Remove ads

Bleach: Derailed

Reader mode
[x] Keep him in shikai
[X] Maybe Gin can help with getting bankai
 
Last edited:
WELL THEN!!!!

okay Zangestsu 9 weeks to banki Really? mother fucker you don't screw around do you.

[x] keep in shikai


Enjoy it while you can in less then 9 weeks Ichigo will beat you and get your banki.

[X] Accept Komura's invitation to meet.

well he seems solid and his Banki gives the finger to established rules.
 
Bob's Beard said:
Yeah, he just admitted we were legit right that he's cumbersome perma-shikai'd - why on earth would we cede on keeping that sweet, sweet ability to not get caught on doorframes/ankle-clip people?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well first of all he is cumbersome unreleased. That is what Ichigo was trying to shrink I believe, his unreleased form. And I don't really understand what we are ceding here? We keep him unreleased and he goes back to that cumbersome form and we keep butting heads against him, with no gain. In order to achieve Bankai you should ideally have a non-antagonistic relationship with your Sword Spirit and have mastered Shikai. We can't do that if we keep him in unreleased form. The only way that Zangetsu is changing size is if we have his cooperation, and the only way to get his cooperation is to get Bankai, and the best way to get Bankai is to have mastered Shikai and be on good terms with our Zanpakuto.

Diomedon said:
Well, no point in backing down now on the Shikai thing. Bed has been made, best lie in it. It also gives more motivation to Ichi to achieve bankai.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm confused. The bed has not been made. Zangetsu just basically said, if you get Bankai I'll be whatever size you want. It has basically been stated that in order to get any progress on changing our Zanpakuto's size we need Zangetsu to not fight us on it. And he won't do that if we get Bankai. If we don't have our Shikai mastered then we are not likely to achieve Bankai, hence why I think keeping it in Shikai is the way to go.

Skywalker_T-65 said:
Keeping Zangetsu unreleased is showing that we're not going to bend because he throws a tantrum and that we're the one in charge. That Ichigo isn't going to let Zangetsu force him into anything.

Putting him in Shikai would be bending and acknowledging defeat in a way. But it would also be showing that we're willing to compromise and listen until we can get Bankai and make him pay up on that promise to be whatever the hell we want him to be.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The way I see it is that we haven't gotten anywhere by trying to force Zangetsu to do something he doesn't want to do. The reason that we haven't seen any real progress in that area is that Zangetsu has been fighting us every step of the way. We need Zangetsu's help and cooperation to change the size of our Zanpakuto, which is obvious in hindsight now I guess. It is time for a new approach. And having him released also helps us achieve Bankai because the faster we master Shikai the better the chances we have of getting Bankai.
 
Last edited:
Does leaving Zangetsu in shikai have any downsides? Does Ichigo's reiatsu 'signature' change? Does it drain his spirit energy? Will people comment on the change? lol
 
[X] Keep him unreleased
[X] Visit Kukaku and see what's going on there

Visiting Kukaku before Komamura is important, because what she has for us/to say to us might change how we want to interact with Komamura.
 
chocolote12 said:
We got Konso'd. Being Konso'd is, like, the definition of a thing which takes away hollow powers. Zangetsu isn't a hollow anymore, just a technically-a-plus creepy guy. He's still very powerful, because he was only purified, not removed, but he can't pull the body-stealing thing any more.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To be fair, it's debatable in canon whether or not Zangetsu even wanted Ichigo's Body. After all, Zangetsu is, essentially, the personification of Ichigo's Instincts. His Instinct to eat. His instinct to find Shelter. His instinct to procreate. All the typical stuff, but most importantly:

His Instinct to Fight. His Instinct for Battle.

His instinct to Survive.

The biggest theme on Ichigo's relationship with Zangetsu -Both Hollow and Quincy- was Instinct. Everything they ever did was to protect him. When Ichigo was in danger, Old Man Zangetsu let up on holding back his powers, letting him get Shikai, and then Bankai. Whenever Ichigo was in danger of truly Dying, like in his fight with Byakuya or Ulquiorra, White Zangetsu took over. Each and every time Zangetsu acted, it was to keep Ichigo alive.

Half the reason Zangetsu is pissed at us is because we died. And we didn't die because of something that was out of our control, we died because Ichigo ignored his Instinct to Survive and jumped in front of a moving Truck. To save his sisters, yes, but it means Zangetsu -both of them- failed in the one thing they wanted to do.

And now, we're a Shinigami, and we're still fighting Zangetsu! We are fighting our Instinct to Survive! Zangetsu failed once, seeing Ichigo continue to fight him, to continue fighting his instinct to Survive? That must frustrate him to no goddamn end.

People keep viewing Zangetsu as something that needs to be controlled or beaten down. They keep viewing him as a petulant child that needs to get over not having his way. But that isn't what Zangetsu is about, at all!

All Zangetsu wants is for Ichigo to understand that his life is important! That his survival matters too!

Tensa Zangetsu says it outright in canon. The only thing they ever wanted to protect, was Ichigo. And if we want to be the best we can be, we need to make qualms with that. We need to understand it, and come to terms with it.

EDIT: Haaaah, great. Sorry, this turned into a great big rant, but I've kind of been frustrated with people in thread just not understanding Zangetsu or how to deal with him at all.
 
Last edited:
...Fuck it, fine.

[X] Keep him in shikai.
[X] Accept Komura's invitation to meet.
 
[X] Visit Kukaku and see what's going on there
[X] Keep him unreleased

There's a hard time limit on Kukaku; let's get it out of the way rather than keep putting it off.
Komamura can wait till after that; it'll be near the limit on his invite anyway.
After that, we should bother Gin.

And I want to keep him unreleased, not to show him who is in charge or anything like that, but because good lord; using Shikai all the time will cause a huge ruckus in Soul Society.
There's a reason that noone else ever just sort of left it on, and it isn't lack of power. We are still not the biggest fish in the pond, guys, and leaving Zangetsu to his whims will send a lot of signals we don't need sent.
 
Last edited:
Probellum said:
And now, we're a Shinigami, and we're still fighting Zangetsu! We are fighting our Instinct to Survive! Zangetsu failed once, seeing Ichigo continue to fight him, to continue fighting his instinct to Survive? That must frustrate him to no goddamn end.

People keep viewing Zangetsu as something that needs to be controlled or beaten down. They keep viewing him as a petulant child that needs to get over not having his way. But that isn't what Zangetsu is about, at all!

All Zangetsu wants is for Ichigo to understand that his life is important! That his survival matters too!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Agreed. Zangetsu is a part of Ichigo. Fighting yourself never ends well. In order to improve and progress we need Zangetsu's help and support. Forging a path alone won't get us very far.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top