Winter is Coming: House Stark Quest
- Thread starter Charcolt
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- Mists of Albion
It does actually, we can capture their gold mines like we did in canon, we can destroy their hosts so they can't threaten the Riverlands if we move south (which we may have to) like in canon and we can gain more hostages as it happened in cannon.
Go to the Wiki for ASOIAF, read about the battle of Oxcross aftermath, that's what we could do, except with three times the numbers
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- Location
- USA
So everyone would be fine with it if on Lysa's or Robin's orders 1000 men from the Vale, while being lead by someone like the Blackfish, marched into the North seeking a traitor that may be anywhere at all? I don't think that would fly well anywhere. I agree on searching for Baelish. But I don't think doing so many proactive actions towards the Vale in quick succession is a good idea.
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- Mists of Albion
No they do stop Lysa from declaring war on us, securing our East flanks entirely, some houses might still rise, but against the respected Ned with the Royces rallying against the attack? Civil war that Lysa will lose.
It secures our borders completely. It does give us that major thing.
I do think we would if this guy was a Northern Lord, who had tried to kill and betray Robin.
Hell we'd probably send troops to help them.
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Made a slight addition to the plan justifying why we're hinting that Lysa is involved in the whole sordid business of murder. She is known to be close to Littlefinger, after all. As we have no definite proof, we're not saying it outright. But she's quite clearly not on our side, after her lack of actions, so that small serving of disorder should be justifiable. It might also prevent the Vale lords from following Lysa if Littlefinger should whisper in her ear to attack us (very likely, after we demanded his head).
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- Location
- Mists of Albion
That's going too far without proof mate. We can't just sling accusations we have no inkling of In Character
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- Tarn-Vedra
[X]Plan Fortify
- Location
- Mists of Albion
You do know he's edited the House Arryn thing so he's trying to hint that Lysa is with Baelish right? Isn't that going a bit far?
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- Somewhere
To be honest, I think we should leave off on Robb getting betrothed/married for now, and see how things play out for now.
Like, say Renly bites it and Margaery is open for marriage. She's a much bigger boon than Ysilla Royce and others right now that we can currently marry, providing us with the Reach's support and essentially surrounding the Westerlands on all sides and including the sea if we mobilized naval forces from the Reach. Though marrying Margaery would likely require more negotiations than say Ysilla..
Asha or whatever her name is here might be an interesting choice if Balon didn't have a massive hate-boner for the Starks. If we look past the shittery of the Ironborn, marrying her would bring us the support of the Ironborn navy.
Or we could always marry Arianne, even though she's an enormous slut, since it'd give us the support of Dorne. Admittedly, Dorne is miles away, has little forces, Doran is a little bitch and a bunch of Dorne is full of shits... plus Arianne is a complete slut and would totally try and cuck us.
Ysilla doesn't really offer us anything. Significant portions of the Vale is only neutral because Lysa is in charge, and they already really like Ned because of his honour and also because of the whole "alliance" thing. We don't really need to try and increase our ties with them in this generation.. or at least, we don't need to waste Robb's marriage on them. Who Robb marries should be somebody that actually brings us something incredibly useful.
There are much better choices that bring us more, like Shireen if we really want to tie ourselves to Stannis.. the problems with her are that's she's young- she's what 8? 9?, and may be barren thanks to the greyscale, but it does put future Starks on the throne since Stannis ain't ever having more kids. On the other hand, the Starks have never done well in Kings Landing, so it might be better to just say fuck that noise and leave the Southrons to themselves and tidy up the Riverlands and co.
Like, say Renly bites it and Margaery is open for marriage. She's a much bigger boon than Ysilla Royce and others right now that we can currently marry, providing us with the Reach's support and essentially surrounding the Westerlands on all sides and including the sea if we mobilized naval forces from the Reach. Though marrying Margaery would likely require more negotiations than say Ysilla..
Asha or whatever her name is here might be an interesting choice if Balon didn't have a massive hate-boner for the Starks. If we look past the shittery of the Ironborn, marrying her would bring us the support of the Ironborn navy.
Or we could always marry Arianne, even though she's an enormous slut, since it'd give us the support of Dorne. Admittedly, Dorne is miles away, has little forces, Doran is a little bitch and a bunch of Dorne is full of shits... plus Arianne is a complete slut and would totally try and cuck us.
Ysilla doesn't really offer us anything. Significant portions of the Vale is only neutral because Lysa is in charge, and they already really like Ned because of his honour and also because of the whole "alliance" thing. We don't really need to try and increase our ties with them in this generation.. or at least, we don't need to waste Robb's marriage on them. Who Robb marries should be somebody that actually brings us something incredibly useful.
There are much better choices that bring us more, like Shireen if we really want to tie ourselves to Stannis.. the problems with her are that's she's young- she's what 8? 9?, and may be barren thanks to the greyscale, but it does put future Starks on the throne since Stannis ain't ever having more kids. On the other hand, the Starks have never done well in Kings Landing, so it might be better to just say fuck that noise and leave the Southrons to themselves and tidy up the Riverlands and co.
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- Asia
[X] Plan: Secure the East, burn the West
I like this plan because it is mostly conservative.
Guys we need to attack the Westerlands and push them back. How are you going to make a deal with the Leffords when they are surrounded by westermen ? We need to push back the boundary of Westerlands to get the Leffords to jump ship.
I like this plan because it is mostly conservative.
Guys we need to attack the Westerlands and push them back. How are you going to make a deal with the Leffords when they are surrounded by westermen ? We need to push back the boundary of Westerlands to get the Leffords to jump ship.
I think after everything that happened in KL to Ned, it is quite in character. Let's look at it from his perspective: Littlefinger is his enemy. It is known that he's close to Lysa, was her childhood friend, and there are still rumors about them going around. Littlefinger did everything to have Ned beheaded. Lysa fled the capital after Jon Arryn's death and did absolutely nothing to help out her kin. That makes her quite definitely not an ally of the Starks and most probably an enemy. Everything that was said or written by Lysa can now not be relied upon, after her lack of actions, or is, at least, suspect. Is there a danger -- knowing that Lysa and LIttlefinger are said to be close -- that he's gonna try talking her into going after us? There is. How do we deal with that? We could just plainly accuse her of a lot of crimes, but we are not dishonorable, so we don't do that. We hint, though, because we suspect her not being kosher and that's just justifiable enough for our actions.
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- Underground
This. We have no reason to start further trouble in the West. Any plan should mention continuing negotiations for ransoms with the West, etc. Tywin...I'm not sure about. Should we Wall him or open up negotiations for his eventual ransom but expect them to last a long time?
Gregor will of course die, and I see no reason not to give his bones to Dorne. It costs us nothing and is a gain of some good will. How useful that good will is is questionable at best...but I doubt it hurts.
I think we should let the Vale be for the most part. But the Blackfish is highly respected there. We could send word with him of what Baelish did in King's Landing to the other Vale lords. It could at least weaken Baelish and Lysa's influence and open up possibilities later without seeming like a hostile takeover.
I may make a plan of my own...but working things out first.
Miscellaneous things I'd like to see in a plan:
-If Ramsay Snow is in a cell in Winterfell for a crime punishable by death: Kill him.
-Veteran force up North to the Wall to aid a Ranging/scouting mission, figure out what's going on up there. Maybe some funds going to the Watch.
-Shore up the western coast's defenses to make it seem a less appealing target to the Ironborn.
-Pick up any of Robert's bastards we can. Ned does want to make sure they're okay.
As for marriages...I don't know. Theon to either one of the Manderlys or Dacey?
Robb could stay available for now. But if we want a bride from a Northern House for him, what are the options?
Don't know about the others, but suggesting (we don't have an actual say) a LeffordxTully match helps secure the Riverlands western border.
I do kind of want to send feelers out to Dorne and the Iron Islands, just to get even a glimpse at their current positions. Gregor's head should buy some good will with Dorne. I'm worried that approaching Balon in any way will just provoke an attack, though. He's crazy-stupid like that.
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- Location
- Mists of Albion
The Tyrell's will never settle for Robb, they want a queen, and Stannis hates the Reach Lords and will likely punish them again if he wins.
Asha is just no... she'd never except it, the Iron Islands would never accept it and she'd make a terrible wife that gives us no security or alliances
And you've just said why Arianne is a no no.
Ysilla does offer us security on our eastern flank and secures resistance to any attack from the Vale from Lysa, an attack that is very likely to occur I remind you.
And you've just pointed out why Shireen is a bad idea. You've just pointed out why Ysilla is the only decent candidate by delegitimising the others and your argument that she gives us nothing doesn't really work overly.
Telling that to all the Vale Lords will not fly, they'll see it us as fermenting issues and stiring shit. It's only going to add legitimacy to any declaration of war Lysa gives, we will be slandering her and it will also take away some of our goodwill in the Vale. It's unnecessary when we have no allies in the Vale and they don't know what we know about Baelish or the situation aside from what we tell them
Aside from the loot we get and the fact they are raising forces to attack us meaning we can't go south to fight as long as they are there
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- Somewhere
Ysilla doesn't really offer us security on the eastern flank in my view. If Lysa does order the Vale to march on us, nobody's going to really refuse her with "but muh Ysilla marriage to Robb!". The Royces may try and put as little support in as possible, or not muster their banners, but all the others would still see Lysa/Robin as "The Arryns" and obey. The Royces don't even have to worry about us harming Ysilla because of Stark honour, if she's even sent off to Winterfell whilst the war is ongoing.
The only way to remove the threat to the east is to remove Lysa from power and remove Robin from her. Marrying Ysilla literally does nothing for that, as with Lysa in power, our east may still be under threat, if she even bothers to try and make a play..
Admittedly, the Vale Lords might refuse to march against their "allies" of the North and Riverlands, but marrying Ysilla wouldn't play a significant role in that, so marrying her is just a complete waste when there are much better choices.
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- Mists of Albion
Margaery is very very very unlikely to happen, it's not worth it to wait
From anyone but Ned, yes, this would be seen as seeding disorder. But we're talking about honorable Ned Stark who was Jon Arryn's ward. What he says counts for a lot, and I don't believe for a second that he wouldn't be aware of the danger Littlefinger and thus Lysa Arryn poses to his family after we poked Littlefinger by wanting his head on a pike.
Also, as I said before, we would anger a lot of Northern lords if a second time in two generations the heir of Winterfell married south. We can't do that. We need to keep our base -- the North -- close to us; closer than any others. A good position with the Vale will be just as possible through Sansa marrying either a Royce or Harry the Heir.
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- Who knows?
Whelp I thought she would be included as a member of our household. Nice to know she still made it out.
@McLuvin A lot of your "preemptive" actions regarding the Vale would be really really easy to interpret as a Northern powergrab. I'd worry about creating a new enemy front when we didn't already have one
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- Mists of Albion
Yeah no, the Royces are really powerful, Yohn Royce is really influential and Ned Stark is highly respected, if Lysa flies off the handlebars there is no chance that Lysa will be able to attack us without major resistance, made even stronger by the Royces defiance, there would be a civil war that Lysa wouldn't win.
Marrying Ysilla ties us closer to our Vale 'allies' and ensures that there will be a focal point for us in any Civil war against Lysa. She won't be a threat then
The 1000 troops ( a really small amount) led by a popular knight who has served the Vale for years looking for a Vale traitor who attacked our Lord? That's not provocative
The marriage between two houses which are old allies and friends? Who have a long history of cooperation and fighting together, a Royce even dying alongside Brandon to Aerys, two firm friends? That's not provocative
The letters? Yeah, those aren't provocative and are far far less provocative than Plan Fortify
Lysa will come for us, there will be an eastern front, my plan neutralises that front and leaves Baelish powerless without being too provocative
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Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
I'm not so sure. Actually, I'd not be surprised if quite a few of the Vale Lords would eagerly gobble up even an outright accusation, if we made one. Even without proof.
Consider that Lysa is very poorly regarded in the Vale. Robin is a terrible heir for Jon Arryn (whose memory the most powerful of the Vale Lords are still loyal too, in the same way many northen Lords in canon were loyal to Ned's memory) and Lysa is the one being blamed for it (justly so). I bet more than a few would be glad to be rid of her. Littlefinger, too, is a social pariah by Vale standards.
Now add to that the accusation would be coming from Ned Stark, who as Jon Arryn's foster son and Man of Honor (tm) is very highly regarded in the Vale and whose wife is the sister of the person accused, meaning he has absolutely no reason to make such an accusation unless he truly believes it to be true...
Yeah, I can see them accepting it.
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- Mists of Albion
That won't help. If you came in insinuating Lysa Arryn killed her husband your are going to lose a lot of good will. We have no evidence, and non matter how honourable Ned Stark is, attacking Lysa like that will piss off and lose the good will of many Vale Lords.
The North is more loyal than ever before, they love Ned Stark, they love Robb Stark, and a marriage to Sansa would ensure their support completely. Using Robb, our most valuable marriage, for something as unnecessary as a Northern marriage is wasteful as all hell, furthermore Ysilla Royce is of First Men blood, once kings of The Mountain and one of the most prominent First Men non Northern bloodlines and tied to a house that has a long history of friendship with the The North, that is going to make her a lot more popular than Cat initially was and basically makes the southern part a far lesser factor than you are making out
These are the Vale Lords who pride themselves on honour and loyalty, who supported Lysa despite her being obviously mad and hated the Lannisters just on her word that they were bad. These are the Vale Lords who always supported Robin, even when they laid siege to the Eyrie they didn't even think to remove him for their more favourable heir, even when he was under Baelish's thumb. Now imagine these Lords hear all this from a single Lord they haven't seen in about a decade and who half of them have only heard about.
I cannot see them accepting
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Walpurgis Knight
Guardian of Folkvang
- Location
- Union of Cascadian Socialist Republics (UCSR)
Plan Knight of Walpurgis has folded into Plan Turtle.
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