FieryMatter
Fire and Fiery
- Location
- Beyond the Sunset Sea
The area was turned into grassland and forests haven't grown back due to lack of nutrients + lack of planned attempt to do so.
City Building in Middle-Earth
- Thread starter Sayle
- Start date
-
- Tags
- lotr middle-earth
The area was turned into grassland and forests haven't grown back due to lack of nutrients + lack of planned attempt to do so.
- Location
- Austria
Now I am imagining what if LotR was written by Frank Herbert.
As far as the wild men situation goes, I think this is a teachable moment.
Due to active efforts by the Enemy, and probably some past wrongs on our own part like Numenorean imperialism, we have a poor relationship with these people. There's no inherent reason it has to be this way. They aren't Orcs. Frankly some friendly buffer states would be very useful right now. Even if we eventually do need to use significant force to turn them into client kingdoms at some point in future, escalating with excessive bloodshed isn't the best way to prepare. They could have killed more people with their raiding than they have done, most likely, and they made some kind of decision not to. It's very possible we've been logging in areas they've considered theirs for a long time, so this might not be wholly unprovoked.
[X] Preparing a punitive action would require deferring the construction of a new camp this year, but since most of your workers were survivors of the war with Angmar you should have a qualitative advantage.
--[X] Show your might and attempt to come to some kind of agreement.
Also the fact that our king and probably a few of his closest kinsemen and advisers are literal mindreaders is an advantage best leveraged through diplomacy.
As for economic actions, the bandwagon seems reasonable.
[X] Small Civic District
--[X] Establish Courts (-2 Gold, +1 Prosperity, +1 Guardsmen)
[X] Build Docks (-5 Gold, -4 Stone, Shipbuilding)
[X] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
I'd like to build baths and Houses of Healing as soon as possible though. We're a civilised people, and we need to not let go of that, even in our current circumstances. On a side note, I also question the defensive layout we've chosen. Minas Arnor is great, but we face a very different strategic situation, and we have different geography. Tiered walls with a single fortified gate for each defensive ring are a a great idea when you're a strategic redoubt built into a mountainside. They're a much less good idea when you're trying to be an economic centre as well, and have your back to a bloody river.
@Sayle, at this early stage where we've mostly built in wood, would it be possible to change our defensive layout to a more cellular structure going forward?
That is some real skill man. Were the ones for Foundations of Stone done the same way? I remember those things were ridiculously intricate.
Due to active efforts by the Enemy, and probably some past wrongs on our own part like Numenorean imperialism, we have a poor relationship with these people. There's no inherent reason it has to be this way. They aren't Orcs. Frankly some friendly buffer states would be very useful right now. Even if we eventually do need to use significant force to turn them into client kingdoms at some point in future, escalating with excessive bloodshed isn't the best way to prepare. They could have killed more people with their raiding than they have done, most likely, and they made some kind of decision not to. It's very possible we've been logging in areas they've considered theirs for a long time, so this might not be wholly unprovoked.
[X] Preparing a punitive action would require deferring the construction of a new camp this year, but since most of your workers were survivors of the war with Angmar you should have a qualitative advantage.
--[X] Show your might and attempt to come to some kind of agreement.
Also the fact that our king and probably a few of his closest kinsemen and advisers are literal mindreaders is an advantage best leveraged through diplomacy.
As for economic actions, the bandwagon seems reasonable.
[X] Small Civic District
--[X] Establish Courts (-2 Gold, +1 Prosperity, +1 Guardsmen)
[X] Build Docks (-5 Gold, -4 Stone, Shipbuilding)
[X] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
I'd like to build baths and Houses of Healing as soon as possible though. We're a civilised people, and we need to not let go of that, even in our current circumstances. On a side note, I also question the defensive layout we've chosen. Minas Arnor is great, but we face a very different strategic situation, and we have different geography. Tiered walls with a single fortified gate for each defensive ring are a a great idea when you're a strategic redoubt built into a mountainside. They're a much less good idea when you're trying to be an economic centre as well, and have your back to a bloody river.
@Sayle, at this early stage where we've mostly built in wood, would it be possible to change our defensive layout to a more cellular structure going forward?
That is some real skill man. Were the ones for Foundations of Stone done the same way? I remember those things were ridiculously intricate.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
[X] Preparing a punitive action would require deferring the construction of a new camp this year, but since most of your workers were survivors of the war with Angmar you should have a qualitative advantage.
--[X] Show your might and attempt to come to some kind of agreement.
[X] Small Civic District
--[X] Establish Courts (-2 Gold, +1 Prosperity, +1 Guardsmen)
[X] Build Docks (-5 Gold, -4 Stone, Shipbuilding)
[X] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
--[X] Show your might and attempt to come to some kind of agreement.
[X] Small Civic District
--[X] Establish Courts (-2 Gold, +1 Prosperity, +1 Guardsmen)
[X] Build Docks (-5 Gold, -4 Stone, Shipbuilding)
[X] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
VOTE
[X] Preparing a punitive action would require deferring the construction of a new camp this year, but since most of your workers were survivors of the war with Angmar you should have a qualitative advantage.
--[X] Show your might and attempt to come to some kind of agreement.
[X] Small Civic District
--[X] Establish Courts (-2 Gold, +1 Prosperity, +1 Guardsmen)
[X] Build Docks (-5 Gold, -4 Stone, Shipbuilding)
[X] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
Talk, then fight. Resolve without bloodshed if at all possible, but I'd rather not give up the Lebethorn because the Wildmen got pissy.
Suprised there is no Mine option, but I guess we'll live for the moment.
[X] Preparing a punitive action would require deferring the construction of a new camp this year, but since most of your workers were survivors of the war with Angmar you should have a qualitative advantage.
--[X] Show your might and attempt to come to some kind of agreement.
[X] Small Civic District
--[X] Establish Courts (-2 Gold, +1 Prosperity, +1 Guardsmen)
[X] Build Docks (-5 Gold, -4 Stone, Shipbuilding)
[X] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
Talk, then fight. Resolve without bloodshed if at all possible, but I'd rather not give up the Lebethorn because the Wildmen got pissy.
Suprised there is no Mine option, but I guess we'll live for the moment.
They were. I don't know if any of those are still around, but they were, like, super painful to do. Pixel by pixel. I've learned my lesson and this is being done less like a representation of reality and more like an in-universe map.
As for the defenses, just trust that I'll account for the river. Remember Osgiliath is the same way, so it isn't an unfamiliar challenge for the Dunedain.
Just to point out, the Numenorians/Gondorians/Arnorians are essentially supposed to be Ancient Rome and its successor states.
However, Romans and Greeks are (contrary to popular belief) really not that different to Northern Europeans.
Italians: Italian people - Google Search:
Greeks: Redirect Notice
British (For comparison): Italian people - Google Search:
Really not that different, so the casting of the Lord of the Rings films were good. People like Aragorn in the films also were shown with a slight tan (although whether that was his natural tone or just down to him being a Ranger and thus being out in the sun often is open to debate).
I do agree that the people used (with the possible exception of the actor that played Aragorn) did not meet the description of 'The Fair', though. And I firmly believe the reason they didnt includein the movies Imrahil or anyone from Dol Amroth was pretty much down to the fact they coldnt find anyone fair enough to play them (after all, the people of Tolfalas have both strong Elven and strong Numenorean heritage, and as such as said to be the most skilled, beautiful and physically powerful Gondorians).
Also not quite sure where the writer of that article got the idea Gondor as seen in the films stretched geographicaly from 'Italy to Turkey'. Its more like Italy and Greece, with the 'Turkey' part being Mordor/Harad, which Gondor hadnt ruled over for a significant period by the time of the War of the Ring.
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The Wildmen
So it was in the spring of 1981 of the Third Age Arvedui issued forth from Ost Falasuin in great panoply, for even reduced as they were the Dúnedain remained mighty in force of arms. They set camp at the edge of the forested cape of Eryn Vorn, blew their horns in challenge, and the Wildmen were afraid. Three days they waited, and each morn issued again their challenge with the sound of their horns, which was mighty and shook the leaves atop the trees.
At last the chieftain of those forest dwellers came forth to answer this challenge, and Arvedui rode out to meet him. The Chieftain of the Dúnedain was beheld in splendor, for in him was the might of Númenor yet undiminished and the Elendilmir upon his brow shone cold like steel. The halting westron of the Wildmen seemed uncouth to the ears of the Dúnedain, and many grievances were laid before Arvedui on the encroachment of workers and the felling of trees, of the rapacious greed of Númenor which drove the Wildmen from their great forests that no longer stood, and of the settlement of the Baranduin which they considered theirs to the eastern bank.
Then Arvedui grew angry, for it was the blood of his people who had been spilt for these grievances, and just recompense and the surrender of the timber they had felled he judged necessary for any peace. This he demanded and this the Wildmen refused, and so in his wroth Arvedui laid his hands on the chieftain of the Wildmen and slew him.
Thus the Dúnedain entered Eryn Vorn and there the valor of Old Arnor was shown in full, for in the Dúnedain was the might of Númenor. The streams of Eryn Vorn ran red in the slaughter, and the Wildmen were laid low to a man, and their hidden fastness within the forest was overthrown.
[ ] Victorious they returned to the city with spoils of food and timber, and the children of the House of Haleth were put to work in the fields for the sins of their fathers.
[ ] And from the forest the victors bore out food and timber, and from the scattered tribe they took wives and the young as spoils, for the people of Arthedain had had lost their own.
At last the chieftain of those forest dwellers came forth to answer this challenge, and Arvedui rode out to meet him. The Chieftain of the Dúnedain was beheld in splendor, for in him was the might of Númenor yet undiminished and the Elendilmir upon his brow shone cold like steel. The halting westron of the Wildmen seemed uncouth to the ears of the Dúnedain, and many grievances were laid before Arvedui on the encroachment of workers and the felling of trees, of the rapacious greed of Númenor which drove the Wildmen from their great forests that no longer stood, and of the settlement of the Baranduin which they considered theirs to the eastern bank.
Then Arvedui grew angry, for it was the blood of his people who had been spilt for these grievances, and just recompense and the surrender of the timber they had felled he judged necessary for any peace. This he demanded and this the Wildmen refused, and so in his wroth Arvedui laid his hands on the chieftain of the Wildmen and slew him.
Thus the Dúnedain entered Eryn Vorn and there the valor of Old Arnor was shown in full, for in the Dúnedain was the might of Númenor. The streams of Eryn Vorn ran red in the slaughter, and the Wildmen were laid low to a man, and their hidden fastness within the forest was overthrown.
[ ] Victorious they returned to the city with spoils of food and timber, and the children of the House of Haleth were put to work in the fields for the sins of their fathers.
[ ] And from the forest the victors bore out food and timber, and from the scattered tribe they took wives and the young as spoils, for the people of Arthedain had had lost their own.
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aledeth
The Flesh is Weak
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] And from the forest the victors bore out food and timber, and from the scattered tribe they took wives and the young as spoils, for the people of Arthedain had had lost their own.
Neither are particularly happy, but the first option has both 'sins of the father' which I hate from a moral perspective, and Slave Labor which can lead to shit like the Black Numenorians. At least option two has us kinda adopting those left instead of leaving them to starve.
Neither are particularly happy, but the first option has both 'sins of the father' which I hate from a moral perspective, and Slave Labor which can lead to shit like the Black Numenorians. At least option two has us kinda adopting those left instead of leaving them to starve.
Theunderbolt
"Prepare for trouble..."
- Location
- USoA
[X] And from the forest the victors bore out food and timber, and from the scattered tribe they took wives and the young as spoils, for the people of Arthedain had had lost their own.
Only one half of the woman/children combo are getting adopted, I'd point out. Also it's not really slave labor. Just forced indenture. They still get paid for their crops at market, they just don't get to not farm.
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Pirx
is taken by a fey mood
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] And from the forest the victors bore out food and timber, and from the scattered tribe they took wives and the young as spoils, for the people of Arthedain had had lost their own.
Both are harsh outcomes, but I think the latter one is going to be the least problematic a generation or two down the road. It at least lessens the potential for leading us down the road to a spartan society.
Both are harsh outcomes, but I think the latter one is going to be the least problematic a generation or two down the road. It at least lessens the potential for leading us down the road to a spartan society.
aledeth
The Flesh is Weak
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yea, the carrying off of the women certainly isn't something I'm happy about either. Good job on the writing in the update, very strong Tolkien-ish feel to it.
[X] And from the forest the victors bore out food and timber, and from the scattered tribe they took wives and the young as spoils, for the people of Arthedain had had lost their own.
This would go a good way towards integrating them as a people rather than keeping them distinct and a future threat
This would go a good way towards integrating them as a people rather than keeping them distinct and a future threat
Thats not really how it works. At all.
As an example, sometime in the last 5000 years, vast sections of the Amazon rainforest were cut down by some ancient civilisation that we do not know the name of. The rainforest grew back so thoroughly we wouldnt have even known there were ruins and foundations there if logging hadnt uncovered them enough for helicopter-based surveyors to see. This civilisation was also the same one that left the perfectly spherical balls people find in the South American jungle.
The amazon rainforest does suffer from surface decay due to rainfall after logging.
However it could grow back.
The areas that were deforested in Tolkein lore were still very fertile temperate grasslands and in several cases farmlands with far less rain and far less surface erosion than a rainforest. If they can support crops (which they can) then they can support forests.
And after thousands of years, the deforested sections should be solid forest again. In fact, any evidence of prior logging should be impossible to find.
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[X] And from the forest the victors bore out food and timber, and from the scattered tribe they took wives and the young as spoils, for the people of Arthedain had had lost their own.
Not really happy about the actions of our people. If Gondor, the Elves or, hell, even the Dwarves of the Blue Mountains hear about this they are going to be pretty angry.
I also didnt see 'Genocide' as an option in the previous update either.
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Demetrius
Eating Moon: 63% Completion
You're assuming this stuff works according to modern science, which it doesn't. It's not just some deforestation, it's a scar upon the land inflicted by the hands of Men. You might as well argue that actually, holding an oath to Isildur couldn't really keep the souls of the dead suspended within the mountain until they fulfilled it.
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- Location
- nz
[X] Victorious they returned to the city with spoils of food and timber, and the children of the House of Haleth were put to work in the fields for the sins of their fathers.
Its deforestation, as simple as that. At no point was perma-kill magic used. Just good old axes and saws.
This means the forests should have grown back.
Why? It's wiping out a tribe that attacked you. That's a total non-event. Rohan is going to be doing the same thing to the Dunlendings on a much larger scale for the next hundreds of years.
But we know they didn't. Just how the setting is. Don't ask me to explain it.
Demetrius
Eating Moon: 63% Completion
Again, you are operating under the assumption that Middle Earth works exactly like real life except for when magic is explicitly involved. This is not true. Middle Earth has a lot of mythic/magical stuff that just happens accordingly, it's not our world with magic stapled on top of it.
