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Winter is Coming: House Stark Quest

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I don't like the kneel option because it will be taken as a sign of our weakness by the Florents, which would lead to problems down the line for us.

We are already seeing signs of Shireen being controlled by the Florents. We shouldn't kneel.
 
godofsmallthings said:
I don't like the kneel option because it will be taken as a sign of our weakness by the Florents, which would lead to problems down the line for us.

We are already seeing signs of Shireen being controlled by the Florents. We shouldn't kneel.
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What? How is she controlled by the Florents? The only Florent there is her mother. Of course her mother would be there. But nothing in the update gave the impression that she was controlling Shireen.

The impression of Shireen that we got from the update isn't someone that's being manipulated, but a girl who is wiser than her years and has a strong will and conviction. We should respect that and her rightful claim and kneel.
 
kneeling to her also sends the message of us being subservient to her rather than her equal as we should be. kneeling could also cause us a great deal of trouble in the future as during the dance of the dragons the precedent was set that for the crown that females can't inherit the throne
 
spudman said:
What? How is she controlled by the Florents? The only Florent there is her mother. Of course her mother would be there. But nothing in the update gave the impression that she was controlling Shireen.

The impression of Shireen that we got from the update isn't someone that's being manipulated, but a girl who is wiser than her years and has a strong will and conviction. We should respect that and her rightful claim and kneel.
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You don't think her own mother will influence her ? Selyse Baratheon is as crazy as Lysa Arryn. Give her even a bit of power and she will do untold amounts of damage to the Seven Kingdoms.

We need to be smart here. We need Shireen to marry us but we shouldn't bow and scrape too much. It'd destroy our own authority among the lords.

Don't forget that the Dance of Dragons proved that the lords of Westeros won't respect a queen for long.

We don't want to end up in a situation where the lords don't respect the King or the Queen.
We need to continue to project a strong image.

Ninja'd a bit.
 
[X] Bow your head.

I would've gone with the Nope option if the GM didn't say this tells her we'll be in charge but be willing to play ball when needed. She has nothing without us and she knows it
 
godofsmallthings said:
We need to be smart here. We need Shireen to marry us but we shouldn't bow and scrape too much. It'd destroy our own authority among the lords.

Don't forget that the Dance of Dragons proved that the lords of Westeros won't respect a queen for long.

We don't want to end up in a situation where the lords don't respect the King or the Queen.
We need to continue to project a strong image.
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I think that people wouldn't tolerate a queen at all, especially not the daughter of Stannis of all people. Rhaenyra dirtied the image of a strong-minded woman on the throne for all time. Her own lords might support her, but the rest of westeros will not. Maybe she would've been accepted grudgingly if she was a meek girl easy to influence and not Stannis' daughter, but since she is not, she needs a popular husband with enough swords to not lose her claim to the Targaryen duo or us.
 
spudman said:
For the write-in that's gotten votes so far. Is Greatjon Umber even with us? I thought he went back North with Ned already.
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It's not so much Greatjon Umber that matters. What matters is that we have three separate forces, who would be unwilling to subordinate themselves to one another, because they're from different realms and there's no obvious superior (Lord Paramount). That's a recipe for disaster in any battle. What they need is an overall commander until they reach the North and Eddard can take command, and that overall commander needs to be assertive, experienced, and know the North. Greatjon Umber is a natural choice. Since I've seen no indication of him returning to the North with Ned, I assume he's still with us.
spudman said:
The Dornish 'army' was soundly defeated by Tarly but that was a force of second sons and bastards.
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Yeah, I'd rather it stay where it is. The Dornish are best at defending their home, and the Iron Fleet might decide to raid there. It might be incredibly stupid, but that's kind of the Iron Islands shtick. Not to mention the far more likely option of Aegon deciding to land there. In any case, if Arianne and Tyene's plot doesn't go off without a hitch, there might be civil war there; better to leave them alone.
spudman said:
Tarly in charge. Might as well have our best commander help crush the Wildlings.
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I would rather keep Tarly with us, in case we need to split our forces to deal with an attack on two fronts - the Ironborn in the west and the Golden Company in the east. In that case, we know we have someone we can trust to take care of matters. The army heading north will have Ned as a commander; the man who won Robert's Rebellion for him. We need no better commander than him, especially as it's his land, and he knows it best.
spudman said:
The impression of Shireen that we got from the update isn't someone that's being manipulated, but a girl who is wiser than her years and has a strong will and conviction. We should respect that and her rightful claim and kneel.
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She's 9. No matter how intelligent and wise she seems, she's still a kid. And anyone can be manipulated later, even if they aren't now. If we kneel, we're no better than any other subject she has. We're not even her Hand or anything, because we have no authority beyond what she would give us, and even were she give it to us, she could just as easily take it away. We negotiated as equals with Stannis, because we were his equals. We have our own authority and power, because it was us that defeated the Lannisters and lead the North, the Riverlands and the Vale. I'm absolutely willing to share our authority and strength with her, but only if she does the same - as equals, not as queen and lord.
 
spudman said:
What? How is she controlled by the Florents? The only Florent there is her mother. Of course her mother would be there. But nothing in the update gave the impression that she was controlling Shireen.

The impression of Shireen that we got from the update isn't someone that's being manipulated, but a girl who is wiser than her years and has a strong will and conviction. We should respect that and her rightful claim and kneel.
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Yeah...no. She's a fig leaf, an excuse. Nothing more. But we don' need to remind her of that, so:

[X] Bow your head.
 
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[X] Kneel

Remember: we are not the king yet. For now, we are her subject, and will be until the ceremony is concluded. Maintaining the protocol is investing in our legitimacy as the rightful ruler of Westeros, as opposrd to an usurper who gained the throne through force of arms.
 
Goddammit...I haven't gone over every single page in this thread, but I've gone over a good amount of them from around the time Ned went North and on.

And I still couldn't find the actual numbers for how many went back with him.

And I couldn't find anything to get a better idea of the other levies that the North would be able to muster on its own (men that didn't go South with Robb to begin with).



@Meneldur

Your write-in mentions watching the west coasts for the Ironborn, but just because they were last seen past Seagard doesn't mean they're still on the west coast. They could have gone further out and gone around. They could be anywhere by now, and if the come back to Westeros it could be at any coast.


As for the Reach and Stormlands forces...we don't know how hard they were hit or their exact numbers. For the Westerlands you're kind of assuming we can force them to contribute troops to the North. That might be a bit of a stretch. They withdrew from the war but there are aren't really friendly feelings there. Asking them to guard their own coast shouldn't be too hard, though.


As for keeping our own force of Valemen/Northmen/Riverlanders...don't they need to pull in the harvest too? Especially the Riverlands which have been devastated and the North which always gets the worst of winter.

All that said, while @Charcolt said we have 80k in total, she wasn't clear about the numbers from each Realm Robb currently has command of.
 
Ned took back with him the surviving Northmen, minus Robb's personal cavalry and retinue (the same bodyguards and friends he kept with him in canon). The bulk of Robb's forces are men of the Riverlands and Vale - specifically the relatively unbloodied Vale. The Stormlands, Reach, and Westerlands have suffered some overwhelming blows to their armies (and their pride). Attempting to raise more sizable hosts from them is possible but requires time unless you want to risk a famine in the middle of winter (which isn't caused by the Others here but is still looking to be a harsh one).

So ~3/8 of your men are Valemen, ~3/8 are Riverlanders and Stannis loyalists (Stormlands and Narrow Sea), and ~2/8 are the men you can keep from the defeated kingdoms without being viewed as unreasonable harsh for this season. You do have the option to send someone directly to the Iron Isles to see what's going on there - the departing fleet is not the only place Greyjoys can be found after all.
 
Charcolt said:
Ned took back with him the surviving Northmen, minus Robb's personal cavalry and retinue (the same bodyguards and friends he kept with him in canon). The bulk of Robb's forces are men of the Riverlands and Vale - specifically the relatively unbloodied Vale. The Stormlands, Reach, and Westerlands have suffered some overwhelming blows to their armies (and their pride). Attempting to raise more sizable hosts from them is possible but requires time unless you want to risk a famine in the middle of winter (which isn't caused by the Others here but is still looking to be a harsh one).

So ~3/8 of your men are Valemen, ~3/8 are Riverlanders and Stannis loyalists (Stormlands and Narrow Sea), and ~2/8 are the men you can keep from the defeated kingdoms without being viewed as unreasonable harsh for this season. You do have the option to send someone directly to the Iron Isles to see what's going on there - the departing fleet is not the only place Greyjoys can be found after all.
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And those fractions are from the 80,000, I take it...

So 30,000 Valemen, About 15,000 Riverlanders and Stannis loyalists each. And 20,000 between the Westerlands, the Reach and Dorne, which is about 6,666 each.

So the 10,000 Westerlanders part isn't going to work. We could have them check out the Iron Islands, though.

I think having the defeated kingdoms participate in at least some capacity is a good chance for them to regain some pride. But have them do it acting as a part of the greater whole of the Seven Kingdoms. Defend the Realm and boost Royal Authority.

[] Plan: From Seven Kingdoms, One.
-[] The Seven Kingdoms will remain a united Realm. The previous victors can forgive, and those that fought against their rightful King, Stannis, before, can regain their honor and pride by fighting with their fellow Westerosi against those that would threaten them all.
-[] The relief force for the North and the Wall will consist of approximately:
5,000 men of the Riverlands under a lord recommended by Brynden Tully for his loyalty and military acumen.
10,00 Valemen the command of Bronze Yohn Royce for his loyalty and military acumen.
5,000 men of the Stormlands under a lord recommended by Davos Seaworth for his loyalty and military acumen.
2,000 men of the Reach under a lord recommended by Randyll Tarly for his loyalty and military acumen.
2,000 Dornishmen recommended by...Edric Dayne, I guess, for his loyalty and military acumen.
2,000 Westerlanders under a lord recommended by Tyrion Lannister, for his loyalty and military acumen.
Bronze Yohn Royce is to command the entire force. Have their lords order them to follow the Royce's commands until they reach North, and upon joining with your father or the Watch (whoever they contact first), follow Lord Stark's and/or work with the Northern forces and Lord Commander. There are reports of a huge wildling army coming to cross the Wall; their mission is to stop them. All the while, advise Royce to be wary of the Golden Company landing on the east coast and while the Iron Fleet has not reappeared, they could show up again any place or time.
-[] Send word to Tyrion Lannister. It's in the interest of everyone to investigate the Iron Islands and figure out just what the Ironborn are up to, and act accordingly from there. Lords Velaryon and Mallister will be sent to offer their direct assistance (and to make sure the Lannisters are playing ball).
The forces sent will include approximately:
1,000 Dornishmen.
2,000 Stormlanders
2,000 Riverlanders
1,000 Reachmen
1,000 Westerlanders
5,000 Valemen
The forces from each Realm will be commanded by a lord recommended by those you previously consulted. This will be under overall command of Tyrion Lannister. However, depending on how things go this can be diplomacy as much as it is a show of force. Keep that in mind if trying to talk to the Ironborn...though also keep in mind it would be Ironborn they'd they'd be talking to...
-[] The Hunt for Aegon:
Your remaining force will be held in reserve to deal with Aegon, or any surprise that comes to Westeros's shores in the meantime as he is being tracked down. This force is comprised of approximately:
25,000 Valemen
8,000 Riverlanders
8,000 Stormlanders
3,500 Dornishmen
3,500 Westerlanders
3,500 Reachmen
The forces from each Realm will be commanded by a lord recommended by those you previously consulted. Lord Tarly will be in command of the armies and Davos Seaworth in charge of the naval forces. Of course, you, Robert Stark II, will be in overall command. You cannot move your forces to chase after Aegon (or the Iron Fleet if necessary) until you know where they are. Send out 'trade envoys' to gather information on where Aegon is, or any word on the Iron Fleet for that matter. Consult the Manderlys, Lord Velaryon, Tyrion Lannister, for any contacts they have, trade related or otherwise. Desmera Redwyne would do well to prove her loyalty in a similar capacity. Tyene Sand said she would serve you however she could to get revenge against Aegon. Seek her and Arianne Martell's assistance in finding information on where Aegon is, and perhaps getting someone to poison him with any luck.



Maybe I'm being overly optimistic about mixing the forces. But I'm thinking Bronze Yohn Royce has enough of a martial repuation to command the respect of not only Robb's more loyal base, but any other troops sent. The same goes for Tarly. As for the Ironborn expedition...everybody can get behind kicking Ironborn ass.

But the mix is something I'm willing to rework. Right now it's 26,000 for the North/Wall, 12,000 for the Iron Islands, and 41,500 held in reserve.


Question though, should we send the Northern relief force by land or sea. By sea would be faster, and we could get them directly to Eastwatch by the Sea...but if the Wall collapses that could be bad.

If we go by sea, I guess have the Manderly fleet get them there?


Oh, the Vale, Riverlands, and Stormlanders...are those numbers for them also based on what they can afford to provide without hurting too much for the Winter, @Charcolt? Do the numbers for the plan work as a whole?


As for Tyene, she is eager to help kill Aegon. And the Martells and Sand Snakes probably have contacts in Essos.


If we want to dedicate assets to defending the coasts, I'm not sure how many troops or naval assets that might take. We'd have to reduce the numbers for the other forces if we want sizeable defense forces just held in place. I kind of doubt it's necessary, though. The 'Aegon' force being held in reserve can be deployed elsewhere in case the Iron Fleet does suddenly show up.
 
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spudman said:
2,000 Dornishmen recommended by...Edric Dayne, I guess
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The kid is 12 years old and has been serving as Beric Dondarrion's page/squire in the Stormlands since age 7. He knows about as much about Dorne as we do. Just ask Arianne or Tyene, if you're already trusting them for everything else. In addition, I don't see how we have any Dornish - their army never left Dorne, how do we have them with us?
spudman said:
By sea would be faster, and we could get them directly to Eastwatch by the Sea...but if the Wall collapses that could be bad.
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Not by sea. By sea is a huge mistake, because it poses the risk of an attack by the Iron Fleet or the Golden Company, and our army can't fight on boats, which means we might lose a large army with nothing to show for it. To say nothing of the risks of storms and bad navigation. I see no reason why we should fear the collapse of the Wall; for that matter, even if it does somehow collapse (because magic or nat 100 or some shit), it's not really a problem. If the Wildlings spread out and start raiding all along, Ned can defeat them piecemeal, since his force is superior in every way except numerically, and that would make it numerically superior; if they stay together, they're moving just as slow as we are (slower, because they have more people as well as women, children and the elderly), and we can easily predict their movements.
 
Meneldur said:
The kid is 12 years old and has been serving as Beric Dondarrion's page/squire in the Stormlands since age 7. He knows about as much about Dorne as we do. Just ask Arianne or Tyene, if you're already trusting them for everything else. In addition, I don't see how we have any Dornish - their army never left Dorne, how do we have them with us?

Not by sea. By sea is a huge mistake, because it poses the risk of an attack by the Iron Fleet or the Golden Company, and our army can't fight on boats, which means we might lose a large army with nothing to show for it. To say nothing of the risks of storms and bad navigation. I see no reason why we should fear the collapse of the Wall; for that matter, even if it does somehow collapse (because magic or nat 100 or some shit), it's not really a problem. If the Wildlings spread out and start raiding all along, Ned can defeat them piecemeal, since his force is superior in every way except numerically, and that would make it numerically superior; if they stay together, they're moving just as slow as we are (slower, because they have more people as well as women, children and the elderly), and we can easily predict their movements.
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@Charcolt included mention of Dorne as being able to contribute less than others due to taking heavy losses. Maybe that's in part because I asked, but that strongly implies we can assemble them. Some of the Dornish would be heading west, and some would be heading to the forces going North or being held in reserve. Those are either near Dragonstone or Storm's End (things are kind of unclear on that). A ways away...but not too bad compared to the full trip North that the entire relief force will be making. They can catch up while things are being organized.

Fixed to ask Arianne instead. She knows her nobles.

Though that does bring up a question, Charcolt. Has Arianne assumed control of Dorne yet?

I'll change the vote depending on the answer. Perhaps just a note that the Dornish are contingent on who's in charge right now.

As for going by land. Sure.


[X] Plan: From Seven Kingdoms, One.
-[] The Seven Kingdoms will remain a united Realm. The previous victors can forgive, and those that once fought against their rightful King, Stannis, can regain their honor and pride by fighting for King Robert II and Queen Shireen, and defend their homeland alongside their fellow Westerosi against those that would threaten them all.
-[] Send those ravens to Winterfell and the Wall. What exactly is going on there? What do they need? Let them know you're preparing a relief force as the ravens fly.
-[] The relief force for the North and the Wall will consist of approximately:
5,000 men of the Riverlands under a lord recommended by Brynden and Edmure Tully for their loyalty and military acumen.
10,00 Valemen under a lord recommended by Bronze Yohn Royce for their loyalty and military acumen.
5,000 men of the Stormlands under a lord recommended by Davos Seaworth for their loyalty and military acumen.
2,000 men of the Reach under a lord recommended by Randyll Tarly for their loyalty and military acumen.
2,000 Dornishmen recommended by Arianne Martell for their loyalty and military acumen.
2,000 Westerlanders under a lord recommended by Tyrion Lannister, for their loyalty and military acumen.
Bronze Yohn Royce is to command the entire force. Upon joining with your father or the Watch (whoever they contact first), they will follow Lord Stark's orders and/or work with the Northern forces and Lord Commander. Try to remain in contact with Winterfell and the Watch as they travel. There are reports of a huge wildling army coming to cross the Wall; their mission is to stop them. All the while, advise Royce to be mindful of the (albeit unlikely) possibility of the Golden Company landing on the east coast. And while the Iron Fleet has not reappeared, they could show up again any place or time.
-[] Send word to Tyrion Lannister. It's in the interest of everyone to investigate the Iron Islands and figure out just what the Ironborn are up to, and act accordingly from there. Lords Velaryon and Mallister will be sent to offer their direct assistance (for their naval expertise, the former knowing the Ironborn as well, and to make sure the Lannisters are playing ball).
The forces sent will include approximately:
1,000 Dornishmen.
2,000 Stormlanders
2,000 Riverlanders
1,000 Reachmen
1,000 Westerlanders
5,000 Valemen
The forces from each Realm will be commanded by a lord recommended by those you previously consulted. This will be under overall command of Tyrion Lannister. However, depending on how things go this can be a diplomatic mission as much as it is a show of strength (/force if needed). Keep that in mind if trying to talk to the Ironborn...though also keep in mind it would be Ironborn that they'd be talking to...
-[] The Hunt for Aegon:
Your remaining force will be held in reserve to deal with Aegon, or any surprise that comes to Westeros's shores in the meantime as he is being tracked down. This force is comprised of approximately:
25,000 Valemen
8,000 Riverlanders
8,000 Stormlanders
3,500 Dornishmen
3,500 Westerlanders
3,500 Reachmen
The forces from each Realm will be commanded by a lord recommended by those you previously consulted. Lord Tarly will be in command of the armies and Davos Seaworth in charge of the naval forces. Of course, you, Robert Stark II, will be in overall command. You cannot move your forces to chase after Aegon (or the Iron Fleet if necessary) until you know where they are. Send out 'trade envoys' to gather information on where Aegon is, or any word on the Iron Fleet for that matter. Consult the Manderlys, Lord Velaryon, Tyrion Lannister, for any contacts they have, trade related or otherwise. Desmera Redwyne would do well to prove her loyalty in a similar capacity. Tyene Sand said she would serve you however she could to get revenge against Aegon. Seek her and Arianne Martell's assistance in finding information on where Aegon is, and perhaps getting someone to poison him with any luck.


For those of you concerned about the mix of forces. I'll reiterate that Yohn Royce and Randyll Tarly can command the respect of knights from just about anywhere.

As for Tyrion...he is LP of the Westerlands and the Iron Islands are in his backyard. Plus, I think everyone there will be just fine putting the Ironborn in their place. I considered Kevan briefly, but he'll be at Tyrion's side anyway, and I didn't see how undermining Tyrion as the LP would help here.


Anyway, I'll also add that no single realm has an overwhelming advantage over all the others. Even the Valemen. Though it helps that the Valemen are trustworthy and it would be stupid for the Realms with fewer forces (Westerlands, Dorne, and Reachmen that might have second thoughts) to try anything as the others are more likely to deal with them swiftly and mercilessly.

The politically canny lords will notice this and see this part of things, and see it as shrewd. Though there is the stated reason of giving the defeated forces a chance to rejoin the fold and regain their pride and honor. It helps that that part is true as well.
 
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