Winter is Coming: House Stark Quest

@Atri: I like your plan, but I urge you to modify it a bit according to my plan (see above). Particularly, I suggest getting rid of these terms:
-[X] If, after a year, no Lannister attacks happen upon our territories, then Lannister men can be ransomed back. Tywin goes last.
-[X] As long as Cersei's line are on the throne, the North and all territories under its rule don't acknowledge the King of the Iron Throne as their sovereign.

And adding these:
-[X] Exchange of prisoners to take place halfway between our army and King's Landing, with Robb bringing as large an escort as he wants.
-[X] If they want Tywin, Tyrion, any of the others, etc. that is to be agreed upon with further negotiations once we're back with our army.
-[X] We won't execute any of the hostages who haven't committed obvious crimes until further negotiation (so we can't execute Tyrion, for example, but we can execute Gregor).

There's no reason to set explicit terms on negotiations when Tywin is really the one who is supposed to be doing the negotiating, and they technically can't make any binding agreements without him. Tywin goes last could especially be a dealbreaker. And there are no reasons to set terms for our fealty - we haven't sworn anything yet, so we don't have to disavow ourselves, but explicitly saying in the negotiations we won't swear fealty is basically telling them they need to give up two of the Seven Kingdoms, which no sane ruler would ever do.
 
@Atri: I like your plan, but I urge you to modify it a bit according to my plan (see above). Particularly, I suggest getting rid of these terms:
-[X] If, after a year, no Lannister attacks happen upon our territories, then Lannister men can be ransomed back. Tywin goes last.
-[X] As long as Cersei's line are on the throne, the North and all territories under its rule don't acknowledge the King of the Iron Throne as their sovereign.

And adding these:
-[X] Exchange of prisoners to take place halfway between our army and King's Landing, with Robb bringing as large an escort as he wants.
-[X] If they want Tywin, Tyrion, any of the others, etc. that is to be agreed upon with further negotiations once we're back with our army.
-[X] We won't execute any of the hostages who haven't committed obvious crimes until further negotiation (so we can't execute Tyrion, for example, but we can execute Gregor).

There's no reason to set explicit terms on negotiations when Tywin is really the one who is supposed to be doing the negotiating, and they technically can't make any binding agreements without him. Tywin goes last could especially be a dealbreaker. And there are no reasons to set terms for our fealty - we haven't sworn anything yet, so we don't have to disavow ourselves, but explicitly saying in the negotiations we won't swear fealty is basically telling them they need to give up two of the Seven Kingdoms, which no sane ruler would ever do.

It's pretty clear that we can't be allies after what happened. So the best bet's neutrality. And I can't bring myself to make Ned so OOC as to turn on what he just told the masses. Besides, as I said before, we would basically be in the same position Dorne is now: sitting on the sidelines and not doing anything, while everyone knows that, of course, Joffrey doesn't control our kingdoms after everything that happened. He can still save face while we don't declare independence by proclaiming himself king of all of Westeros.

As for the specifics of the ransom exchange...I thought that the GM (and the dice) would deal with that. @Charcolt how specific do you want this?
 

We're just giving her enough rope to hang herself - I'm sure she will believe her chances to win the war are still high enough after Jaime's release, so she won't object too much.

Huh, I thought a broken Lannister army and a divided Crownlands army (which has the least number of men) against the fresh Tyrell army (which in itself has more men than her total might) and the Stormlander army (with possible addition of the Dornish army, seeing how their victory is a given and how much they hate the Lannisters) was a an obvious loss for Cersei, but I guess this is Cersei we're talking about.

@Charcolt, is Ned staying Neutral to the Baratheon v Lannister war even possible? Or will Ned declare for Stannis no matter what?

The first is no doubt favourable, but it just isn't Ned. We'll need to plan accordingly.

In any case, we need to arrest Baelish. Otherwise Littlefinger will find some way to fuck up the whole realm, particularly the Starks.
And we definitely CANNOT release Tywin back to the Lannisters. I'm seriously afraid of what that man can do especially after we so completely humiliated him.
 
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We shouldn't be negotiating for any larger positions in the war right now.

[X] Plan CM 1.0
 
I'm surprised no one is asking for Baelish, since he is technically under "crown" authority
 
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Isn't Ned like the Hand of the King ?

Joffrey isn't the King, we proved that, so how can he remove the Hand appointed by Robert. I think our plans should take that into account. Ned should be the top dawg of King's Landing now.

@Charcolt , how many people in the city would follow Ned, now that Joffrey is proven to be a incest spawn ?
 
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Isn't Ned like the Hand of the King ? Joffrey isn't the King, we proved that, so how can he remove the Hand appointed by Robert. I think our plans should take that into account. Ned should be the top dawg of King's Landing now.

@Charcolt , how many people in the city would follow Ned, now that Joffrey is proven to be a incest spawn ?

I do remember him being regent yes, problem is everyone with a sword is a subordinate of the Queen in KL
 
Isn't Ned like the Hand of the King ? Joffrey isn't the King, we proved that, so how can he remove the Hand appointed by Robert. I think our plans should take that into account. Ned should be the top dawg of King's Landing now.

@Charcolt , how many people in the city would follow Ned, now that Joffrey is proven to be a incest spawn ?
That doesn't mean shit because all the armed men in KL are either Lannister men, or Goldcloaks, which are in the Lannisters' pocket.
 
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Why do we care about any long term peace, we know that the lannisters are going to get screwed by one if the brothers of the king soon, so shouldn't we just focus on getting our hostages and property back plus as much gold as we can and then try to stay out of the rest of the war so our armies remain in tact?
 
I do remember him being regent yes, problem is everyone with a sword is a subordinate of the Queen in KL
Lannister lackeys who now can't claim that they were just following "orders". We just proved that Joffrey is an usurper of the Iron Throne. A lot of the same lackeys should balk at going against the Hand of the King now. Plus Robb is coming with an army, it should be enough to get people to switch sides.
 
Why do we care about any long term peace, we know that the lannisters are going to get screwed by one if the brothers of the king soon, so shouldn't we just focus on getting our hostages and property back plus as much gold as we can and then try to stay out of the rest of the war so our armies remain in tact?
Because the HOUNOURABLE Ned Stark will probably declare for Stannis, which means fighting for him against the Reach and Stormlander armies, then later the Lannisters again.
 
Huh, I thought a broken Lannister army and a divided Crownlands army (which has the least number of men) against the fresh Tyrell army (which in itself has more men than her total might) and the Stormlander army (with possible addition of the Dornish army, seeing how their victory is a given and how much they hate the Lannisters) was a an obvious loss for Cersei, but I guess this is Cersei we're talking about.

@Charcolt, is Ned staying Neutral to the Baratheon v Lannister war even possible? Or will Ned declare for Stannis no matter what?

The first is no doubt favourable, but it just isn't Ned. We'll need to plan accordingly.

In any case, we need to arrest Baelish. Otherwise Littlefinger will find some way to fuck up the whole realm, particularly the Starks.
And we definitely CANNOT release Tywin back to the Lannisters. I'm seriously afraid of what that man can do especially after we so completely humiliated him.

Let's be realistic: sure, neutrality in the long run isn't possible. But Ned can be pragmatic, if it's about his family. And this situation, ultimately, is about getting him and Sansa and his remaining men -- if there are some -- out of KL.

As for Stannis...one could argue that Stannis didn't fulfill his side of the feudal contract. He's sitting on his ass, didn't do anything to contact Robb or the North, didn't demand Ned to be released -- in short, didn't do anything that he's obligated to do as Ned's king. And if he didn't do that, why should he be Ned's king?
 
Let's be realistic: sure, neutrality in the long run isn't possible. But Ned can be pragmatic, if it's about his family. And this situation, ultimately, is about getting him and Sansa and his remaining men -- if there are some -- out of KL.

As for Stannis...one could argue that Stannis didn't fulfill his side of the feudal contract. He's sitting on his ass, didn't do anything to contact Robb or the North, didn't demand Ned to be released -- in short, didn't do anything that he's obligated to do as Ned's king. And if he didn't do that, why should he be Ned's king?
Because Ned is HONOURABLE to the point of stupidity, I still feel the need to ask the GM.
Edit: He could just as well take it as his duty to support the rightful King. Remember in the era of the Mad King, there were several loyalists of a King that had killed a Warden and his heir and was demanding the head of a LP and a Warden, when they had commited no crimes. Stannis is basically saintly by comparison.
 
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Honestly there is no reason not to swear to Stannis or Renly for that matter, all that we should care about is preventing as much damage as possible to our vassals and our army (and ideally the riverlands) and maybe try to get as much money out of the lanisters as possible. All of this would then set us up in the optimal position for increasing the prosperity of the north in the aftermath of this war.
 
If Ned were honorable to the point of stupidity, he'd never taken in Jon as his bastard. Honor is important to Ned, almost above everything else. The lives of his family? Are more important to him than honor. Canon showed that.
But that was when it was the only way to protect the lives of his children. Here, he could do a simple prisoner exchange with some payment as weregild, and still support Stannis. There is no need for Ned to sacrifice either his children or his honour, so why would he choose to not do what he feels he is obligated to?
 
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