In the Beginning, There Was Man: Cosmic Dust

Stickied Info

Betas
My betas are: @Snowfire, @Icipall, @Ruirk, and @Chief18753. They will occasionally be announcing when moratoriums and voting times are over. You can also consider their words to be Word of QM if they say "Torr said..."

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@torrmercury

Rank 7: -1 -> +0
Rank 6: -0.5 -> +0
Rank 5: +0
Rank 4: +.5
Rank 3: +1 & Minor Action -> +.5
Rank 2: +1 & Major Action -> +1 & Minor Action
Rank 1: +1 & Major Action & Minor Action -> +1 & Major Action


So, for dreamers, we gain +1 stat (rank 7; rank 6 is balanced by the .5 loss from rank 3) and lose 2 minor actions and downgrade a major action into a minor action. Is this balanced?
 
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Is it necessary for such a long vote creator seems to be the favorite here. By almost double the next vote.
No, but that's when I'll be able to update, so might as well leave it open. When we get into turns, it'll be shorter vote times.

@torrmercury

Rank 7: -1 -> +0
Rank 6: -0.5 -> +0
Rank 5: +0
Rank 4: +.5
Rank 3: +1 & Minor Action -> +.5
Rank 2: +1 & Major Action -> +1 & Minor Action
Rank 1: +1 & Major Action & Minor Action -> +1 & Major Action


So, for dreamers, we gain +1 stat (rank 7; rank 6 is balanced by the .5 loss from rank 3) and lose 2 minor actions and downgrade a major action into a minor action. Is this balanced?
Considering that none of your stats will be decaying period, yes. Yes it is.
 
Prelim vote tally.

Edit: Dang. Creator is super in the lead. Very unexpected, though not unwelcome...
 
The above is totally the start of the Paragon revolution...
Which would be kinda ironic.
 
God I really want Paragon to win, just to avoid the possibility of a civil war or some shit breaking out. That shit slows us down
 
God I really want Paragon to win, just to avoid the possibility of a civil war or some shit breaking out. That shit slows us down
I mean, that shit is happening to all the other factions too, unless they picked their versions of Paragon... :V

And to be quite frank, only 1 of the 25 factions I've generated so far have picked Paragon.
 
Civil wars make quests more exciting.
A quest that goes as planned might as well be a particularly long word problem.
 
Civil wars make quests more exciting.
A quest that goes as planned might as well be a particularly long word problem.
Not really, its just one less problem, We can focus on the funner aspects than internal affairs, like science, EXTERNAL wars, expansion, discovery and so on instead of trying to maintain a massively complex multisystem empire from falling apart due to the vast distance and cultural differences that'll inevitably appear
 
Not really, its just one less problem, We can focus on the funner aspects than internal affairs, like science, EXTERNAL wars, expansion, discovery and so on instead of trying to maintain a massively complex multisystem empire from falling apart due to the vast distance and cultural differences that'll inevitably appear
honestly? Those usually end up being boring. Science = we always pursue the shiny, and then run out of shinies to pursue. External wars = we always just dedicate a bunch of actions and crush them because golly gee we're OP (and also external wars tend to lack, like, seriously cultural/political repercussions unlike civil wars). Expansion = yet another planet. Discovery = yet another planet.

At least trying to prevent cultural and political differentiation lets us track the trajectory of the causes and focus on our people as people.
 
honestly? Those usually end up being boring. Science = we always pursue the shiny, and then run out of shinies to pursue. External wars = we always just dedicate a bunch of actions and crush them because golly gee we're OP (and also external wars tend to lack, like, seriously cultural/political repercussions unlike civil wars). Expansion = yet another planet. Discovery = yet another planet.

At least trying to prevent cultural and political differentiation lets us track the trajectory of the causes and focus on our people as people.
...
You do realize with those standards we might as well abandon the quest, cause there is literally nothing outside expectation in internal conflicts either
Civil War, same as a regular war, Dedicate actions, win gg.
 
...
You do realize with those standards we might as well abandon the quest, cause there is literally nothing outside expectation in internal conflicts either
Civil War, same as a regular war, Dedicate actions, win gg.
except we care about the people we're fighting
they're us
everything of theirs we destroy is something of ours we destroy

the same can rarely be said of external war
 
except we care about the people we're fighting
they're us
everything of theirs we destroy is something of ours we destroy

the same can rarely be said of external war
So we can't care about aliens
There are no political or Cultural problems with invading a sovereign entity, because their different
It won't show us to be Xenophobic, which would also have repercussions (or benefits) on how Humans Approach problems
Your argument here is Highly disingenuous since it ignores literally everything.
 
So we can't care about aliens
There are no political or Cultural problems with invading a sovereign entity, because their different
It won't show us to be Xenophobic, which would also have repercussions (or benefits) on how Humans Approach problems
Your argument here is Highly disingenuous since it ignores literally everything.
A xenophobic/isolationist perspective impacts us less; everything external to us impacts us less, essentially by definition. It's not like aliens are going to go "oh, they hate aliens, let's attack them even if they're just sciencing and otherwise leaving people alone." An internally suppressive tendency, on the other hand, provokes more trouble and a more significant cultural shift.

It is not disingenuous at all. Unlike claiming it's disingenuous, imo.
 
A xenophobic/isolationist perspective impacts us less; everything external to us impacts us less, essentially by definition. It's not like aliens are going to go "oh, they hate aliens, let's attack them even if they're just sciencing and otherwise leaving people alone." An internally suppressive tendency, on the other hand, provokes more trouble and a more significant cultural shift.

It is not disingenuous at all. Unlike claiming it's disingenuous, imo.
Your claiming that everything Except a nation's internal conflict is boring, that's Disingenuous because it ignores things like Context of the war, what we do with the science and its ramifications on society or how Aliens view said tech, in favor of internal conflict that are not really different from an external war in most cases except they use to be part of our nation.
 
Your claiming that everything Except a nation's internal conflict is boring, that's Disingenuous because it ignores things like Context of the war, what we do with the science and its ramifications on society or how Aliens view said tech, in favor of internal conflict that are not really different from an external war in most cases except they use to be part of our nation.
Except that they used to be part of our nation and thus will be easier to portray with sympathy and are likely to have a strong impact on our citizens and thus our nation. Aliens are easier to label as alien, and thus not something worth caring about. Look at how quickly demonization occurs in PoC and how boring the arguments are in comparison to ones about (as an example) what the best choice for the temple would be.

Sure, maybe we'll befriend an alien (or an AI race that we created) and be super attached to their culture and then, for some random reason, decide we want to go to war with them. In that case we might be as impacted as we would if a civil war began.

Sure, maybe we'll do some science thing, like invent the AI and be given a chance to link all of our brains into a hivemind. Something on that level would be relatively impactful to the degree that it overturns previous portrayals of our civ and results in, ideally, a new narrative style. But science like "improve guns," "improve generators," "jump farther warp drive mark 2" is boring.

Aliens caring about our tech is only interesting if we're invested in the aliens' opinion of our tech, which occurs out of fear that they'll attack us or interest in developing them as friends. If they're going to go to war with us, see my opinion on external war. If they want to trade with us, cool. Maybe if we get backstory on why they hate the tech (e.g. that one Angel fic on SB's description of the AI who was told to make its people happy so it did that until it ended up drugging them and birthing them in vats only to raise them as drugged insensates) that would be cool. But otherwise? More boring than civil war and internal politics.

In essence, the paragon choice basically cuts off an entire source narrative developments (internal culture) so that we can focus on the outside which we care about less.Its ultimate goal is a decreased necessity for us to care about our internal culture. Its narrative is boring, compared to Creator, and doesn't allow us to experiment with achieving the same result through our own actions - i.e. it skips all of the strife.

disingenuous = not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.
I was completely sincere in my disregard for the narrative potential of external wars and science, at least relative to civil wars.
Labeling what I'm saying disingenuous, rather than strictly bringing up relevant points that convey a similar message, is offensive and, imo, intended to be offensive rather than prompt a change in behavior. Calling what you said disingenuous was a) a flawed use of the word b) to convey an understanding of why its usage is offensive. I would be much obliged if you do not repeat such usage in the future; I won't.
 
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disingenuous = not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.
I was completely sincere in my disregard for the narrative potential of external wars and science, at least relative to civil wars.
Labeling what I'm saying disingenuous, rather than strictly bringing up relevant points that convey a similar message, is offensive and, imo, intended to be offensive rather than prompt a change in behavior. Calling what you said disingenuous was a) a flawed use of the word b) to convey an understanding of why its usage is offensive. I would be much obliged if you do not repeat such usage in the future; I won't.
The above this quote, is a good reason
Your other argument WAS disingenuous because it was a blanket statement that External wars, science, exploration, and expansion Things that encompass huge amount of things, were boring completely. Ignoring every worth these things could have in an interesting quest, Slightly insulting the QM by just assuming everything he could think up in regards to what is going to be pretty much at least 85% of the quest is not worth while in comparison to a small sliver that None of us are going to let happen without extreme circumstances.
 
The above this quote, is a good reason
Your other argument WAS disingenuous because it was a blanket statement that External wars, science, exploration, and expansion Things that encompass huge amount of things, were boring completely. Ignoring every worth these things could have in an interesting quest, Slightly insulting the QM by just assuming everything he could think up in regards to what is going to be pretty much at least 85% of the quest is not worth while in comparison to a small sliver that None of us are going to let happen without extreme circumstances.
The [??] above this quote?

*shrug* Science other than civ-transforming events is boring. War with the people likely to attack us, i.e. xenophobic invader types, is boring. Having to fight to not let civil war happen? Interesting.
 
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