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Winter is Coming: House Stark Quest

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I'm going to slightly amend the reap what you sew plan to assist the Crown a little more. So here it is:

[X] Plan Bend Over and say "Yes, Your Majesty!"

[] Suggest that in light of his injuries, Jaime Lannister be kept in Stannis's custody until he recovers under the treatment of a maester, after which, he will be given a choice. To serve out the rest of his life as a Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch, where he might one day regain a semblance of honor, or to march forward and be greeted with the headman's axe as justice for his many, many crimes.

[] Randyll Tarly is to be raised up as Lord Paramount of the Mander, Lord of Highgarden, and Warden of the South.

[] Garth Hightower is to be given leave to besiege and sack any Reachlords that do not bow, whose lands shall then be divided up amongst royalist second sons and claimants. House Tyrell is to be stripped of all their lands and titles. The men of House Tyrell shall either take the Black, join the Citadel, swear to the Sept, or they shall soon meet the Stranger themselves. Margaery is to be married to Dickon Tarly to cement Randyll's rule.

[] Lords that remained with Renly: One time offer: kneel and pledge loyalty to King Stannis. They will be expected to bring their levies to the fold, of course. They can expect an increased share of easing the burden of the refugees of King's Landing or forfeit some of their lands. Hostages will also be required.
-[] The alternative is to take the Black or face the axe. Their lands will be divided amongst second sons and hedge knights of loyal houses.

[] Lower level knights will be offered a chance to redeem themselves if they join with the Royalist forces, but they can always take the Black or the axe if they have a problem with that.

[] Houses that defected from or left Renly's army will not have their lands seized, nor will their lords have to take the Black or face the axe so long as they pledge loyalty to Stannis. They are encouraged to prove their renewed loyalty by joining their levies to the royalist forces, of course.

[] The treasonous houses will be required to supply the relief efforts for the refugees of King's Landing. Houses that remained with Renly will be expected to provide a greater share than those that did not.

[] The sell sword Bronn is to be knighted and given the hand of Brienne of Tarth for slaying Loras Tyrell in open combat. (If this is accepted. I just like the idea of Loras doing a bunch of fancy sword twirling and then Bronn just shivs him when he's over extended.) Perhaps even give him a keep in the North to keep an eye on the Greyjoys.

[] Besides any lands that are seized, loyal lords and knights will be rewarded with fair shares of the ransoms from the captured treasonous lords.

[] The lands of the Reach along the Roseroad between the middle and south arms of the Mander river are to be added to the Crownlands.

Reasoning is that the Crownlands and King's Landing needs an additional buffer zone from the Reach. And the Reach is a bit big for its britches and could use some trimming. Why not add to the King's coffers and lessen his reliance on loans?
 
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What is "the Mander"? Because the Sharklands and Cocklands aren't a thing here, it's just the Reach; unless you're trying to make them into a thing. In which case I'd oppose that on the principle that it's just shoving something from a different quest into this one for the funnies, which I don't approve of.
 
Spelling error.

.......

Goddammit. :oops:

I am ashamed. I must now commit sudoku. :p


Anyway, I thought about just giving all the lords that stayed with Renly the choice of the Black or the axe and redistriubting their lands. That was in the previous version of the plan.

But...canon Stannis, hardass that he is, allowed the Stormlords and any Reachlords that were willing to bend the knee and join him after Renly died. A part of that was probably the fact that he NEEDED them, but still.

Thoughts on that? Maybe the lords that stayed with Renly should be stripped of lands and titles. But if unseating lords is on the table for punishment it's something that shouldn't wait. We have them by the short hairs right now.
 
spudman said:
Thoughts on that? Maybe the lords that stayed with Renly should be stripped of lands and titles. But if unseating lords is on the table for punishment it's something that shouldn't wait. We have them by the short hairs right now.
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Seizing the lands and titles of the Lords that were with Renly till the end should be fine since there were very few of them, and their armies were crushed by ours anyway. They aren't going to be much use fighting Oberyn or F!Aegon. At the very least make the Lords take the black while their heirs inherit. Make some kind of incentive for the Dornish to defect from the Martell's army, so that they don't suffer the same fate.

We can make the rest of the Stormlanders and Reachmen, who defected from Renly's army, fight Dorne, while the Riverlanders, Valemen and Northerners fight Aegon's army. Remember, the Reach has the biggest army and Dorne has one of the smallest among the seven kingdoms. They should be able to handle it, especially when led by Randyll Tarly. And now that our victory is seems to be very much likely, maybe we can make some of the Dornish defect like we did with Renly's army.
 
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spudman said:
Spelling error.

.......

Goddammit. :oops:

I am ashamed. I must now commit sudoku. :p


Anyway, I thought about just giving all the lords that stayed with Renly the choice of the Black or the axe and redistriubting their lands. That was in the previous version of the plan.

But...canon Stannis, hardass that he is, allowed the Stormlords and any Reachlords that were willing to bend the knee and join him after Renly died. A part of that was probably the fact that he NEEDED them, but still.

Thoughts on that? Maybe the lords that stayed with Renly should be stripped of lands and titles. But if unseating lords is on the table for punishment it's something that shouldn't wait. We have them by the short hairs right now.
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If they are willing to bend the knee and join him they should still keep their lands (except the Tyrells) but be punished in another way, taxes maybe.

If they do not bend the knee then they are enemies and harsher methods are called for.
 
NúmenoreanNazgûl said:
Seizing the lands and titles of the Lords that were with Renly till the end should be fine since there were very few of them, and their armies were crushed by ours anyway. They aren't going to be much use fighting Oberyn or F!Aegon. At the very least make the Lords take the black while their heirs inherit. Make some kind of incentive for the Dornish to defect from the Martell's army, so that they don't suffer the same fate.

We can make the rest of the Stormlanders and Reachmen, who defected from Renly's army, fight Dorne, while the Riverlanders, Valemen and Northerners fight Aegon's army. Remember, the Reach has the biggest army and Done has one of the smallest among the seven kingdoms. They should be able to handle it, especially when led by Randyll Tarly. And now that our victory is seems to be very much likely, maybe we can make some of the Dornish defect like we did with Renly's army.
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That's part of the problem...we know a bunch defected or simply left but it's unclear how many lords actually stayed with Renly until the bitter end. I feel that would have an impact on how merciful we ought to be.

Hmm...I did already mention that anyone that bends the knee will be expected to join up. I figured organizing into different armies could wait until a strategy vote. But I could tweak that to mention the Reachmen and Stormlanders would be under Tarly's command.

ShyGuy said:
If they are willing to bend the knee and join him they should still keep their lands (except the Tyrells) but be punished in another way, taxes maybe.

If they do not bend the knee then they are enemies and harsher methods are called for.
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Oh, I definitely say that much already. I was thinking of just taking the lands of those that stayed with Renly until the end.

But we don't know who exactly that was...we only know the Tarlys and Hightowers defected and left respectively.

@Charcolt could we get a list of those houses that stayed with Renly until the end. Or a list of those that defected/left before that final clash.
 
I'll be frank - I don't want to fight the Dornish. I want to defeat Aegon before they even reach us, and leave them no choice but to accept us as the rulers (not to mention that as far as we know, Aegon only has 10,000 men, whereas Dorne could easily have sent 20,000, and supposedly its full muster is somewhere between 30,000-45,000). Why, you might ask? Not out of any love for the Dornish (which would quickly get me stoned). Rather, because canonically, they have a 'one-in-a-million' bonus to their rolls. Nobody could kill a dragon? Oh, the Dornish do it. Nobody can kill The Mountain? Oh, Oberyn manages it. Nobody remained free against the Targaryens? Oh, the Dornish survive against them for 170 years and quite a few wars and battles.
If we try fighting against them, I'm afraid it'll go something like this: "Defeating Randyll Tarly, roll 1d100, 100 to succeed: 100". "Defeat Stannis, roll 1d100: 100, perfect success, Stannis is dead on the field". Then Robb would beat them, but when we try to conquer them: "Try to conquer Dorne, roll 1d100: 1, critical failure".
IT'S NOT PARANOIA WHEN IT REALLY HAPPENS!

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Charcolt said:
The Houses which fought to the end are the Tyrells, Peakes, Redwynes, Penroses, and a few minor guys (morale was that bad by then), but you could justifiably impose penalties on a significant portion of the nobility.
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If I may quote Arnaud Amalric: "Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius."
 
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spudman said:
That's part of the problem...we know a bunch defected or simply left but it's unclear how many lords actually stayed with Renly until the bitter end. I feel that would have an impact on how merciful we ought to be.

Hmm...I did already mention that anyone that bends the knee will be expected to join up. I figured organizing into different armies could wait until a strategy vote. But I could tweak that to mention the Reachmen and Stormlanders would be under Tarly's command.



Oh, I definitely say that much already. I was thinking of just taking the lands of those that stayed with Renly until the end.

But we don't know who exactly that was...we only know the Tarlys and Hightowers defected and left respectively.

@Charcolt could we get a list of those houses that stayed with Renly until the end. Or a list of those that defected/left before that final clash.
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It's complicated because the various lords were in the process of defecting or preparing to when Stannis smashed into them. The Houses which fought to the end are the Tyrells, Peakes, Redwynes, Penroses, and a few minor guys (morale was that bad by then), but you could justifiably impose penalties on a significant portion of the nobility. Of course being too harsh would certainly hurt your cause there.
 
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Charcolt said:
It's complicated because the various lords were in the process of defecting or preparing to when Stannis smashed into them. The Houses which fought to the end are the Tyrells, Peakes, Redwynes, Penroses, and a few minor guys (morale was that bad by then), but you could justifiably impose penalties on a significant portion of the nobility. Of course being too harsh would certainly hurt your cause there.
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Hm, so not a lot of houses but some big names there. I think we can unseat the Tyrells since they were the masterminds of this whole thing. Though I'm considering letting the cadet branch hang onto what they have. Thoughts?

Other than that a larger share of aid to refugees and hostages (assuming they kneel and pledge loyalty) sounds fair.

Or maybe just make no distinction and aid, taxes, and hostages all around for the Reachmen and Stormlords that joined Renly.

MagisterAurelius said:
[] The lands of the Reach along the Roseroad between the middle and south arms of the Mander river are to be added to the Crownlands.

Reasoning is that the Crownlands and King's Landing needs an additional buffer zone from the Reach. And the Reach is a bit big for its britches and could use some trimming. Why not add to the King's coffers and lessen his reliance on loans?
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I assume this is not necessarily unseating the current lords of those lands (unless they don't kneel, of course), but merely switching which LP (or directly to the King) they're under?

Wish we had a map that showed the borders for the different houses.

If so, I like that idea and wouldn't have a problem adding it to my plan.


Besides any lands that are now available and a fair share of the ransoms, any suggestions for rewards for loyal houses?

Edit:

Remember guys, the time given to decide this is right now. I mean, I suppose we could delay the punishments and hold onto all our prisoners to keep their houses in line...letting them stew on it. But that just keeps things in a weird limbo.

Or we could deliver a fair punishment now and allow them to rejoin the fold. With my plan as is (or with possible changes mentioned above) I don't think it's too harsh or too lenient.


Oh, I suppose we could have the Redwynes turn a part of their fleet over to the Royal Fleet. It could help with the recent losses due to the storm. Thoughts on that?
 
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We should suggest Harrenhal become the Crown's seat for the meantime. It's central location is ideal. Also, if Shireen becomes Princess of Dragonstone, is Robb expected to go live with her?
 
spudman said:
Hm, so not a lot of houses but some big names there. I think we can unseat the Tyrells since they were the masterminds of this whole thing. Though I'm considering letting the cadet branch hang onto what they have. Thoughts?
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I think that sounds fine, especially given we decided to not completely destroy the main Lannister branch by letting Tyrion take over it. If anyone thinks we're being too unfair to the Tyrells, we can point out that we let the cadet branch (who weren't in charge to make the decisions about betraying us) keep their lands.
 
spudman said:
Hm, so not a lot of houses but some big names there. I think we can unseat the Tyrells since they were the masterminds of this whole thing. Though I'm considering letting the cadet branch hang onto what they have. Thoughts?

Other than that a larger share of aid to refugees and hostages (assuming they kneel and pledge loyalty) sounds fair.

Or maybe just make no distinction and aid, taxes, and hostages all around for the Reachmen and Stormlords that joined Renly.
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I think unseating the Tyrells is fine since they were the masterminds like you said. Let's not place blame all around, only on those most responsible. Higher taxes and hostages for those that stayed to the end if they bend the knee. I just don't want to be too harsh that they figure that continuing to fight is the better option.
 
Enjou said:
I think that sounds fine, especially given we decided to not completely destroy the main Lannister branch by letting Tyrion take over it. If anyone thinks we're being too unfair to the Tyrells, we can point out that we let the cadet branch (who weren't in charge to make the decisions about betraying us) keep their lands.
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Okay. Garth 'the gross' Tyrell is the head of that branch, right? What was the name of their hall?



Hmm...isn't Tarly having both Horn Hill and High Garden a bit too much? Per the update he was made LP and Warden of the South. That should be plenty. Highgarden's lands can be split up.


Or give Davos HighGarden...heh.

Anyway, I tweaked my plan a bit already. Made it less repetitive. And part of the Redwyne's increased contribution (for staying with Renly until the end) will be replacing some of the Royal Navy's losses.

It also adds some land from the Reach to the Crownlands. But I'm not sure if that is viable since I'm uncertain if it splits any lord's lands up...

But even as I'm considering the fate of HighGarden, and whether to let the Tyrell cadet branch hang onto their lands...



My plan needs votes, guys.

@Camiadus , I support your strategies but this isn't the turn to implement them. Let the punishments and rewards be dealt now as the vote actually asked for and bring the kingdoms back into the fold. Don't leave them dreading their fate. The penalties are there but not too harsh so long as they bend the knee.

Propaganda-wise, there is punishment for siding with the greedy Renly and Tyrells, but once paid they can join the greater cause for Justice and protect the people from the Dornish, Ironscum, and invading Dragons.
 
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Arcvalons said:
Harrenhal and he lands around the God's Eye are transferred to the Crownlands, in exchange, Maidenpool and maybe even the Claw are transferred to the Riverlands.

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Maidenpool is a port city, very valuable so it might work. Crackclaw Point is just full of rebellious Targ loyalists. I don't know if they would accept those lands even if you paid them for taking it off your hands.
 
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