Remove ads

City Building in Middle-Earth

Reader mode
Remove ads
TA 1990 - TA 1995
  • Threadmarks


    • The city expands massively as work continues, the center renovated into a center for the city administration, wooden walls torn down and stone erected, then another circuit to protect the inner districts. Aside from the usual required growth in the availability of housing and some small shops, the notable events are approval from the Chief to open a woodworker's guild, who have set to work making valuable trinkets from the lebethron logged in Eryn Vorn, as well as transforming the heartwood into magnificently durable and dense planks.

    Aside from that the military district in the outer regions of the city is raising questions as to where it would be best to focus our military abilities. While establishing living quarters would allow the deployment of a fledgling military, using the new area as armories or training grounds would improve the quality of the local militia.

    [ ] Militia cannot be relied on for everything. (Military Size +1)
    [ ] Quality arms and armor are the key to a resilient force. (Quality +1)
    [ ] Training and discipline are more important than equipment. (Discipline +1)

    The efforts to establish a watchful presence are harder than anticipated when many of the newly named rangers are killed in the first year. Angmar has been overthrown, but its forces were scattered and marauding bands of orcs and other ill things come out of the wilderness and attack those who remain. While without central leadership attrition and infighting will push the orcs back to their strongholds in the mountains and hills, it will be decades before the lands are as safe as they were in the waning days of Arnor, before true evil made task of its destruction.

    Scouts going forth into wider Eriador report that aside from small hamlets which barely provide more than a life of subsistence, the only two remaining settlements of any note are Bree in the north and Tharbad at the crossing of the Greyflood, the ancient border between Arnor and Gondor. The loss of trade between Gondor and Arthedain has hit both hard, as have the destructive winters of almost a decade ago, and there is little evidence that they were ever prosperous settlements of the North-Kingdom, now more akin to large towns surrounded by abandoned ruins.

    Fornost Erain, capital of Arthedain, is abandoned. The sack by the forces of Angmar, a year of habitation by orcs, and then the recapture of the city by Gondor has left it in a sorry state. Men in Bree, a hundred miles south, have begun to somewhat derisively call it 'Deadman's Dike'.Of the other settlements of the old kingdom, little more is left to say. Amon Sul is ruined, the great walls cast down by the Witch King. Annuminas is empty of life, the tombs of the kings watching over a silent city. There are none now who will dwell there.

    There are yet those who dwell near, however - the Grey Havens of Lindon, that elvish port that lies at the foot of the Straight Road to Valinor, still swears fealty to Cirdan the Mariner. To the east of the Angle lies Imladris, the Last Lonely House, and the esteemed presence of Elrond Peredhel, brother of Elros. To the north are the Lossoth of Forochel, those wild people who make their home there and whose chieftain now wears the Ring of Barahir as a sign of our friendship and gratitude.

    Alas, Gondor is not as it once was. The fertile province of Calenardhon is abandoned and depopulated, and the first sign of civilization is in Anorien on the approach to Minas Anor. Still, contact with the fellow successors of Elendil will be made easier with the launch of the Númerrámar, a ship that rivals any in the fleet of Gondor, though of course they have many more.

    While it is not suited for trade, it does show that we will be able to increase the quantities we import and export in future. The merchants are willing to buy our wood at an even more favourable price at present, though they have haggled an extortionate going rate for food shipped from Gondor.

    [ ] Buy 2 Food (Market Price+1)
    [ ] Sell 2 Wood (Market Price+1)
    [ ] Sell 1 Hardwood (Market Price)
    [ ] Buy/Sell 2 Stone (Market Price)
    [ ] Buy/Sell 2 Metal (Market Price)


    Ost Falasuin
    Population:     10
    Prosperity: Average
    Prestige: Provincial Town
    Rule of Law: Strong
    Military Strength: Weak
    Defenses: Weak


    Administrative Center
    4 Small Residential Districts
    1 Small Mercantile District
    Military District
    Woodworkers District
    Courts
    Houses of Healing
    Baths
    Guard Barracks
    Docks
    Farms: 2
    4 Residential District (Stone): 8/8
    Total: 10/10
    Income Amount
    Population 5
    Orodsir 1
    Administration 5
    Mercantile 2
    Pasture 1
    Income: 14
    Expenditure Amount
    Militia -2
    Rangers -2
    Expenditure: 4
    Total: 10
    Gold: -3 (Farm), -5 (City Center), -3 (Logging), -5 (Housing), -2 (Woodworkers), -5 (Wall), -5 (Military District), -5 (Housing), -5 (Civic), -2 (Baths), -10 (Boaty)
    Wood: -7 (Harsh Winter), -4 (Winter), -4 (Winter), -4 (Winter), -10 (Boaty), -5 (Winter)
    Stone: -6 (City Center), -4 (Stone Walls), -2 (Housing), -8 (Wall), -2 (Military District), -2 (Housing), -2 (Civic)
    Metal: -2 (Military District)
    Food Amount
    Farm 3
    Farm 3
    Pasture 2
    Fishing 3
    Total: 11/10 Food
    Wood Amount
    Logging Camp 3
    Logging Camp 3
    Logging Camp 3
    Total: +9 Wood
    Stone Amount
    Orodsir 3
    Total: +3 Stone
    Metal Amount
    Orodsir 3
    Total: +3 Metal
    Population: 3
    Town Center
    Farm
    Quarry: +3 Stone
    Mine: +3 Metal
    Size: 0
    Quality: 0
    Discipline: FANCY WALK
    Númerrámar

    Income: 10 Gold
    Treasury: 25 Gold
    Chieftain's Treasury: 15
    Food: +1(1 Growth) (4/11 Growth) [10/10 Stored]
    Wood: 0 [5/10 Stored]
    --Lebethron: 0
    --Hardwood: 1
    Stone: 20
    Metal: 12

    [ ] Tame the Baranduin (-10 Gold, -20 Stone)
    [ ] Bridge the River (-10 Gold, -20 Stone)
    --[ ] Settle the East Bank (-10 Gold, -10 Stone)
    [ ] Build the second circuit (-10 Gold, -16 Stone)
    --[ ] Build the third circuit (-15 Gold, -28 Stone)
    ----[ ] Build the fourth circuit (-30 Gold, -50 Stone)
    [ ] Build Docks (-5 Gold, -4 Stone, +1 Shipbuilding)
    [ ] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
    --[ ] Convert to Stone Housing (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
    [ ] Small Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing, +1 Prestige)
    --[ ] Convert to Noble District (-2 Gold, -1 Housing, +3 Prestige)
    [ ] Small Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Taxes)
    --[ ] Convert to Stone (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Wood Store, +1 Prestige)
    [ ] Small Stone Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Taxes, +1 Prestige)
    [ ] Small Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood)
    --[ ] Convert to Stone (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, + Prestige)
    [ ] Small Military District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, -2 Metal)
    --[ ] Training Grounds (-5 Gold, Increase Quality)
    --[ ] Armories (-5 Gold, Increase Quality)
    --[ ] Living Quarters (-5 Gold, Req. 1 Population)
    ---------------------
    [ ] Farm (-3 Gold, +3 Food)
    [ ] Fishing (-3 Gold, -2 Wood, +3 Food)
    [ ] Pasture (-3 Gold, +2 Food, +1 Income)
    ---------------------
    [ ] Logging Camp (-3 Gold, +3 Wood)
    ---------------------
    [ ] Quarry (-3 Gold, +2 Stone)
    ---------------------
    [ ] Mine (-3 Gold, +2 Metal)
    [ ] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
    [ ] Ciryarámar (Sailing Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
    [ ] Númerrámar (Númenorean Vessel) [Req. 1 Hardwood] (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
    [ ] Ëarturyandë (Floating Fortress) [Req. 5 Hardwood] (-100 Gold, -50 Wood) [Req. 5 Shipbuilding]

    Population is now permanently assigned except when prompted to move them.
    Adhoc vote count started by Sayle on May 5, 2017 at 7:18 AM, finished with 686 posts and 14 votes.
    • [X] Plan Stay the Course
      [x] Militia cannot be relied on for everything. (Military Size +1)
      [x] Small Military District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, -2 Metal)
      --[X] Training Grounds (-5 Gold, Increase Quality)
      [X] Convert District to Stone (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, + Prestige)
      ->[X] Assign New Population (1) to Fishing (-3 Gold, -2 Wood, +3 Food)
      [x] Small Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing, +1 Prestige)
      [X] Export 1 Hardwood (Market Price)
      [x] Militia cannot be relied on for everything. (Military Size +1)
      [x] Small Military District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, -2 Metal)
      --[X] Training Grounds (-5 Gold, Increase Quality)
      [X] Build the Second Circuit Wall (-10 Gold, -16 Stone)
      [X] Convert District to Stone (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, + Prestige)
      --[x] Armories (-5 Gold, Increase Quality)
      ->[X] Assign New Population (1) to Fishing (-3 Gold, -2 Wood, +3 Food)
      [x] Small Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing, +1 Prestige)
      [X] Import 2 Stone (Market Price)
      [X] Export 2 Metal (Market Price)
      [X] Export 1 Hardwood (Market Price)
      [X] Task the Rangers with making safe the main routes connecting Ost Falasuin to Bree and Tharbad. If they request support from the regular military, give it to them.
      [X] Send an embassy by ship to Mitholond, thank them for their aid against the Witch-King and offer tokens of gratitude. Enquire about future trade.
      [X] Send an embassy to Imladris, thank them for their aid against the Witch King, and enquire if they have new tidings of the Enemy. Also inquire about trade, and fostering our sons.
      [X] Send an embassy by ship to the Lossoth, thanking them for their hospitality in our time of need and bearing gifts. Also investigate possible future trade. (-1 Gold)
      [X] Send an embassy and trading mission to Tharbad and Bree.
      [X] Import 2 Food (Market Price +1)
      [X] Export 1 Wood (Market Price +1)
      [x] Militia cannot be relied on for everything. (Military Size +1)
      [x] Farm (-3 Gold, +3 Food)
      [x] Fishing (-3 Gold, -2 Wood, +3 Food)
      [x] Small Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing, +1 Prestige)
      [x] Small Military District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, -2 Metal)
      --[x] Armories (-5 Gold, Increase Quality)
      [x] Militia cannot be relied on for everything. (Military Size +1)
      [X]Year 1: Bree: Travel by ship upriver, disembark near the Brandywine Bridge, and travel overland.
      [X]Year 2: Imladris: Reestablish regular contact with your far kin, possibly with permanent representatives or the possibility of fostering some of your children.
      [X]Year 3: Mithlond: Reestablish regular contact.
      [X]Year 4: The Lossoth. Send gifts of gratitude for their hospitality, as well as diplomats and trade to explore commercial links.
      [X]Year 5: Tharbad: What's a gwan up here.
      [X] Buy 2 Food (Market Price+1): -6 gold/turn
      [X] Sell 1 Wood (Market Price+1): +5 gold/turn
      [X] Sell 1 Hardwood (Market Price): +5 gold/turn
      [X] Buy 2 Stone (Market Price): -6 gold/turn
      [X] Sell 2 Metal (Market Price): +4 gold/turn
      [x] Small Military District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, -2 Metal)
      --[X] Training Grounds (-5 Gold, Increase Quality)
      [X] Tame the Baranduin (-10 Gold, -20 Stone)
      --[x] Armories (-5 Gold, Increase Quality)
      [x] Fishing (-3 Gold, -2 Wood, +3 Food)
      [x] Small Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing, +1 Prestige)
      [X] Logging Camp (-3 Gold, +3 Wood)
      [X] Pasture (-3 Gold, +2 Food, +1 Income)
      [x] Small Military District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, -2 Metal)
      --[X] Training Grounds (-5 Gold, Increase Quality)
      [X] Convert District to Stone (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, + Prestige)
      ->[X] Assign New Population (1) to Fishing (-3 Gold, -2 Wood, +3 Food)
      [x] Small Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing, +1 Prestige)
      [X] Tame the Baranduin (-10 Gold, -20 Stone)
      [X] Export 1 Hardwood (Market Price)
      [x] Small Military District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, -2 Metal)
      --[X] Training Grounds (-5 Gold, Increase Quality)
      [X] Build the Second Circuit Wall (-10 Gold, -16 Stone)
      [X] Convert District to Stone (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, + Prestige)
      --[x] Armories (-5 Gold, Increase Quality)
      ->[X] Assign New Population (1) to Fishing (-3 Gold, -2 Wood, +3 Food)
      [x] Small Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing, +1 Prestige)
      [X] Task the Rangers with making safe the main routes connecting Ost Falasuin to Bree and Tharbad. If they request support from the regular military, give it to them.
      [X] Send an embassy by ship to Mitholond, thank them for their aid against the Witch-King and offer tokens of gratitude. Enquire about future trade.
      [X] Send an embassy to Imladris, thank them for their aid against the Witch King, and enquire if they have new tidings of the Enemy. Also inquire about trade, and fostering our sons.
      [X] Send an embassy by ship to the Lossoth, thanking them for their hospitality in our time of need and bearing gifts. Also investigate possible future trade. (-1 Gold)
      [X] Send an embassy and trading mission to Tharbad and Bree.
      [X] Import 2 Food (Market Price +1)
      [X] Export 1 Wood (Market Price +1)
      [X] Import 2 Stone (Market Price)
      [X] Export 2 Metal (Market Price)
      [X] Export 1 Hardwood (Market Price)
      [X] Five Year Plan: Plan Stay the Course
      [x] Small Military District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, -2 Metal)
      --[X] Training Grounds (-5 Gold, Increase Quality)
      [X] Build the Second Circuit Wall (-10 Gold, -16 Stone)
      [X] Convert District to Stone (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, + Prestige)
      --[x] Armories (-5 Gold, Increase Quality)
      ->[X] Assign New Population (1) to Fishing (-3 Gold, -2 Wood, +3 Food)
      [x] Small Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing, +1 Prestige)
      [X] Task the Rangers with making safe the main routes connecting Ost Falasuin to Bree and Tharbad. If they request support from the regular military, give it to them.
      [X] Send an embassy by ship to Mitholond, thank them for their aid against the Witch-King and offer tokens of gratitude. Enquire about future trade.
      [X] Send an embassy to Imladris, thank them for their aid against the Witch King, and enquire if they have new tidings of the Enemy. Also inquire about trade, and fostering our sons.
      [X] Send an embassy by ship to the Lossoth, thanking them for their hospitality in our time of need and bearing gifts. Also investigate possible future trade. (-1 Gold)
      [X] Send an embassy and trading mission to Tharbad and Bree.
      [X] Import 2 Food (Market Price +1)
      [X] Export 1 Wood (Market Price +1)
      [X] Import 2 Stone (Market Price)
      [X] Export 2 Metal (Market Price)
      [X] Export 1 Hardwood (Market Price)
      [x] Militia cannot be relied on for everything. (Military Size +1)
      [X]Year 1: Bree: Travel by ship upriver, disembark near the Brandywine Bridge, and travel overland.
      [X]Year 2: Imladris: Reestablish regular contact with your far kin, possibly with permanent representatives or the possibility of fostering some of your children.
      [X]Year 3: Mithlond: Reestablish regular contact.
      [X]Year 4: The Lossoth. Send gifts of gratitude for their hospitality, as well as diplomats and trade to explore commercial links.
      [X]Year 5: Tharbad: What's a gwan up here.
      [X] Buy 2 Food (Market Price+1): -6 gold/turn
      [X] Sell 1 Wood (Market Price+1): +5 gold/turn
      [X] Sell 1 Hardwood (Market Price): +5 gold/turn
      [X] Buy 2 Stone (Market Price): -6 gold/turn
      [X] Sell 2 Metal (Market Price): +4 gold/turn
      [X] Tame the Baranduin (-10 Gold, -20 Stone)
      [x] Small Military District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, -2 Metal)
      --[x] Armories (-5 Gold, Increase Quality)
      [X] Convert District to Stone (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
      [x] Fishing (-3 Gold, -2 Wood, +3 Food)
      [x] Small Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing, +1 Prestige)
      --[X] Training Grounds (-5 Gold, Increase Quality)
      [X] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
    Click to expand...
     
    Last edited:
  • Threadmarks
    • Again, it really doesn't make sense why hardened dunedain veterans don't have, at the very least, really high discipline. And it's not like it's been long enough for their panoply they fled with to be gone.
     
    I'm still not sure what you guys hoped to achieve by sequestering 15 gold away in some supposedly untouchable store.
    That's money we can't invest into the economy for no good reason.
    Karugus said:
    Again, it really doesn't make sense why hardened dunedain veterans don't have, at the very least, really high discipline. And it's not like it's been long enough for their panoply they fled with to be gone.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Because Discipline is not an independent thing, but is usually formed as part of a unit.
    And organized military units in the North were shattered during the War.
    Rebuilding disciplined units will take time and effort.
     
    uju32 said:
    Because Discipline is not an independent thing, but is usually formed as part of a unit.
    And organized military units in the North were shattered during the War.
    Rebuilding disciplined units will take time and effort.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Except the foundations for maintaining discipline in a formation are pretty interchangeable, and these Dunedain have been intermittently training and serving in the militia for years- so it's not like they've grown all that rusty or are unfamiliar with the men besides them. There's a reason that even IRL, feudal war veterans were the backbone of a militia, let alone when they're ubermensch with their gear intact.

    I'm not saying we should stomp, but the fact that there's zero evidence of the impact of the careers and martial prowess of a not insignificant amount of our population is just stupid.
     
    [ ] Small Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Taxes)
    --[ ] Convert to Stone (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Wood Store, +1 Prestige)

    [ ] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
    --[ ] Convert to Stone Housing (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)

    [ ] Small Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood)
    --[ ] Convert to Stone (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, + Prestige)

    I haven't really had the time to look into a detailed plan, but at the very least we can/should do this. We can then sell that wood straight away. We also need at least one more source of lebethron to keep hardwood production running every turn rather than every other.
     
    Karugus said:
    Except the foundations for maintaining discipline in a formation are pretty interchangeable, and these Dunedain have been intermittently training and serving in the militia for years- so it's not like they've grown all that rusty or are unfamiliar with the men besides them. There's a reason that even IRL, feudal war veterans were the backbone of a militia, let alone when they're ubermensch with their gear intact.

    I'm not saying we should stomp, but the fact that there's zero evidence of the impact of the careers and martial prowess of a not insignificant amount of our population is just stupid.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    It's been fifteen years, most of them have now been out of the military for that long, and the vast majority of your population are not military veterans.

    pbluekan said:
    I haven't really had the time to look into a detailed plan, but at the very least we can/should do this. We can then sell that wood straight away. We also need at least one more source of lebethron to keep hardwood production running every turn rather than every other.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    You'll just process half quantities, rather than once every two years.

    Also wood store is firewood. You can't sell reclaimed wood.
     
    @Sayle Didn't we already built both Houses of Healing (last threadmark) and Baths (this threadmark)? I am asking because I saw the court listed, but not those two civic districts.
     
    Guys just A thought but could we start expanding to the other side of the river as to me the city centre seems exposed.
     
    Sayle said:
    It's been fifteen years, most of them have now been out of the military for that long, and the vast majority of your population are not military veterans.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Again, a lot of that institutional experience sticks, and it's not like they've at least been partially keeping up to practice with militia drills. Neither the equipment, institutional experience, or personal experiences just completely vanishes like that. And 15 years isn't long enough for a lot of the former veterans from being incapable of fighting.

    If you bear witness to the sacking and destruction of the kingdom you served, you don't just stop all martial training. You do drills in the militia to protect your new home, you train your son some so he can make good use of the panoply he'll inherent to do the same, you come together with the other men who fought beside and were trained by professionals and use that to hash out an effective if barebones training regime to ensure the effectiveness of the militia. You don't sit with a thumb up your ass on and off for 15 years having never touched a sword- because if that's the case, then we're too stupid to live.
     
    Karugus said:
    Except the foundations for maintaining discipline in a formation are pretty interchangeable,
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    No they are not.You need to trust in the skill and discipline the man beside you, trust the NCO in charge, and the officers above them.
    That is hardwon on a personal and institutional level, and all of that is GONE. All the institutions that supported Discipline were blown away with Arnor, and we're rebuilding from scratch.

    You can't put men who were strangers to each other suddenly trust in the competence and skill of people they don't know. To obey dubious orders if they do not have the absolute trust that their comrades and the people commanding them know what they're doing.

    If anything, it's harder to enforce discipline on veterans because they know exactly just how badly things can go, as opposed to new recruits.
     
    Last edited:
    uju32 said:
    No they are not.You need to trust in the skill and discipline the man beside you, trust the NCO in charge, and the officers above them.
    That is hardwon on a personal and institutional level, and all of that is GONE. All the institutions that supported Discipline were blown away with Arnor, and we're rebuilding from scratch.

    You can't put men who were strangers to each other suddenly trust in the competence and skill of people they don't know.
    If anything, it's harder to enforce discipline on veterans because they know exactly just how badly things can go, as opposed to new recruits.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Except these men aren't strangers. They fled here together, they fought the wildlings together, they've lived in the same town for 15 years- they know how to march in formation. To form a shield wall, the need to stand ground besides your fellow soldier. All of that they know from both prior training, and field experience. Camaraderie is not some mythical thing that requires a disney training montage to instil.

    The idea that they've completely discarded their training, let alone the idea that they never bothered to train their sons is laughable. The most valuable thing most of these men own is their war panoply, and that's neither something they want their descendants to waste, or particularly want to get rid of in a newly founded city that might be at risk of attack.
     
    Karugus said:
    Except these men aren't strangers.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Yes they are.
    These are the survivors of the two good kingdoms of the North; none of them are formed units.
    Arveduin came here with a core of people, but he's been receiving stragglers and immigrants from other settlements, from the Wildmen we exterminated, and so on.

    Hell, 2 of the 3 Pop that went to form Orvedui were explicitly late comers that straggled in from failed settlements after the harsh winters took their toll.
     
    uju32 said:
    Yes they are.
    These are the survivors of the two good kingdoms of the North; none of them are formed units.
    Arveduin came here with a core of people, but he's been receiving stragglers and immigrants from other settlements, from the Wildmen we exterminated, and so on.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Even if a mere 1 population out of our settlement is veteran soldiers (and it might very well be)- that is more than we could possibly leverage in an actual military. A rough estimate suggests the best medieval europeans could do is 1 fighting man for every 15 adults. Even 1 in 20 would be a fairly impressive ration, and we can almost certainly manage that.

    And again, you are ignoring that these veterans have spent around a decade drilling in militia formations together. A militia isn't simply an adhoc group of 'grab your gear and get a swinging!'. Men practice together for it, they keep their gear maintained in case of need for it, and they ensure their sons are trained if only so that they can enter the militia without embarrassing their fathers.

    There's no excuse for the kind of decay you're suggesting unless we wholeheartedly and deliberately abandoned war making, and we sure as hell did the opposite.
     
    Maybe a granary or something like that to increase our food storage and the same for a warehouse for the other resources ? Um what about fishing to increase our food production now , i mean build more fishing boats or something once or twice?

    waiting for a plan and the + side of adminstrive district was the +5 income per year i think and that we can build the citadel on the other side of the river apparently?

    Building a bridge early is a thing to consider i guess instead of messing with the river if we wanna use our stone ?

    and doing a 2nd small military district is a thought to consider with probably another housing expansion or two and can we expand the resource exctraction at the city we found with extra pop assigned there?

    and probably training grounds are best for the one we have atm?
     
    Last edited:
    Well, I have to say I'm pretty happy with how that went. My planning and projections weren't hugely off, always a challenge over this kind of timescale. We're massively ahead in many areas relative to where we were before, as you can see just by looking at the map. We've taken our first steps back out into a wider world.

    Our treasury and stone stockpiles are healthy enough to allow us to continue an aggressive construction programme. Those skinflint Gondorian merchants are really chiselling us on Food right now, but c'est la vie.

    Sayle said:
    Administrative Center
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    uju32 said:
    Jesus fuck.
    Whose bright idea was this?

    @Sayle
    Can we tear this down and rebuild in the future?
    A Citadel, for example?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Sayle said:
    *glances at @Admiral Skippy
    Well, you can, but that will certainly only be a GM-offered option when defenses become especially relevant.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...



    This was discussed at the time, and there was a broad consensus by the end that even defensively, right now an Administrative Centre and the expanded income it provides are the best option. Feel free to look back over those discussions.
     
    Sayle said:
    Thanks, I hadn't updated that yet.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Are you willing to tell us how Prosperity is calculated? Because, constructing the Houses of Healing (+2) and Baths (+1) seems to only have us brought up from Poor/Average to Average.
    Also how many prestige states are there? We had "provincial town" status two threadmark (1984-87) ago. Since then we have gained 7 prestige without status change.

    These are the Prestige & Prosperity gains I presumed we got:
    [X] Send three population to settle the Blue Mountains (-16 Gold, +3 Stone, +3 Metal, Farm/Quarry/Mine/Housing):-16 gold, +3 Stone, + 3 Metal, +3 Food
    --[X] Empty the mercantile district. -2 Gold/turn
    [X] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
    ----[X] Establish Houses of Healing (-2 Gold, +2 Prosperity)
    --[X] Convert to Stone Housing (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
    Admiral Skippy said:
    Five Year Plan: Outward Growth (V. 1.3)

    Civic Construction
    Year 1
    ->[X] Reassign Population (1) from Small Mercantile District -> Farming (-3 Gold)
    [X] Renovate City Center (-5 Gold, -2 Housing, -6 Stone)
    --[X] Upgrade to Stone Walls (-4 Stone)
    ----[X] Convert to Administrative Center (+5 Taxes)
    Year 2
    ->[X] Assign new Population (1) to Logging Camp (-3 Gold)
    [X] Small Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing, +1 Prestige)
    [X] Establish Woodworker's Quarter (-2 Gold, -2 Taxes, 2 Lebethron Converted to 2 Hardwood per turn)
    Year 3
    [X] Build an Inner Wall (-5 Gold, -8 Stone)
    Year 4
    ->[X] Assign new Population (1) to Small Military District
    [X] Small Military District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, -2 Metal)
    Year 5
    ->[X] Assign new Population (1) to re-open Small Mercantile District ***
    [X] Small Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing, +1 Prestige)
    [X] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige) ***
    ----[X] Establish Baths (-2 Gold, +1 Prosperity, +2 Prestige) ***

    *** (If Population (10) reached in Year 5, as projected.)
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
     
    Karugus said:
    Again, a lot of that institutional experience sticks, and it's not like they've at least been partially keeping up to practice with militia drills. Neither the equipment, institutional experience, or personal experiences just completely vanishes like that. And 15 years isn't long enough for a lot of the former veterans from being incapable of fighting.

    If you bear witness to the sacking and destruction of the kingdom you served, you don't just stop all martial training. You do drills in the militia to protect your new home, you train your son some so he can make good use of the panoply he'll inherent to do the same, you come together with the other men who fought beside and were trained by professionals and use that to hash out an effective if barebones training regime to ensure the effectiveness of the militia. You don't sit with a thumb up your ass on and off for 15 years having never touched a sword- because if that's the case, then we're too stupid to live.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    This is highly debatable, the militia is, by and large, an extra job, so you are not going to drill too much and while the veterans might recoup discipline fastish, it is a perishable quality.

    Now, we need more food sources, farms I am thinking, and Housing AND start to do something to turn our militia into a military (again)

    [x] Militia cannot be relied on for everything. (Military Size +1)

    [x] Farm (-3 Gold, +3 Food)
    [x] Fishing (-3 Gold, -2 Wood, +3 Food)
    [x] Small Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing, +1 Prestige)
    [x] Small Military District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, -2 Metal)
    --[x] Armories (-5 Gold, Increase Quality)

    Total cost: 21 Gold, 2 Wood, 4 Stone

    We are probably going to need to buy wood (and another Foresters wouldn't be a bad idea)
    We could go for a new merchant ship, that should increase the buy/sell quantities and maybe a sailing ship to give us some light warship options (scout?)
    I am not sure what Taming the river means, is it dredging? if so, we might consider it next vote, as it would improve our port...
     
    yeah taming the river is abit vague .
    extra farms/fishing are probably more stuck on need of population i guess to be useful ?
     
    [x] Militia cannot be relied on for everything. (Military Size +1)

    [x] Farm (-3 Gold, +3 Food)
    [x] Fishing (-3 Gold, -2 Wood, +3 Food)
    [x] Small Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing, +1 Prestige)
    [x] Small Military District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, -2 Metal)
    --[x] Armories (-5 Gold, Increase Quality)
     
    uju32 said:
    Yes they are.
    These are the survivors of the two good kingdoms of the North; none of them are formed units.
    Arveduin came here with a core of people, but he's been receiving stragglers and immigrants from other settlements, from the Wildmen we exterminated, and so on.

    Hell, 2 of the 3 Pop that went to form Orvedui were explicitly late comers that straggled in from failed settlements after the harsh winters took their toll.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Karugus said:
    Even if a mere 1 population out of our settlement is veteran soldiers (and it might very well be)- that is more than we could possibly leverage in an actual military. A rough estimate suggests the best medieval europeans could do is 1 fighting man for every 15 adults. Even 1 in 20 would be a fairly impressive ration, and we can almost certainly manage that.

    And again, you are ignoring that these veterans have spent around a decade drilling in militia formations together. A militia isn't simply an adhoc group of 'grab your gear and get a swinging!'. Men practice together for it, they keep their gear maintained in case of need for it, and they ensure their sons are trained if only so that they can enter the militia without embarrassing their fathers.

    There's no excuse for the kind of decay you're suggesting unless we wholeheartedly and deliberately abandoned war making, and we sure as hell did the opposite.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Chaos Blade said:
    This is highly debatable, the militia is, by and large, an extra job, so you are not going to drill too much and while the veterans might recoup discipline fastish, it is a perishable quality.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    In fairness, I think one way of partly resolving this is to remember that of this core of veterans and kingsmen probably went into the Rangers, or have stayed part of the Chieftain's retinue. Which is probably the best place for them. The Chieftain needs a body of hardasses around him, and the Rangers will grow in time to be a vital expeditionary and reconnaissance force. But they're not as easily "on tap" so to speak as the nucleus of our regular "army", which is probably mostly militiamen who were likely only militiamen even before the fall of Arthedain.

    sargentorion said:
    Guys just A thought but could we start expanding to the other side of the river as to me the city centre seems exposed.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Yeah I'd like to do that. Taming the Baraduin will make it easier, according to @Sayle, as it basically involves straightening out the river and giving it stone banks. Although looking at the options it doesn't look like a pre-requisite.

    We have the enviable yet tricky problem, I think, of having a lot of things worth doing, and needing to choose between them. Over five years, assuming we import Stone, we should basically have 40 Stone to play with. Possibly a little more if we mange to build a merchant ship and increase our stone import. Gold probably won't be our bottleneck although it's a concern. The big ticket items we might like to build are:
    [ ] Tame the Baranduin (-10 Gold, -20 Stone)
    [ ] Bridge the River (-10 Gold, -20 Stone)
    --[ ] Settle the East Bank (-10 Gold, -10 Stone)
    [ ] Build the second circuit (-10 Gold, -16 Stone)
    --[ ] Build the third circuit (-15 Gold, -28 Stone)
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    And we have to pick what to build out of these, with a budget of 40 Stone, perhaps a little more. Not to mention that we might want to build a couple of stone districts, so there should be some leeway.

    Something I'm seriously considering at this point is whether it would be economical to straight-up loot stone from Fornost or Annúminas. Countless civilisations have done it to the ruins of previous ones before, and it's even ours in this case, so it's not even really theft.
     
    Reader mode
    You must login or register to reply here.
    Remove ads
    Back
    Top