -[] Demand free use of the local machine shop to do so.
    -[] Demand additional recompense for damages.
    --[] Write-in the form of recompense you'd prefer.
    [] Strip the wrecks for spare parts.
    -[] Demand free use of the local machine shop to do so.
    -[] Demand additional recompense for damages.
    --[] Write-in the form of recompense you'd prefer.
    [] Sell the wrecks and get moving.
    -[] Demand additional recompense for damages.
    --[] Write-in the form of recompense you'd prefer.
    [] Write-in? Perhaps you only want to take apart one car?

    AN: A little good, a little bad...
     
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    • So, did we get the right guy? Or is that something that's never going to be revealed?

    Hmm, Kind is fitting for us, but I'm not sure whether or not this will make other carrion lords think we're weak.

    @Powerofmind
    What exactly are those trinkets they're offering? And how long it would take to fix the cars and who were the other people whose cars got wrecked?
     
    Icipall said:
    So, did we get the right guy? Or is that something that's never going to be revealed?

    Hmm, Kind is fitting for us, but I'm not sure whether or not this will make other carrion lords think we're weak.

    @Powerofmind
    What exactly are those trinkets they're offering? And how long it would take to fix the cars and who were the other people whose cars got wrecked?
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    Just various scrap or commodity resources worth an amount of Lien that your appraisal puts at around 10-25.

    The cars are pretty banged up. It might take a week or two even for you to get them back in working order (enough that you can deal with any further issues on the road). The other people whose vehicles were damaged are a prominent merchant's car, and a car belonging to the local Knight. Everybody else uses horses, lucky for them.
     
    Powerofmind said:
    The cars are pretty banged up. It might take a week or two even for you to get them back in working order (enough that you can deal with any further issues on the road). The other people whose vehicles were damaged are a prominent merchant's car, and a car belonging to the local Knight. Everybody else uses horses, lucky for them.
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    About how much would we get from selling the wrecks, or the parts? Would it be enough to acquire new vehicles, even if they're horse drawn carriages?
     
    Icipall said:
    About how much would we get from selling the wrecks, or the parts? Would it be enough to acquire new vehicles, even if they're horse drawn carriages?
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    Selling the wrecks for scrap or parts will net you something like 30-40 Lien. You wouldn't need more vehicles, you can stuff everyone into the remaining car easily enough, but acquiring some literal horsepower will cost around 5 Lien. Figurative horsepower will be closer to 10 or 15.
     
    @Powerofmind Was the local Knight present? Which Knight is this/which fief is this?

    [] Politely refuse, you have a timetable to keep.

    The whole point was to take a retinue and Go Fast and not get too bogged down.

    [] Stay here and repair the damaged cars.
    -[] Demand free use of the local machine shop to do so.
    -[] Demand additional recompense for damages.
    --[] Cost of supplies for repair, compensation for the extra days stuck at the inn and daily supplies
    [] Offer to repair the other damaged cars for payment
    -[] Minor compensation from the merchant+request for trade consideration
    -[] Minor compensation from the Knight+request for diplomatic consideration

    Proposing trying to lever this as an in, even at the cost of extra time, as this may be worth it.
     
    Spectrum said:
    @Powerofmind Was the local Knight present? Which Knight is this/which fief is this?

    [] Politely refuse, you have a timetable to keep.

    The whole point was to take a retinue and Go Fast and not get too bogged down.

    [] Stay here and repair the damaged cars.
    -[] Demand free use of the local machine shop to do so.
    -[] Demand additional recompense for damages.
    --[] Cost of supplies for repair, compensation for the extra days stuck at the inn and daily supplies
    [] Offer to repair the other damaged cars for payment
    -[] Minor compensation from the merchant+request for trade consideration
    -[] Minor compensation from the Knight+request for diplomatic consideration

    Proposing trying to lever this as an in, even at the cost of extra time, as this may be worth it.
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    Nobody you know particularly, a Knight Alus of Kitos. He does happen to be in and is also upset by the situation. You get the feeling he'd probably be receptive to repairs.
     
    Powerofmind said:
    Nobody you know particularly, a Knight Alus of Kitos. He does happen to be in and is also upset by the situation. You get the feeling he'd probably be receptive to repairs.
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    What is the appropriate etiquette in this sort of situation? I mean, it's something that I want to consider doing to build up good-will/a favor, but we do outrank him socially quite a bit.
     
    Spectrum said:
    What is the appropriate etiquette in this sort of situation? I mean, it's something that I want to consider doing to build up good-will/a favor, but we do outrank him socially quite a bit.
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    Lyra's weird. Most people in her position don't get down and dirty with oil stains and a monkey wrench, but such is life. If you offered to make the repairs and didn't approach him first for something in return, Alus would definitely owe you in the future, though foreign lords with favors owed are a little more restricted for their possibilities. The most powerful thing you could ask of him is plot participation against his liege or king, but other things like calling for his aid in war are a no-go entirely.
     
    Powerofmind said:
    Lyra's weird. Most people in her position don't get down and dirty with oil stains and a monkey wrench, but such is life. If you offered to make the repairs and didn't approach him first for something in return, Alus would definitely owe you in the future, though foreign lords with favors owed are a little more restricted for their possibilities. The most powerful thing you could ask of him is plot participation against his liege or king, but other things like calling for his aid in war are a no-go entirely.
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    Noted, thanks.

    What about the merchant? The best I was hoping was, as noted, some kind of trade consideration. "Hey, maybe consider taking a look at what we do and see if we can cut a deal?" sort of thing.
     
    Spectrum said:
    Noted, thanks.

    What about the merchant? The best I was hoping was, as noted, some kind of trade consideration. "Hey, maybe consider taking a look at what we do and see if we can cut a deal?" sort of thing.
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    The merchant would obviously prefer to pay up front. Exclusivity deals always make merchants shy away at first; they're technically gambles for little people like them.
     
    Let me go with...

    [X] Politely refuse, you have a timetable to keep.

    [X] Stay here and repair the damaged cars.
    -[X] Demand free use of the local machine shop to do so.
    -[X] Demand additional recompense for damages.
    --[X] Cost of supplies for repair, compensation for the extra days stuck at the inn and daily supplies
    [X] Fix the Knight's vehicle on your initiative
    [X] Offer to fix the merchant's vehicle for fair, but reasonable payment
     
    Spectrum said:
    [X] Stay here and repair the damaged cars.
    -[X] Demand free use of the local machine shop to do so.
    -[X] Demand additional recompense for damages.
    --[X] Cost of supplies for repair, compensation for the extra days stuck at the inn and daily supplies
    [X] Fix the Knight's vehicle on your initiative
    [X] Offer to fix the merchant's vehicle for fair, but reasonable payment
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    @Powerofmind
    How long would this take?
     
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