Ned can't command Robb to do anything right now. He's still in enemy territory with no ability to communicate with the outside world.
Winter is Coming: House Stark Quest
- Thread starter Charcolt
- Start date
Ned can't command Robb to do anything right now. He's still in enemy territory with no ability to communicate with the outside world.
Oh, Cersei certainly thinks that she can win. And why not? This is Cersei.
I say if we end up with something like this in the end, then we can be happy:
• Ned and Sansa along with Ice are exchanged for Jaime.
• Robb's army will withdraw to the Riverlands, thus giving the Lannisters the chance to go up against the Baratheons.
• If after a year there are no Lannister attacks, then year by year prisoners can be ransomed back from the North, with Tywin going last.
• As long as Cersei's children are on the throne -- now known to the world as bastards -- the North will not bow to them; but neither will the North be the Lannisters' enemy.
This way we give her hope. She loves Jaime, so that hopefully should be enough for the exchange. With Robb's army withdrawing, the Lannisters can concentrate on the Baratheons. We could never be allies after what happened, but neutrality is something that is possible. After all, neither Baratheon brother did anything to help free Ned or help the Starks at all. Not even a message. If Renly manages to kill Stannis, then it would be seen as a power grab -- which it is -- and the North would have reason to declare independence. If Stannis, by some miracle wins, we can still support him or not; he didn't help the North either and so didn't do something any true king would do for their vassal. And if the Lannisters win then we have some time to fortify our territories.
So, my suggestion: let the Baratheons and Lannisters rip each other to pieces and mop up what's left, if necessary.
Anything that can be negotiated in addition to the demands mentioned above is a bonus.
I say if we end up with something like this in the end, then we can be happy:
• Ned and Sansa along with Ice are exchanged for Jaime.
• Robb's army will withdraw to the Riverlands, thus giving the Lannisters the chance to go up against the Baratheons.
• If after a year there are no Lannister attacks, then year by year prisoners can be ransomed back from the North, with Tywin going last.
• As long as Cersei's children are on the throne -- now known to the world as bastards -- the North will not bow to them; but neither will the North be the Lannisters' enemy.
This way we give her hope. She loves Jaime, so that hopefully should be enough for the exchange. With Robb's army withdrawing, the Lannisters can concentrate on the Baratheons. We could never be allies after what happened, but neutrality is something that is possible. After all, neither Baratheon brother did anything to help free Ned or help the Starks at all. Not even a message. If Renly manages to kill Stannis, then it would be seen as a power grab -- which it is -- and the North would have reason to declare independence. If Stannis, by some miracle wins, we can still support him or not; he didn't help the North either and so didn't do something any true king would do for their vassal. And if the Lannisters win then we have some time to fortify our territories.
So, my suggestion: let the Baratheons and Lannisters rip each other to pieces and mop up what's left, if necessary.
Anything that can be negotiated in addition to the demands mentioned above is a bonus.
- Location
- Europe
Where does it say the Lannisters aren't out for the count yet? Please, show me the "cards" they have left to play.
No, it's more that she offers her children to us as well as the Lord Paramountship of the Reach and the Stormlands. That she's a whore has nothing to do with it.
What Tywin and Cersei thinks about Tyrion doesn't matter after he becomes Lord Paramount of the Westerlands.
@Charcolt Is this viable?
[X] Plan CM 1.0
-[] Jaime will be exchanged for Ned, Sansa and any of his men still imprisoned by Lannisters. The other noble hostages stay with the army as 'insurance'. Tyrion and Kevan's sons' release can be negotiated if Cersei makes a counter-offer.
-[] The North and Riverlands will also receive fair compensation directly from Casterly Rock's coffers for the damage caused and men lost.
-[] You will also be given back Ice, that book 'proving' Cersei's incest and Littlefinger's head right the hell now.
-[] The Northern host will not march on King's Landing.
[X] Plan CM 1.0
-[] Jaime will be exchanged for Ned, Sansa and any of his men still imprisoned by Lannisters. The other noble hostages stay with the army as 'insurance'. Tyrion and Kevan's sons' release can be negotiated if Cersei makes a counter-offer.
-[] The North and Riverlands will also receive fair compensation directly from Casterly Rock's coffers for the damage caused and men lost.
-[] You will also be given back Ice, that book 'proving' Cersei's incest and Littlefinger's head right the hell now.
-[] The Northern host will not march on King's Landing.
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- Location
- United States
The difficulty is negotiating with Stannis. He is very stubborn and won't be grateful for our support because he will see it as us just doing our duty. Honestly, it might be easier to have Robb marry Myrcella and help the Lannisters hold onto the throne. The other option is negotiating with Renly, but he has a tendency to get assassinated.
NúmenoreanNazgûl
Witch-King
- Location
- Minas Morgul
Oh, right. Added.
She's not gonna take that. She'll rather just kill Ned and flee KL, possibly taking Sansa hostage.
[X] Plan Nazgul
-[X] Ned, Sansa and Ice will be returned to Robb unharmed.
-[X] "Baelish will be arrested and given to me to face trial for conspiring against the crown."
-[X] "Tywin and Gregor are to be sent to Dorne. You will flee to Essos with your children and a thousand gold dragons, to be taken back from Lannister vaults later. I mean, even if we leave you here in King's Landing, the Stormlander, Reach, and possibly the Dornish army - now that the defeat of the Lannisters is certain - will come to crush you. Tyrion will be released and made Lord of the Westerlands and rest of the PoW will also be released. Jaime can go to the Night's Watch if he confesses to fathering your kids, which will automatically remove them from any line of succession."
-[X]When she asks how she can trust us: "Need I remind you that I am a man of my word, and also don't want your children to suffer for your sins."
-[X]Add whatever monetary/land/mining deals are appropriate for repaying the damage their pillaging cost, and then a fuckton more, to be paid to the Riverlanders and the Starks
On top of that, Cersei still has the power to kill us and run.
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- Location
- Cardassia Prime
Ned knows Mycerella is a product of incest, he'd never allow it.
Cersei will never agree to that. She'd rather die then see Tyrion made Lord of Casterly Rock as well as being exiled and never see her father or brother again.
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- Location
- France Nîmes
WE HAVE NO KING
where was the baratheon our sworn liege when the stark line was in danger
fighting over the kingdom while we bleed to save it
well no more
-[] Tyrion, Jaime and Kevan's sons will be exchanged for Ned, Sansa and any of his men still imprisoned by Lannisters. The other noble hostages stay with the army as 'insurance'.
-[] The North and Riverlands will also receive fair compensation directly from Casterly Rock's coffers for the damage caused and men lost.
-[] You will also be given back Ice, that book 'proving' Cersei's incest and Littlefinger's head right the hell now.
-[] The Northern host will withdraw from King's Landing, but it will still wage war against House Lannister.
- Location
- USA
You are backing her into a corner and if you do she just may go mad king and kill everyone. None of this forcing her to flee or bringing up the brothers. That will make her desperate and even more irrational
- Location
- Europe
Which does not make one bit of difference after we march on King's Landing and murder all the fucking Lannister spawn we can find as well as those we've captured.
- Location
- Brazil
[] Plan Get Gold
- In exchange for Ned, Sansa and Ice, we will free one of Kevin's sons and Jaime Lannister. Ransoms will be accepted for other captured nobles.
- Reparations. Basically a good amount of gold to distribute to Northern Lords for raising their levies and the Riverlanders who lost their shit. Not too greedy. Some for us, but no extortionate insane amount (like half of all gold Casterly Rock has).
- Joffrey goes to the Wall. No buts or ifs. We gonna draw on Ned's knowledge for justification.
- We take Myrcella and Cersei as hostages/guests. Cersei for sex slave. Myrcella we can betroth, dunno. Our second son would rule Westerlands maybe? Of a lover is she's older and wants it.
- Tommen to Faith but Cersei can visit him in Winterfell where's he gonna a be a hostage I mean apprentice of Septon.
- Lannisters fully abidicate the Throne. Leave it to whoever.
- In exchange for Ned, Sansa and Ice, we will free one of Kevin's sons and Jaime Lannister. Ransoms will be accepted for other captured nobles.
- Reparations. Basically a good amount of gold to distribute to Northern Lords for raising their levies and the Riverlanders who lost their shit. Not too greedy. Some for us, but no extortionate insane amount (like half of all gold Casterly Rock has).
- Joffrey goes to the Wall. No buts or ifs. We gonna draw on Ned's knowledge for justification.
- We take Myrcella and Cersei as hostages/guests. Cersei for sex slave. Myrcella we can betroth, dunno. Our second son would rule Westerlands maybe? Of a lover is she's older and wants it.
- Tommen to Faith but Cersei can visit him in Winterfell where's he gonna a be a hostage I mean apprentice of Septon.
- Lannisters fully abidicate the Throne. Leave it to whoever.
- Location
- USA
Cersei was prepared to kill the court, her children and herself before surrendering to Stannis in canon.
And that was when she couldn't delude herself into thinking reinforcements were just a bit away.
- Location
- Cardassia Prime
What the genuine fuck dude.
- Location
- USA
My big problem with plan cm 1.0 is mentioning we will continue the war. That can drive her into a corner. Right now I think we need to focus on getting all of our assets released from kings landing and with the Army at which point we can assess how to proceed based on the actions of the Bratheon brothers
With the points made above kept in mind, here it is (feel free to make adjustments):
[X] Plan Neutrality
-[X] Ned, Sansa, Ice and any still living men of our household are exchanged for Jaime and Kevan's sons.
-[X] Robb's army will withdraw to the Riverlands, thus giving the Lannisters a chance to deal with the Baratheons.
-[X] If, after a year, no Lannister attacks happen upon our territories, then Lannister men can be ransomed back. Tywin goes last.
-[X] Somewhat high but bearable reparations for all the losses.
-[X] As long as Cersei's line are on the throne, the North and all territories under its rule don't acknowledge the King of the Iron Throne as their sovereign.
Thoughts?
[X] Plan Neutrality
-[X] Ned, Sansa, Ice and any still living men of our household are exchanged for Jaime and Kevan's sons.
-[X] Robb's army will withdraw to the Riverlands, thus giving the Lannisters a chance to deal with the Baratheons.
-[X] If, after a year, no Lannister attacks happen upon our territories, then Lannister men can be ransomed back. Tywin goes last.
-[X] Somewhat high but bearable reparations for all the losses.
-[X] As long as Cersei's line are on the throne, the North and all territories under its rule don't acknowledge the King of the Iron Throne as their sovereign.
Thoughts?
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- Location
- United States
Do we know that though? Ned obviously finds the act of incest distasteful, but he acknowledges that the children are innocent and doesn't think there's anything wrong with them (other than Joffrey). Keep in mind the Stark family tree has lots of intermarriage between cousins and the like. As long as Joffrey stands down and Tommen becomes king instead, I don't see what the problem is. Sure, Ned is honorable. But I think he can see that ending the war quickly is best for the kingdom as a whole. He also knows enough about Stannis that while he might prefer to side with him, those negotiations would be very difficult and would prolong the war significantly. His original plan was to deal with the Lannisters and get Stannis installed with minimal bloodshed.
NúmenoreanNazgûl
Witch-King
- Location
- Minas Morgul
The point is to back her into a corner, while also making it seem better to take our deal rather than not. And GM has said she will haggle a little and we'll be given the chance to accept whatever counteroffer is.
- Location
- Europe
Because she knew Stannis would kill her and her children.
Charcolt
Comic Fan
Sure. Pushing too hard risks compromising the negotiations. The Lannisters still have Ned, Sansa, and all the remaining strength of the Rock (which isn't as much, but money can still sway men and hire sellswords if they're willing to tap into their emergency funds). You could sack the city but that's risky and could cost you (if say the Lannister host arrives, joins with the Crownlanders, and pins you against the walls). They're much more amenable to a plan that essentially says "swap hostages, we'll pay you off, and then ceasefire for X months" even though they know it'll mean fighting you again in the future.
That's not to say you can't push hard though! Just that they're not all guaranteed to like it or comply.
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