Ashes Scatter (RWBY/CKII, After the End)

Changeofheart said:

[] Plan Put Out The Fire

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FYI, this isn't voting for it yet. I left mine blank as a plan suggested but technically not voted for yet in hopes of spurring discussion and concrit.

I did throw in a couple actions and thrusts that were not strictly talked about, plus some that are probably still viewed as contentious, so let's work together and figure this thing out.

So, 8 to one odds that the attempt to seize our Spymaster ends up with him being nowhere to be found, because he has informants among our few loyalists who'll give him the heads up, and he'll vanish? Possibly sabotaging as much of our stuff as he can on the way out.

Alectai said:

So, 8 to one odds that the attempt to seize our Spymaster ends up with him being nowhere to be found, because he has informants among our few loyalists who'll give him the heads up, and he'll vanish? Possibly sabotaging as much of our stuff as he can on the way out.

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I'm getting flashbacks...

Alectai said:

So, 8 to one odds that the attempt to seize our Spymaster ends up with him being nowhere to be found, because he has informants among our few loyalists who'll give him the heads up, and he'll vanish? Possibly sabotaging as much of our stuff as he can on the way out.

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Well, okay, that speculation is great and all, but that's not actually a useful statement. What do you want me to do with that? You yourself even said that he needs to be killed.

I can specify to have it be only Pantakon+Sophocles only making the arrest, meaning it should be as contained as possible, instead of Pantakon needing to roust a squad that might have an informer in it, if we want to go full paranoid at the possible expense of effectiveness.

Spectrum said:

Well, okay, that speculation is great and all, but that's not actually a useful statement. What do you want me to do with that? You yourself even said that he needs to be killed.

I can specify to have it be only Pantakon+Sophocles only making the arrest, meaning it should be as contained as possible, instead of Pantakon needing to roust a squad that might have an informer in it, if we want to go full paranoid at the possible expense of effectiveness.

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I agree, it's just...

Well, a single -1 malus probably shouldn't lead to "Your spymaster is both highly competent, and loathes you, and everyone else ranges from being ambivalent to wishing you were dead too".

Like, even in CK2, a Bastard is a malus definitely, but it's not a malus to the point where everyone starts frothing at the mouth and trying to destroy you at all costs like it seems to be here. (Though admittedly, finding out that the religion they picked led to "And all of your neighbours are of another one" was also a bit of a moment)

Alectai said:

I agree, it's just...

Well, a single -1 malus probably shouldn't lead to "Your spymaster is both highly competent, and loathes you, and everyone else ranges from being ambivalent to wishing you were dead too".

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I remain as yet unconvinced that Bastard actually somehow ended up being equal to Ugly in trait value given how things have ended up.

Spectrum said:

I remain as yet unconvinced that Bastard actually somehow ended up being equal to Ugly in trait value given how things have ended up.

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Hah, yeah.

Basically, what it looks like is that this quest is Nightmare Mode, but it was never actually explained to be that way from the start.

Alectai said:

Hah, yeah.

Basically, what it looks like is that this quest is Nightmare Mode, but it was never actually explained to be that way from the start.

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Eh, it was, it's just buried in the primer that not many people read. My gripe here is about trait value vs how Powerofmind seemed to say he rebalanced things this time. Not sure if it's just inverse shit rolls compounding things (ie actually rolling good stats on him and Atlas) or what.

Either way, it's only a half a turn in, it's early days yet, still entirely possible to turn this around if we do the right things.

edit:

Powerofmind said:

• I am the Quest Master. I am not kind, and neither is the Age of Grimm. This is a CKII quest very much in the spirit of the original game, now with hordes of eldritch abominations waiting to gnaw your face off. Well, aside from the Karlings.

• It will not be easy. Unlike several other CKII Quests, you don't get "chances of success" for actions. You don't get saving throws or re-rolls. In the Age of Grimm, you're prey, and the game systems reflect that.

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Honestly, everything is pretty generally fine if you deal with the few internal fires Bastard caused. Sure, you were always going to have pissy Atlas, but Bastard exacerbated it. You were always going to have your questionably helpful father (now step-father, making it worse). Most of your vassals and courtiers would still have been ambivalent to your rule, because of Atlas' constant pressuring.

Powerofmind said:

Honestly, everything is pretty generally fine if you deal with the few internal fires Bastard caused. Sure, you were always going to have pissy Atlas, but Bastard exacerbated it. You were always going to have your questionably helpful father (now step-father, making it worse). Most of your vassals and courtiers would still have been ambivalent to your rule, because of Atlas' constant pressuring.

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Would Atlas have been the heir and the game continued with him if Bastard wasn't picked and Megara tripped and fell or was that still a game over?

And why would would our father been questionably helpful even without Bastard, he just would always have favored Atlas no matter what?

Spectrum said:

Would Atlas have been the heir and the game continued with him if Bastard wasn't picked and Megara tripped and fell or was that still a game over?

And why would would our father been questionably helpful even without Bastard, he just would always have favored Atlas no matter what?

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You'd have been okay if Atlas tried to kill you, you'd play Atlas instead.

Yep, he'd always liked Atlas better. Probably had something to do with him being a good little boy who always did what daddy said.

Spectrum said:

[] Plan Put Out The Fire
-[X] Megara - Work with the Head Teller to try and publicly demonstrate Megara's piousness and worth as a ruler. After Ciskophis' death, make sure the funeral is public and suitable to express and focus on remorse, unity, and reconciliation in these trying times.
-[X] Chancellor - Have her mediate on your behalf with Kalinas to try and improve that relationship. Also try and help bring Aristos's opinion around and counter Ciskophis's previous words.
-[X] Steward - Check with Dephis that there's no economic unrest in the Estos District either
-[X] Captain of the Guard - "Arrest" Ciskophis Mora but make it privately clear he's to be killed resisting arrest. Afterwards, interrogate Atlas, begin backtracing evidence from both Atlas and Ciskophis to try and uncover more plot members.
-[X] Head Teller - Trace down where tellers are taking religious direction from and begin countering those efforts.
-[X] Marshal - Suppress Revolts and otherwise maintain public order
-[X] Spymaster - "Arrested"
-[X] Huntsman Superior - Assist with the "Arrest" of Ciskophis Mora. Afterwards, continue hunting Grimm and strengthening public order.

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Hmm, can we actually have our Huntsman Superior take part in "arresting" Ciskophis? @Powerofmind

Icipall said:

Hmm, can we actually have our Huntsman Superior take part in "arresting" Ciskophis? @Powerofmind

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You can expand the duties of the council during an emergency. If that means having the marshal spy, or the huntsman assassinate, so be it.

I've made the following two edits to my vote as presented:

-[X] Steward - Check with Dephis that there's no economic unrest in the Estos District either, otherwise continue administrating.
-[X] Captain of the Guard - "Arrest" Ciskophis Mora but make it privately clear he's to be killed resisting arrest. Afterwards, interrogate Atlas, begin backtracing evidence from both Atlas and Ciskophis to try and uncover more plot members.
--[X] If there is any hesitation, explain the necessary reasoning that he is at the very least negligent and potentially culpable in the assassination attempts. Unfortunately, even if he is/was Megara's father, the spymaster simply cannot be fired knowing everything he knows, nor is there any confidence in actually holding him arrested.

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I believe those two should be self-explanatory.

Well, I guess... no. I probably shouldn't. Ahh, but I'm so greedy. I'll leave it open, for now.

...I don't like comments like that right after I make a vote adjustment. -_- C'mon, don't troll me like that. ;P

Spectrum said:

...I don't like comments like that right after I make a vote adjustment. -_- C'mon, don't troll me like that. ;P

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This is Powerofmind we're talking about. I'm half convinced that after Ciskophis is dealt with he's going to sprung on us that Ciskophis was secretly on our side this whole time and that he actually considers the good of the city over his personal opinions and that he actually doesn't want us dead.

Otherwise, atm I can't come up with anything to add to the plan.

Icipall said:

This is Powerofmind we're talking about. I'm half convinced that after Ciskophis is dealt with he's going to sprung on us that Ciskophis was secretly on our side this whole time and that he actually considers the good of the city over his personal opinions and that he actually doesn't want us dead.

Otherwise, atm I can't come up with anything to add to the plan.

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Bullshit.

One assassination attempt might get past the spymaster and be forgiven if he figures out and closes the security breach. Two in quick succession can't, especially since he's never actually given us any indications he's getting to the bottom of this. At the very least, he needs to be replaced--we'd throw him in prison and throw away the key if there was the slightest chance that he could be held.

It's one thing to be incompetent. It's another thing entirely to be competent and still miss two obvious assassination attempts. The nicest thing he can be accused of is that he's taking the pay that should be spent on our counter-espionage and using it to buy chips instead of pay his subordinates. That's still basically treason given his high standing and influence.

Alectai said:

Bullshit.

One assassination attempt might get past the spymaster and be forgiven if he figures out and closes the security breach. Two in quick succession can't, especially since he's never actually given us any indications he's getting to the bottom of this. At the very least, he needs to be replaced--we'd throw him in prison and throw away the key if there was the slightest chance that he could be held.

It's one thing to be incompetent. It's another thing entirely to be competent and still miss two obvious assassination attempts. The nicest thing he can be accused of is that he's taking the pay that should be spent on our counter-espionage and using it to buy chips instead of pay his subordinates. That's still basically treason given his high standing and influence.

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Wait, shit, I just figured out the downside.

Kinslayer trait.

It's even worse than Bastard.

Basically, he can get away with it because he can control all the information. We can't, so if we actually kill him, he destroys us anyway, because Bastard and Kinslayer stack.

Can't kill him, can't hold him without him escaping, can't let him live or he'll kill us or allow us to be killed.

Basically, we're stuck in a corner right at the start, and we have no genuinely good moves, except maybe throwing him into the oubliette. That's technically not kinslaying!

Alectai said:

Wait, shit, I just figured out the downside.

Kinslayer trait.

It's even worse than Bastard.

Basically, he can get away with it because he can control all the information. We can't, so if we actually kill him, he destroys us anyway.

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Exactly. That's why we've been walking on eggshells in trying to figure out how to deal with Ciskophis and Atlas.

Icipall said:

Exactly. That's why we've been walking on eggshells in trying to figure out how to deal with Ciskophis and Atlas.

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Yeah, I can't say I'm too thrilled at this. It's one thing to start off in a bad situation. It's another thing entirely to start in Check, with half your pieces, and the only viable escape routes may or may not lead you into Checkmate.

Unless we kill him and frame Atlas

Cmd. Frost said:

Unless we kill him and frame Atlas

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Good luck pulling that off.

But yeah, this game basically started with us in Check--we must make a move or concede the game. However, all of the moves available to us arguably worsen our position even if it gets us out of immediate jeopardy, and the pieces we'd normally have to navigate this conundrum are on hand or have an (X) percent chance of our turn being cancelled immediately.

Voting for real. @Cmd. Frost @Changeofheart FYI I edited my plan slightly from the original posting.

[X] Plan Put Out The Fire
-[X] Megara - Work with the Head Teller to try and publicly demonstrate Megara's piousness and worth as a ruler. After Ciskophis' death, make sure the funeral is public and suitable to express and focus on remorse, unity, and reconciliation in these trying times.
-[X] Chancellor - Have her mediate on your behalf with Kalinas to try and improve that relationship. Also try and help bring Aristos's opinion around and counter Ciskophis's previous words.
-[X] Steward - Check with Dephis that there's no economic unrest in the Estos District either, otherwise continue administrating.
-[X] Captain of the Guard - "Arrest" Ciskophis Mora but make it privately clear he's to be killed resisting arrest. Afterwards, interrogate Atlas, begin backtracing evidence from both Atlas and Ciskophis to try and uncover more plot members.
--[X] If there is any hesitation, explain the necessary reasoning that he is at the very least negligent and potentially culpable in the assassination attempts. Unfortunately, even if he is/was Megara's father, the spymaster simply cannot be fired knowing everything he knows, nor is there any confidence in actually holding him arrested.
-[X] Head Teller - Trace down where tellers are taking religious direction from and begin countering those efforts.
-[X] Marshal - Suppress Revolts and otherwise maintain public order
-[X] Spymaster - "Arrested"
-[X] Huntsman Superior - Assist with the "Arrest" of Ciskophis Mora. Afterwards, continue hunting Grimm and strengthening public order.

If there are any improvements or glaring problems, please please please speak up soon before Powerofmind decides to lock it...