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Winter is Coming: House Stark Quest

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What did Varys do to Med to warrant us to demand him in chains? Wasn't he helping us earlier? I saw way to many suggestions for him in chains so I'm really curious. Also, while we can get away with killing Gregor for the Riverlands thing, Tywin might be a different story, considering it was ordered in retaliation for the 'unjust' imprisonment of his heir. I will admit to not knowing exactly how it works, and the likelihood of anyone not a Lannister is small, but it's something to consider.
 
Without the WW just how is Mance pulling together such a large army? Eh lets just wipe out the wildlings who fight and help those who stay neutral. If you guys want to find value in the NW, mine the Wall for ice to sell to Essos.
 
ShyGuy said:
I just want a good amount of Gold to help fortify the North and satisfy our men, maybe build up Moat Cailin a bit and repair some holdfasts. Also, I was just thinking that if we actually get Baelish's head then Lysa will flip. Who wants to bet she suddenly starts ordering her bannermen to attack us on the way back North?
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That's definitely a way to get herself thrown out of power, Ned is highly respected and loved there and Baelish was disliked from the start
 
Besides hoping both Atri and Crimson Moon add retrieving the bastards (and family) and bringing Ser Barristan along (if he wants)...

Do the North and Riverlands reparations really need to be negotiated now? Even if we give Tyrion and Kevan's sons along with Jaime we still have a lot of hostages.

The reparations just seem like something extra that Cersei might balk at. Or she'll demand Tywin and all the others in exchange for. We can play hard ball but not so hard that the more basic exchange (Jamie and maybe Tyrion and Kevan's sons for Ned, Sansa, and crew) falls through.
 
McLuvin said:
The Northern Lords would never accept a Widling Lady of Winterfell. Especially one who cares so little for the 'kneelers ways' such as Val, and she comes to Robb without being a maiden which makes her even worse as the Lady of Winterfell in the eyes of our Lords.
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I don't give a fuck. We beat the Lannisters like they were a bunch of Tully stepsons. We marry whoever we want. And get paramour too. We badass like that.

They see us ridin, our wolf, they begging mercy because oh my good that's a horse sized wolf and it's biting my neck.

See? All works out.
 
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Duesal said:
@Crimson Moon, can you add taking Ser Barristan with us as one of the conditions?
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Why on earth would he?

Barristan is no longer a member of the Kingsguard. Neither Cersei nor Joffrey have any authority over him, at best what needs to be added is a guarantee of safe passage for him, but even then I dunno. Its been a few hours at least now, if he's not dead then clearly he's free to go.

And at that point it becomes a matter of seeing whether Barristan wants to come with us, which has nothing to do with Cersei.
 
Jean Danjou said:
I don't give a fuck. We beat the Lannisters like they were a bunch of Tully stepsons. We marry whoever we want. And get paramour too. We badass like that.

They see us ridin, our wolf, they begging mercy because oh my good that's a horse sized wolf and it's biting my neck.

See? All works out.
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.......I think cannon Robb displays best why the idea that 'fuck you I marry who I want' doesn't work in the politics of Westeros, even before the Red Wedding many of his Lords were very discontent with his Western Wife, a foe they'd been fighting a single year. They've fought the Wildlings for eight thousand years. Some of them have even lost family to them. We all remember what happened to the Karstarks when Robb refused to let them take vengeance on an old foe.

Imagine that just with the Northmost Northern Lords. The normally loyalist houses, the Umbars, Karstarks and Mormonts would be pissed

A hot girl who is kind of stuck up and looks down her nose at the Stark ways isn't worth it in the slightest.
 
Cteatus said:
Why on earth would he?

Barristan is no longer a member of the Kingsguard. Neither Cersei nor Joffrey have any authority over him, at best what needs to be added is a guarantee of safe passage for him, but even then I dunno. Its been a few hours at least now, if he's not dead then clearly he's free to go.

And at that point it becomes a matter of seeing whether Barristan wants to come with us, which has nothing to do with Cersei.
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The guarantee of safe passage is basically all I want. After he's out of the city Barristan is free to go wherever the hell he wants to as far as I'm concerned, but I certainly won't complain if he sticks with us.
 
McLuvin said:
.......I think cannon Robb displays best why the idea that 'fuck you I marry who I want' doesn't work in the politics of Westeros, even before the Red Wedding many of his Lords were very discontent with his Western Wife, a foe they'd been fighting a single year. They've fought the Wildlings for eight thousand years. Some of them have even lost family to them. We all remember what happened to the Karstarks when Robb refused to let them take vengeance on an old foe.

Imagine that just with the Northmost Northern Lords. The normally loyalist houses, the Umbars, Karstarks and Mormonts would be pissed

A hot girl who is kind of stuck up and looks down her nose at the Stark ways isn't worth it in the slightest.
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Oh yeah? Can you please prove then, that Lords other than the Freys disliked his wife? Specifically. Please. Give me some quotes. Funny thing though. Did you read the books? Because I clearly remember you only mentioning TV series Canon and he didn't marry a western girl there.

I mean. We could try to work it out with the Wildlings and absorb them and use some of them for the vast abandoned keeps in the north. But who cares right? Kill them all.
 
Prince Ire said:
But why on Earth would the Night's Watch be disbanded?
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Why on Earth would the vastly undermanned organization that has proven to just decline over the years, and at this point can't realistically hold back frigging Wildlings. Hell, the last King Beyond the Wall managed to kill a Lord of Winterfell because the Watch lacks the manpower to really be an independent organization.

At this point it's best to just disband the Night's Watch and return the lands to the North for settlement.
 
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Widowmaker said:
Why on Earth would the vastly undermanned organization that has proven to just decline over the years, and at this point can't realistically hold back frigging Wildlings. Hell, the last King Beyond the Wall managed to kill a Lord of Winterfell because the Watch lacks the manpower to really be an independent organization.

At this point its best to just disband the Night's Watch and return the lands to the North for settlement.
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The Northern Lords would heavily protest disbanding the order. Even if the Night's Watch can't fully protect against the Wildlings, they at least blunt the damage. Without them there's zero first line of defense and the entire North becomes fair game for the Wildlings.

Hell, this would be legitimate grounds for houses Karstark and Umber to revolt against us because they're the closest castles to the Wall. We'd basically be signing their death warrants.
 
Jean Danjou said:
Oh yeah? Can you please prove then, that Lords other than the Freys disliked his wife? Specifically. Please. Give me some quotes. Funny thing though. Did you read the books? Because I clearly remember you only mentioning TV series Canon and he didn't marry a western girl there.

I mean. We could try to work it out with the Wildlings and absorb them and use some of them for the vast abandoned keeps in the north. But who cares right? Kill them all.
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So yeah I remember even his mother didn't particularly like her, Robb having to outright try and convince her Jeyne was a good person even in the books, going on about her being kind and beautiful and smart and Jeyne was desperate to try and say she was going to be a good wife and try to be a good queen, when even Catelyn Tully starts to judge you, you have a problem. And if you think I'm going to go through the entirety of the book to get quotes for you of all people after the way you continue to act....
Yeah no. Screw that, I'm not going through the entirety of Storm of Swords.

Yeah, work it out with the Wildlings, who would be near impossible to intergrate, relatively easy to beat and who are universally hated by all our bannermen. That will make us oh so popular won't it?

You act like it's so simple, it's not. The North hates the Wildlings, the Widlings don't want to obey our laws, they want to raid, rape and pillage, and this time there are no White Walkers to justify them. They are an invading army, don't just forgive them because you've got a hard on for a fictional character.
 
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Duesal said:
The Northern Lords would heavily protest disbanding the order. Even if the Night's Watch can't fully protect against the Wildlings, they at least blunt the damage. Without them there's zero first line of defense and the entire North becomes fair game for the Wildlings.

Hell, this would be legitimate grounds for houses Karstark and Umber to revolt against us because they're the closest castles to the Wall. We'd basically be signing their death warrants.
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Other lords in Westeros would also object to disbanding the Night's Watch, because while they don't particularly care about the general prosperity of the Night's Watch they do care about it being available as a political tool - it's a great way to avoid dying after losing a war, or if your son committed some crime that your liege lord would execute him for, or if you've got some useless heir that you want to replace with his younger brother, or if you've just got too many younger sons and not enough prospects for marriage or extra keeps for them, etc.
 
McLuvin said:
So yeah I remember even his mother didn't particularly like her, Robb having to outright try and convince her Jeyne was a good person even in the books, going on about her being kind and beautiful and smart and Jeyne was desperate to try and say she was going to be a good wife and try to be a good queen, when even your Catelyn Tully starts to judge you, you have a problem. And if you think I'm going to go through the entirety of the book to get quotes for you of all people after the way you continue to act....
Yeah no. Screw that, I'm not going through the entirety of Storm of Swords.

Yeah, work it out with the Wildlings, who would be near impossible to intergrate, relatively easy to beat and who are universally hated by all our bannermen. That will make us oh so popular won't it?

You act like it's so simple, it's not. The North hates the Wildlings, the Widlings don't want to obey our laws, they want to raid, rape and pillage, and this time there are no White Walkers to justify them. They are an invading army, don't just forgive them because you've got a hard on for a fictional character.
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Catelyn judges everyone. She is incredibly judgemental and protective of her kids. She also though Rob was putting his honor first in a stupid way. Stuuuuuuupid way because specially he was insulting the Freys. So uh. Wrong point. I think it's ironic that now you want to super realistic and stuff while voting for genocide.

Ha. I like how everytime you can answer my points you switch gears to attacking me. First I'm stupid then I'm angry then I'm too aggressive now I'm an obsessed idiot. If you wanna disagree, fine. But be ready to back up your points. Don't go insulting other people because you can argue.
 
Hey guys, I read somewhere about this theory that Ned and Joer Mormont where planning to reverse the aquisition of the New Gift back to the North for the North to work it and have it's gains go to the Night's Watch. Like how it was before the Targaryens forced the Starks to give up the land. Part of the decline of the Night's Watch has been linked to that acquisition of the New Gift.

Here from the New Gift wiki:

"During the reign of King Jaehaerys I Targaryen, thousands of years later, Good Queen Alysanne visited the Wall with her dragon, Silverwing. She held the Night's Watch in great esteem and convinced her husband Jaehaerys to double the land, extending it a further twenty-five leagues south. The new territory was named the New Gift.[1] The Starks of Winterfell were angered at being forced to surrender the territory, as they believed the Night's Watch would focus their attention beyond the Wall and would neglect the New Gift."

Gift

Why not we use diplomacy to give this land back to the North in return for greater efficiency in manning the lands, and the betterment of the Night's Watch as a whole?

In cannon, this land was given to the Wildlings to settle, why not give it to northern lords? The Mountain Clans, Umbers, and Karstarks to administer? Also, I agree that disbanding the Night's Watch is a hilariously bad idea for the reasons given above by other posters.
 
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Jean Danjou said:
Ha. I like how everytime you can answer my points you switch gears to attacking me.
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So the fact you called me a liar and attempted to call moronic on multiple occasions before I pointed out your spelling mistakes last time makes me the bad guy? And the fact that this time, because I dared to mention the TV Show, you questioned wether I'd even read the books in the first place in a rather insulting fashion makes you completely innocent of being the one who attacks others.

You act like I'm the bad guy when you continue to deride and insult me continuously. I'm just reacting to your behaviour. You seriously need to get that shit sorted out if you don't even realise how insulting you've constantly been acting.

Jean Danjou said:
Catelyn judges everyone
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Source, if you can do it to me I can do it to you.
Jean Danjou said:
I think it's ironic that now you want to super realistic and stuff while voting for genocide.
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When was I ever not being realistic? I've tried to lay out good plans for the future, never have I ever tried to 'Jump the shark' and I'm voting for defeating an attacking army, because that's what the Wildlings are, they don't have the White Walkers behind them this time, they aren't looking to be safe, they are looking to invade just like every other King Beyond the Wall. Get that in your head. These are no better than the Lannisters, half of them are rapists, some are cannibals and there may be a decent person or two in there but the same could be said for those 40,000 Westerlanders we slaughtered, captured and scattered.

They are the enemy in this timeline, just because one of them is hot doesn't mean we should piss off our bannermen and ruin far better marriage alliances for our people and the war down south
 
Violation of Rule 3 and 4: "Be civil" and "Don't be disruptive": Just because you declare a thing as a fact does not make it so, and this is a problem when it comes to accusing someone of dishonesty without actually providing proof of it
McLuvin said:
So the fact you called me a liar and attempted to call moronic on multiple occasions before I pointed out your spelling mistakes last time makes me the bad guy? And the fact that this time, because I dared to mention the TV Show, you questioned wether I'd even read the books in the first place in a rather insulting fashion makes you completely innocent of being the one who attacks others.

You act like I'm the bad guy when you continue to deride and insult me continuously. I'm just reacting to your behaviour. You seriously need to get that shit sorted out if you don't even realise how insulting you've constantly been acting.


Source, if you can do it to me I can do it to you.

When was I ever not being realistic? I've tried to lay out good plans for the future, never have I ever tried to 'Jump the shark' and I'm voting for defeating an attacking army, because that's what the Wildlings are, they don't have the White Walkers behind them this time, they aren't looking to be safe, they are looking to invade just like every other King Beyond the Wall. Get that in your head. These are no better than the Lannisters, half of them are rapists, some are cannibals and there may be a decent person or two in there but the same could be said for those 40,000 Westerlanders we slaughtered, captured and scattered.

They are the enemy in this timeline, just because one of them is hot doesn't mean we should piss off our bannermen and ruin far better marriage alliances for our people and the war down south
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You're a liar because you keep making claims you can't back up. Everytime I call on you to prove your claims you ignore it. So. Uh. That's a fact. And you're ignoring the fact that I proposed her to be Paramour. That's tots better. Just need to find bisexual waifu now. There's the Redwyne girl. She is cousin to Loras and Marg. That's strong gay/bi genes there.
 
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