2023-AT-15: Staff and Evilchumlee - Uphold

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imya t'loak

imya t'loak

forums.sufficientvelocity.com

2023-AT-15: Staff and Evilchumlee Upheld

Hello, @Scia I would like to appeal the 25 infraction points I received for my recent post. Thread comment Quoted, The infraction, I can appreciate being protective and that the topic of conversation could have been homophobic. I can also understand who someone, if desired, COULD read...
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Have not read - just starting the discussion thread
 
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What a rare thing, an Appellant that is graceful enough to just take the L mid-tribunal. I admit I have sympathy for EvilChumLee and sometimes I myself fear ending up in a situation where I am so soaked in outdated morals that just typing my idle thoughts results in dog whistles coming out. I know the reponse of "well then I'll just not engage these topics in the future" is not good for personal growth, but some of us just don't have the spoons for it after our chores and day jobs.
 
Clear infraction, clear uphold, literally broke the literal rules in the literal threadbanner. Not sure how the appellant thought they'd get anywhere, but a tribunal's a tribunal, I guess.
 
I'm reminded of a post once made by one of the admins (probably Ford? (???)) that while they want to be welcoming, it's ultimately not against the rules to post like a clueless white boy.

Speaking as a clueless white (if furry) boy, I appreciate the recent moves away from that stance.
 
Fey'lya said:
I'm reminded of a post once made by one of the admins (probably Ford? (???)) that while they want to be welcoming, it's ultimately not against the rules to post like a clueless white boy.

Speaking as a clueless white (if furry) boy, I appreciate the recent moves away from that stance.
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Tne stance that a community is willing to forgive initial first impressions to hopes the clueless poster will improve their personal etiquette and being aware of the social norms of browsing the site?
 
Kadmus said:
Clear infraction, clear uphold, literally broke the literal rules in the literal threadbanner. Not sure how the appellant thought they'd get anywhere, but a tribunal's a tribunal, I guess.
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Yeah pretty slam dunk, bold strategy to try and argue the facts about how there's apparently too many queer relationships in fan fiction when it's an open and shut "Don't do X"/*does X* case.
 
I kinda wish they'd been infracted for violating the thread banner instead of 'just' rule 2 since that's a touch more clear-cut, but whatever. That's on the mod, not the council. And ... yep, seems like a mild rule 2 violation to me. For a first-time offender maybe a reduction to notice would have been on the table, but not for someone who should have known better by now.
 
Queerness is, in contrast to the appellant's assertions, extremely underrepresented in fiction. If queerness ever seems prevalent in modern popular culture, it is because queerness and queer relationships are now becoming accepted after centuries of being scorned and omitted from the cultures of European and North American countries. It's important to establish the facts of this matter and acknowledge the challenges that have been and still are faced by those of us in the queer community.
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I'm going to echo this a thousand times, because if queerness is underrepresented, so is being poly. If I were ever to post a long fic here, the odds that it _wouldn't_ be poly are minimal, because, well, I want people like me to know they aren't alone.

The appellant is _wrong_.

The problem is that, just like me 22 years ago, they don't know they're wrong.

They have, fortunately, apparently managed to realize they're wrong.

Now, the question is: are they putting up a false front of what they believe, to promulgate it further, or do they not actually understand?

This is important. Because if it's the first, they need to be hit as hard as possible if they do this again. If they don't understand, they need to understand.

I know. 22 years ago, I was a good Preacher's Kid. My dad was a conservative Southern Baptist, and no, it wasn't (and still isn't) redundant. I literally didn't understand. If, when I went to college, my friends I made had shunned me on finding out what I believed? I don't know what I'd have become, but I suspect I'd hate it today.

They're at least trying. Give them a chance.
 
To play devil's advocate, the degree of underrepresentation of queer in fanfiction is not necessarily the same as in fiction as a whole. Especially in the Oughties fandom spaces are often characterized as de facto safe spacer for LGBT people to explore themes not found in published fiction (which makes theappellant's claims even more rude. So much for playing devil's advocate ehehe). At very least, if you search on AO3 most major fandoms have the F/F and M/M categories combined handedly outnumber F/M. That's an overly naive way to look at it of course, but "overly naive" is not a bad descriptor of the appellant.

And even then, F/M is almost never so underpopulated that the pairings are hard to find. So they're out of line even then.
 
For whatever it may be worth, I have been in a number of the same threads as EvilChumlee and he also strikes me as more naive and impulsive than malicious.

He strikes me as both very well-intentioned but also very ignorant on many subjects being approached on these forums. I also sympathize with a certain impulsiveness that I've seen which I fear may lead to further difficulty for him.
 
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For whatever it may be worth, I have been in a number of the same threads as EvilChumlee and he also strikes me as more naive and impulsive than malicious.

He strikes me as both very well-intentioned but also very ignorant on many subjects being approached on these forums. I also sympathize with a certain impulsiveness that I've seen which I fear may lead to further difficulty for him.
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I would agree if he didn't also get angrily defensive every time he received the mildest pushback.
 
To be clear I don't want to dunk on him. I guess another reason i'm here is trying to avoid his same fate. I have never so much as had a warning directed at me outside of a joke cornhole thread...but I am cautious of becomeing out of touch enough to step on peoples toes all the time. Something that could happen to anyone surely?

EDIT: I suppose one thing I have going for me is that I am not angered easily.
 
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16 characters said:
To be clear I don't want to dunk on him. I guess another reason i'm here is trying to avoid his same fate. I have never so much as had a warning directed at me outside of a joke cornhole thread...but I am cautious of becomeing out of touch enough to step on peoples toes all the time. Something that could happen to anyone surely?

EDIT: I suppose one thing I have going for me is that I am not angered easily.
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I think someone else has already said this, though it might be in the other thread, but SV has a lot of different groups on it. If you find a community that discusses something you enjoy, or a thread about a quest or video game that you want to participate in, that's generally a good place to start. I've never had much trouble fitting in thankfully, but I also mainly post in threads that I find both interesting and feel like I'm the target audience for ( or at least adjacent to such ).
I have also found success in building off arguments other people have made before (in the same thread). If your post is arguing a point that doesn't have much support in thread, then there's probably a reason that the thread culture doesn't support it.
 
16 characters said:
To be clear I don't want to dunk on him. I guess another reason i'm here is trying to avoid his same fate. I have never so much as had a warning directed at me outside of a joke cornhole thread...but I am cautious of becomeing out of touch enough to step on peoples toes all the time. Something that could happen to anyone surely?

EDIT: I suppose one thing I have going for me is that I am not angered easily.
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To be clear (and this is important)... the average user on SV basically just... doesn't get infracted very often. We have nearly 54k registered users, over 18 million posts. The infraction to user ratio is, honestly, really small. The usual trajectory for an infracted user is:

Get infracted --> Actually read the rules for the first time ever (don't look at me like that YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE) --> "Oh, whups. My bad." --> Learn from it and never get hit again.

Don't let Tribunals skew your viewpoint. They are, by far, the exception, not the norm.
 
Datcord said:
To be clear (and this is important)... the average user on SV basically just... doesn't get infracted very often. We have nearly 54k registered users, over 18 million posts. The infraction to user ratio is, honestly, really small. The usual trajectory for an infracted user is:

Get infracted --> Actually read the rules for the first time ever (don't look at me like that YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE) --> "Oh, whups. My bad." --> Learn from it and never get hit again.

Don't let Tribunals skew your viewpoint. They are, by far, the exception, not the norm.
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Could y'all publish the volume of infractions given and appeals initiated? (I am assuming you have these numbers.)
 
Datcord said:
To be clear (and this is important)... the average user on SV basically just... doesn't get infracted very often. We have nearly 54k registered users, over 18 million posts. The infraction to user ratio is, honestly, really small. The usual trajectory for an infracted user is:

Get infracted --> Actually read the rules for the first time ever (don't look at me like that YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE) --> "Oh, whups. My bad." --> Learn from it and never get hit again.

Don't let Tribunals skew your viewpoint. They are, by far, the exception, not the norm.
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I'm still not convinced this is a useful way to look at the metrics considering forums invariably have a large population of accounts that have literally never posted and then some set of users that have posted let's say 10 times or whatever arbitrarily small number we want to use. The vast, vast majority of all content on a forum comes from a (relative to the whole) small number of accounts. The top 25 posters alone account for 6.5% of all posts in SV's history.

I don't disagree with the thesis that most 'typical' users don't get infracted that often and (similarly to the above actually) the majority of infractions belong to a smaller set of active users but I do think talking about 54k registered accounts misrepresents the orders of magnitude in play.
 
Datcord said:
To be clear (and this is important)... the average user on SV basically just... doesn't get infracted very often. We have nearly 54k registered users, over 18 million posts. The infraction to user ratio is, honestly, really small. The usual trajectory for an infracted user is:

Get infracted --> Actually read the rules for the first time ever (don't look at me like that YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE) --> "Oh, whups. My bad." --> Learn from it and never get hit again.

Don't let Tribunals skew your viewpoint. They are, by far, the exception, not the norm.
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I have four infractions/staff notices, they can be summarized as "I'm horny and don't believe imagined people have an age", "I'm way too horny and can't tell that pics I'm sharing aren't actually safe" and "I'm cranky this evening and want to share"
 
NHO said:
I have four infractions/staff notices, they can be summarized as "I'm horny and don't believe imagined people have an age", "I'm way too horny and can't tell that pics I'm sharing aren't actually safe" and "I'm cranky this evening and want to share"
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Luckily I have learned to masturbate, in silence when horny instead of telling eveyone around me how horny I am.
 
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