Winter is Coming: House Stark Quest
- Thread starter Charcolt
- Start date
NúmenoreanNazgûl
Witch-King
- Location
- Minas Morgul
It's less about making mistakes and more about not understanding/knowing things. Like not knowing that you made a mistake, or not understanding why it was a mistake.
- Location
- Underground
[X] Plan spudman
-[X] Jaime will be exchanged for Ned, Sansa, Arya (once found) and any of his men still imprisoned by Lannisters. Robert's bastards and any family will have safe passage along with Ned's party. The other noble hostages stay with the army as 'insurance'. Tyrion and Kevan's sons' release can be negotiated if Cersei makes a counter-offer.
-[X] The North and Riverlands will also receive fair compensation directly from Casterly Rock's coffers for the damage caused and men lost.
-[X] You will also be given back Ice, that book 'proving' Cersei's incest and Littlefinger's head right the hell now.
-[X] The Northern host will not march on King's Landing (for a number of months to be determined).
-[X] Myrcella as a hostage. Another hostage may be exchanged for her if Cersei counter offers. Not Tywin or Gregor.
Meh. Seems a simple enough compromise. If she goes straight for it, free hostage. If she wants an exchange we go from there.
-[X] Jaime will be exchanged for Ned, Sansa, Arya (once found) and any of his men still imprisoned by Lannisters. Robert's bastards and any family will have safe passage along with Ned's party. The other noble hostages stay with the army as 'insurance'. Tyrion and Kevan's sons' release can be negotiated if Cersei makes a counter-offer.
-[X] The North and Riverlands will also receive fair compensation directly from Casterly Rock's coffers for the damage caused and men lost.
-[X] You will also be given back Ice, that book 'proving' Cersei's incest and Littlefinger's head right the hell now.
-[X] The Northern host will not march on King's Landing (for a number of months to be determined).
-[X] Myrcella as a hostage. Another hostage may be exchanged for her if Cersei counter offers. Not Tywin or Gregor.
Meh. Seems a simple enough compromise. If she goes straight for it, free hostage. If she wants an exchange we go from there.
Last edited:
Cteatus
A Guy Who Fell Down a Hole
- Location
- Florida
She might go for it for free to get her away from the Baratheons.
- Location
- United States
I really hate the idea of giving Cersei any hostages at all. I'd much rather not have Myrcella than give her anyone from our faction.
- Location
- Underground
True. Cersei may even suggest it on her own. If nothing else she knows Ned is honorable to a fault and doesn't want her children dead.
If Cersei counter-offers we go from there. If, as a group, we really don't want to exchange hostages then we don't have to accept that part of the deal.
Anyway, wow. I'm really surprised to see the amount of votes this has gotten so far.
Hoping for more at this point to make sure those additions do happen. Though I'm hoping CM will agree with the additions and change his plan (to at least have the bastards protected) or switch votes.
Last edited:
- Location
- Pacific NW
[X] Plan spudman
- Location
- Who knows?
[X] Plan Spudman.
RE: Myrcella I would definitely think emphasizing that the Starks are like her only enemy that doesnt want to kill all her kids out of principle would be a strong argument here.
RE: Myrcella I would definitely think emphasizing that the Starks are like her only enemy that doesnt want to kill all her kids out of principle would be a strong argument here.
Last edited:
If you don't put your comment on a new line, the tally counts it as part of your vote.
- Location
- KFC
[X] Plan spudman
- Location
- Europe
So, in order to solve the problem of Ned and Sansa being hostages in King's Landing, people want to give them another hostage in return for getting Myrcella? Sounds legit. Whether we give the Lannisters a hostage probably depends on the dice and I really don't like the idea of handing over someone from our family or someone from one of our vassals' families and leaving them in that pit of snakes.
Might want to mention safe passage out of the city along with our party for Ser Barristan as well, @spudman. He's not a hostage, but Cersei is a vindictive fucking bitch.
Also, might want to make this for some number of months to be determined in the negotiations, rather than an absolute. Charcolt would probably understand it that way anyways, but I like plans to have clarity.
Also, might want to make this for some number of months to be determined in the negotiations, rather than an absolute. Charcolt would probably understand it that way anyways, but I like plans to have clarity.
- Location
- Australia
[X] Plan spudman
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
I like plan spudman, but any hostage exchange (as in, one of ours becomes a hostage instead of being released) should be a complete dealbreaker.
We don't need Myrcella. She'd be useful insurance, but we don't need her. What we do need is all Starks safe and soundly out of King's Landing and preferably back north.
Keep in mind that even if Cersei would admittedly be unlikely to harm any northern hostage while Myrcella is in our hands, Stannis or Renly would have no such qualms.
Actually, Stannis or Renly would have no qualms about harming Myrcella and Tommen either. Winterfell might very well be the safest place for them right now, other than perhaps Casterly Rock. And Cersei knows that Ned wouldn't harm them - he's already demonstrated his willingness to let them go into exile if it comes to that, and his clash with Robert over the dead Targaryen children is well known.
Play our cards right, and we might well get Myrcella anyway. Perhaps in exchange for releasing Kevan's sons and our word that in the event of a Baratheon victory we will send her to the Free Cities instead giving her to Stannis or Renly?
We don't need Myrcella. She'd be useful insurance, but we don't need her. What we do need is all Starks safe and soundly out of King's Landing and preferably back north.
Keep in mind that even if Cersei would admittedly be unlikely to harm any northern hostage while Myrcella is in our hands, Stannis or Renly would have no such qualms.
Actually, Stannis or Renly would have no qualms about harming Myrcella and Tommen either. Winterfell might very well be the safest place for them right now, other than perhaps Casterly Rock. And Cersei knows that Ned wouldn't harm them - he's already demonstrated his willingness to let them go into exile if it comes to that, and his clash with Robert over the dead Targaryen children is well known.
Play our cards right, and we might well get Myrcella anyway. Perhaps in exchange for releasing Kevan's sons and our word that in the event of a Baratheon victory we will send her to the Free Cities instead giving her to Stannis or Renly?
Make it clear in your plan that any hostage exchange is a no-go, then. We'd be willing to exchange promises, captured Westerlanders (other than Tywin), military neutrality and assurances of her safety for Myrcella, but not hostages. It's a good plan, but the possibility of any Stark being stuck in King's Landing is inacceptable.
Last edited:
- Location
- Australia
I don't believe that plan offers anything in exchange for her, now - we're just demanding and seeing how the bargaining works out.
- Location
- Australia
[X] Plan spudman
I would gladly vote for plan Spudman if it wasn't for that last line, "An exchange of hostages could be on the table." Why on Earth would we ever give the Lannisters a hostage? The entire basis of our war was rescuing our family. Leaving one of them in King's Landing for Myrcella is totally absurd.
Cersei has no point negotiating except as a means of stalling for time. Right now, her biggest problem is us with an army at her doorstep. The only thing that is keeping the army from attacking are her hostages - Ned and Sansa. Any promise and hostage exchange is inferior because the army threat does not vanish.
Only another westerlands army can counter this threat. If we let her stall, we will have to risk a hard battle that could be avoided.
[x] Plan WS
- [x] We are winning - attack the westerlands and finish the threat once and for all. Avoid the bait that is negotiation!
Only another westerlands army can counter this threat. If we let her stall, we will have to risk a hard battle that could be avoided.
[x] Plan WS
- [x] We are winning - attack the westerlands and finish the threat once and for all. Avoid the bait that is negotiation!
Last edited:
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
Making the Case
"...and Myrcella will become our guest at Winterfe-"
"NO! A THOUSAND TIMES NO! You won't have my daughter!"
Had Ned been challenged to say one good thing about the adulterous queen, the fact that she seemed to honestly love her children would probably have been the first (and only) thing to come to mind. Even so, he was still surprised by the vehemence of her response.
"I'll tear down your little northern hovel with my own hands before I let you have any of my children! I'll burn do-"
He could use this.
"If Stannis takes King's Landing, what will happen to her?"
"- what?"
"If Stannis takes King's Landing, if you are utterly and totally beaten..." he could see her bristle at the scenario outlined "...what will happen to Myrcella?"
The Queen remained silent.
"If Renly takes King's Landing, what will happen to Myrcella?"
Again, the queen silently stewed. Truth be told, Ned wasn't actually entirely certain what either Stannis or Renly would do with Myrcella if she should fall into their hands. But a woman like Cersei, who had no concept of honor or mercy herself?
She would no doubt assume the worst.
"You know I'm no slayer of children." he continued, "I was willing to let you escape into exile just to spare their lives. At great cost to myself."
He could almost hear the Queen thinking "you fool" within the privacy of her own head. But the point was well made.
"Myrcella will go to Winterfell. I will rest easy, knowing that you will not betray me while she remains my guest. And you will rest easy... well, easier in any case... knowing that she is safe, sheltered by the one enemy you have who will not harm her."
"And if Stannis wins? If Renly wins?" she asked, and he knew that he had won.
"If Stannis wins..." he said, and he paused, slightly amazed himself about what he was about to say and the fact that he'd actually mean it, "...,if Renly wins, it may be that they will write a letter to me, demanding I surrender her to them. And should that happen, I will respond with a letter of my own, assuring His Grace that of course I will turn over the Lannister spawn at once. And some time after that, there will be another letter, about how your daughter and her escort vanished without trace while crossing the Neck - slain by brigands and lost to the swamp, no doubt. And Stannis or Renly will have to accept it, because they will have no proof that's not what happened."
It would be treason, in a way. But he no longer cared. Not after all that had happened, not after what House Stark had lost and what they had almost lost... might still lose.
Honor was important. But it wasn't everything.
Stannis? Stannis had known, Eddard was sure of it now. He had known what had happened to Jon, he had known about the Queen's incest and adultery. And instead of warning him, so that they might set things right together, Stannis had thrown Ned to the lions while he sulked on Dragonstone.
Renly? Renly had fled the capital while Ned was struggling to keep the realm together and avoid a Lannister coup and civil war, he was trying to become King even though he had no right at all. He was no different from the Lannisters himself.
To their seven hells with them. He'd bend the knee, he'd call either of them "Your Grace" and pay the taxes if that was what it took to keep the North safe, but to their seven hells with them anyway.
"And Myrcella?" asked the Lannister snake in front of him, momentarily not a snake but a concerned mother. "Where would Myrcella be?"
He shrugged. "Wherever she wishes to be. Maybe the Free Cities. Maybe Oldtown. Maybe somewhere I've never heard of. She won't have a crown, or a House, or even a name, but she will have plenty of gold in her pocket, more waiting for her at the Iron Bank, and the freedom to go wherever she pleases. You have my word on that."
"...and Myrcella will become our guest at Winterfe-"
"NO! A THOUSAND TIMES NO! You won't have my daughter!"
Had Ned been challenged to say one good thing about the adulterous queen, the fact that she seemed to honestly love her children would probably have been the first (and only) thing to come to mind. Even so, he was still surprised by the vehemence of her response.
"I'll tear down your little northern hovel with my own hands before I let you have any of my children! I'll burn do-"
He could use this.
"If Stannis takes King's Landing, what will happen to her?"
"- what?"
"If Stannis takes King's Landing, if you are utterly and totally beaten..." he could see her bristle at the scenario outlined "...what will happen to Myrcella?"
The Queen remained silent.
"If Renly takes King's Landing, what will happen to Myrcella?"
Again, the queen silently stewed. Truth be told, Ned wasn't actually entirely certain what either Stannis or Renly would do with Myrcella if she should fall into their hands. But a woman like Cersei, who had no concept of honor or mercy herself?
She would no doubt assume the worst.
"You know I'm no slayer of children." he continued, "I was willing to let you escape into exile just to spare their lives. At great cost to myself."
He could almost hear the Queen thinking "you fool" within the privacy of her own head. But the point was well made.
"Myrcella will go to Winterfell. I will rest easy, knowing that you will not betray me while she remains my guest. And you will rest easy... well, easier in any case... knowing that she is safe, sheltered by the one enemy you have who will not harm her."
"And if Stannis wins? If Renly wins?" she asked, and he knew that he had won.
"If Stannis wins..." he said, and he paused, slightly amazed himself about what he was about to say and the fact that he'd actually mean it, "...,if Renly wins, it may be that they will write a letter to me, demanding I surrender her to them. And should that happen, I will respond with a letter of my own, assuring His Grace that of course I will turn over the Lannister spawn at once. And some time after that, there will be another letter, about how your daughter and her escort vanished without trace while crossing the Neck - slain by brigands and lost to the swamp, no doubt. And Stannis or Renly will have to accept it, because they will have no proof that's not what happened."
It would be treason, in a way. But he no longer cared. Not after all that had happened, not after what House Stark had lost and what they had almost lost... might still lose.
Honor was important. But it wasn't everything.
Stannis? Stannis had known, Eddard was sure of it now. He had known what had happened to Jon, he had known about the Queen's incest and adultery. And instead of warning him, so that they might set things right together, Stannis had thrown Ned to the lions while he sulked on Dragonstone.
Renly? Renly had fled the capital while Ned was struggling to keep the realm together and avoid a Lannister coup and civil war, he was trying to become King even though he had no right at all. He was no different from the Lannisters himself.
To their seven hells with them. He'd bend the knee, he'd call either of them "Your Grace" and pay the taxes if that was what it took to keep the North safe, but to their seven hells with them anyway.
"And Myrcella?" asked the Lannister snake in front of him, momentarily not a snake but a concerned mother. "Where would Myrcella be?"
He shrugged. "Wherever she wishes to be. Maybe the Free Cities. Maybe Oldtown. Maybe somewhere I've never heard of. She won't have a crown, or a House, or even a name, but she will have plenty of gold in her pocket, more waiting for her at the Iron Bank, and the freedom to go wherever she pleases. You have my word on that."
Last edited: