We are dropping one of three structures next turn:
A farm: +3 food
A fishing fleet, requires wood: + 3 food
A dock, requires 4 stone: ?? effects on fishing and trade.
Either way, we are looking at a population boost in two turns, even without events.
So yeah, there are good reasons to avoid running short of shelter.
Especially since I THINK shanty towns are especially vulnerable to harsh winters.
We can't drop another production building "next turn". We need more population for that. Which we are currently on track to only get in 8 years. I agree a shanty town would only be a short term solution and I am not saying we shouldn't build a residential district preemptively. I am saying lets wait at least one more year to build one.
Because it possible we won't get the next turn until eight years later?
Makes one wonder what's the point of housing. @Sayle What's the effect of having pop in shanties instead of proper housing?
Anyway, You ask why build residence that would lay empty for years, I ask why stockpile resources and have them languished unused for years?
In 8 years, even with the harshest winter all the time we'll gather at least additional 8 wood. Between stockpiling for a year and building two districts we are left with 5 wood still. That's assuming bad winter for whole 8 years, otherwise we'll have more. Same with gold. 8 years is +16 gold and we already have 29 in treasury. Unless any new option is realy exorbitant we are likely could still afford it.
As you have reached a point where growth is slow and there are few options, from now on time will run automatically until your population grows or an event occurs. Please indicate any buildings you wish to build with your current resources, keeping in mind you may have stockpiled either 5 or 10 wood for emergency supply. If none are available, indicate what you want to see built first, and it will be built automatically when resources become available. At that point time will pause if more options are or become available.
So, by making a longer list of things we want to build we prolong the time passed without a turn. I am saying lets not lock in building a residential district. Lets wait 1 year, during which we build a civic district, and then decide if we want to build a residential district, a dock or something else that was opened up by the civic district.
Edit: @Sayle When does time stop? When all the queued buildings are finished? Or, only when an event/population growth happens?
Might also be worth noting that both The Shire and Bree are still around, and are not that far (The Shire's borders are reachable by boat, Bree is a bit further away). There is also a small settlement at Tharbad but it is no longer the great port it once was.
These settlements may be useful for trading and/or as military allies.
The year begins well with an expansion, a civic district where you will be able to move the increasingly burdensome administrative duties to as well as begin to impose some regulated rule of law. There is some debate as to what will serve the city best - improving the life of its people with the opening of a hospice district or baths, or establishing courts. It is true that your people have suffered hardship and are disciplined, but as the city grows the tendency towards disorder will only increase. When it is pointed out that either public baths or hospices will requires stonework, it simply becomes a matter of if you want to build with stone or open a law-court immediately.
But that discussion is put to the side for the moment as in the fading days of autumn your logging camps are attacked by the tribal Wildmen. Where before simply a show of arms from your militia was sufficient to dissuade them, they seem intent on preventing your logging operations from even entering the vicinity of Eryn Vorn. Whatever the case they arrive in numbers far beyond the ability of your scattered militia to repel, and after few skirmishes your workers and militia both retreat in good order from the site to prevent loss of life. Unfortunately this leaves behind the timber that had been gathered, including the valuable lebethron intended for trade. While some has been carried off, no doubt for the wildmen's own use, the rest was burned along with the rest of the camp. With winter fast approaching a resolution to this attack will have to wait, and fortunately you have enough wood stored to last out a harsh winter even with your shortfall.
That, fortunately, is not necessary. The winter is far from mild but causes no significant problems, and when spring breaks a council is assembled to discuss the answer to this predation on your logging operations.
[ ] Simply establishing a new camp towards the forests of the Blue Mountains would prevent conflict over the vicinity of Eryn Vorn, although you would be giving up the lebethron groves.
[ ] Preparing a punitive action would require deferring the construction of a new camp this year, but since most of your workers were survivors of the war with Angmar you should have a qualitative advantage.
--[ ] Find their settlement and expel them from Eryn Vorn by force of arms.
--[ ] Show your might and attempt to come to some kind of agreement.
---Available Options to Queue---
[ ] Build an Outer Wall (-5 Gold. -4 Wood OR -8 Stone)
[ ] Build Docks (-5 Gold, -4 Stone, Shipbuilding)
[ ] Renovate City Center (-5 Gold, -2 Housing, -6 Stone)
--[ ] Upgrade to Stone Walls (-4 Stone)
----[ ] Convert to Administrative Center (+5 Taxes)
----[ ] Convert to Palace (+5 Prestige)
----[ ] Convert to Citadel (Defensive Bonuses)
[ ] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
--[ ] Convert to Stone Housing (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
----[ ] Convert to Noble District (-2 Gold, -1 Housing, +3 Prestige)
[ ] Small Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Taxes)
--[ ] Establish Woodworker's Quarter (-2 Gold, -2 Taxes, 2 Lebethron Converted to 2 Hardwood per turn)
[ ] Small Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood)
--[ ] Establish Courts (-2 Gold, +1 Prosperity, +1 Guardsmen)
--[ ] Convert to Stone (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone)
----[ ] Establish Houses of Healing (-2 Gold, +2 Prosperity)
----[ ] Establish Baths (-2 Gold, +1 Prosperity, +2 Prestige)
Ost Falasuin
Population: 5 Strength: 1
Districts
City Center
Small Residential District
Small Mercantile District
Small Civic District
Housing
City Center: 2
Farms: 1
Residential District (Wooden): 2/2
Total: 5/5
Adhoc vote count started by Sayle on Apr 24, 2017 at 4:35 AM, finished with 53 posts and 14 votes.
[x] Preparing a punitive action would require deferring the construction of a new camp this year, but since most of your workers were survivors of the war with Angmar you should have a qualitative advantage.
--[x] Show your might and attempt to come to some kind of agreement.
[x] Small Civic District
--[x] Establish Courts (-2 Gold, +1 Prosperity, +1 Guardsmen)
[x] Build Docks (-5 Gold, -4 Stone, Shipbuilding)
[x] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
[x] Simply establishing a new camp towards the forests of the Blue Mountains would prevent conflict over the vicinity of Eryn Vorn, although you would be giving up the lebethron groves. [x] Small Civic District --[x] Establish Courts (-2 Gold, +1 Prosperity, +1 Guardsmen) [x] Build Docks (-5 Gold, -4 Stone, Shipbuilding)
[x] Preparing a punitive action would require deferring the construction of a new camp this year, but since most of your workers were survivors of the war with Angmar you should have a qualitative advantage. --[x] Show your might and attempt to come to some kind of agreement. [x] Small Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood) --[x] Establish Courts (-2 Gold, +1 Prosperity, +1 Guardsmen) [x] Build Docks (-5 Gold, -4 Stone, Shipbuilding) [x] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
[X] Preparing a punitive action would require deferring the construction of a new camp this year, but since most of your workers were survivors of the war with Angmar you should have a qualitative advantage.
--[X] Find their settlement and expel them from Eryn Vorn by force of arms.
[X] Renovate City Center (-5 Gold, -2 Housing, -6 Stone)
--[X] Upgrade to Stone Walls (-4 Stone)
[X] Preparing a punitive action would require deferring the construction of a new camp this year, but since most of your workers were survivors of the war with Angmar you should have a qualitative advantage.
--[X] Find their settlement and expel them from Eryn Vorn by force of arms.
[X] Preparing a punitive action would require deferring the construction of a new camp this year, but since most of your workers were survivors of the war with Angmar you should have a qualitative advantage.
--[X] Find their settlement and expel them from Eryn Vorn by force of arms.
[X] Renovate City Center (-5 Gold, -2 Housing, -6 Stone)
--[X] Upgrade to Stone Walls (-4 Stone)
Thought for the Day: Screw diplomacy. Let's fuck up those Wildmen.
Seriously, I get that we're newcomers. But it's not like we've been stealing any land they were actually noticeably using for anything, and they've been nothing but mindlessly aggressive so far.
[X] Preparing a punitive action would require deferring the construction of a new camp this year, but since most of your workers were survivors of the war with Angmar you should have a qualitative advantage.
--[X] Find their settlement and expel them from Eryn Vorn by force of arms.
I agree with the sentiment, but that being said, I do not think military conflict with the Wildmen is in our interest at this time. Simply put, we might lose, and that's bad. Let's give ground for now and simply get our timber from elsewhere. We have enough gold to import a bunch of weapons and armor from Gondor.
Do that. It's going to be expensive, but it should be a worthwhile investment. And then we'll settle accounts.
[x] Simply establishing a new camp towards the forests of the Blue Mountains would prevent conflict over the vicinity of Eryn Vorn, although you would be giving up the lebethron groves.
[x] Small Civic District
--[x] Establish Courts (-2 Gold, +1 Prosperity, +1 Guardsmen)
[x] Build Docks (-5 Gold, -4 Stone, Shipbuilding)
While I think we could win in this fight i think we would have a better outcome if we tried diplomatically solving this issue.
*Edit-If that dosnt work we could bash there skulls in while looking good to everyone else since they would view us as the "civilized People just protecting there land and people"
Also just a question what is the whole middle earths opinion on woman fighting cus i realy dont want to waste half our population on cooking and doing laundry.
Can we import arms and armor from Gondor? Doesn't need to be anything special, merely good enough to reliably kick Wildman ass. What would it take to make arms and armor ourselves?
While I think we could win in this fight i think we would have a better outcome if we tried diplomatically solving this issue.
*Edit-If that dosnt work we could bash there skulls in while looking good to everyone else since they would view us as the "civilized People just protecting there land and people"
I see two potential options for dealing with the wildmen issue:
Make peace, establish trade, peacefully coexist and then probably assimilate them over a generation or three.
Raise a small army. Locate their settlements. Make a habit of raiding their food stocks each year before winter until they move away from our city to avoid starvation.
After they unprovoked attacks on us, my kneejerk reaction is option 2, but on second thought option 1 is probably preferable. I suppose we should at least make one honest attempt to make peace while we prepare for a punitive campaign if diplomacy should fail.
Can we import arms and armor from Gondor? Doesn't need to be anything special, just enough to reliably kick those Wildmen's asses. What would it take to make arms and armor ourselves?
The thing is armor wouldn't help too much if they know guerilla warfare or just plain old traps.
Im really starting to regret not reading the books since i have very little knowledge on this setting.
[x] Simply establishing a new camp towards the forests of the Blue Mountains would prevent conflict over the vicinity of Eryn Vorn, although you would be giving up the lebethron groves.
[x] Small Civic District
--[x] Establish Courts (-2 Gold, +1 Prosperity, +1 Guardsmen)
[x] Build Docks (-5 Gold, -4 Stone, Shipbuilding)
As much as I want to burn them to the ground, we don't even know how many of them there are. They could outnumber us 10 to 1 for all we know. Just go elsewhere for now and build up more forces.
Build docks = more trade = more goods and weapons...
Yeah, no. Armor works. Armor works really well. And it works even better if your enemy has no institutionalized military experience whatsoever.
I'm not 100% sure what kind of "wildmen" we're dealing with here, but assuming what I imagine is more or less what is (small villages of essentially bronze-age subsistence agriculturalists), simply equipping some well-organized, well-trained soldiers (which we have, due to having a large number of veterans in our population) with helmet, shield and gambeson should be enough to let us raid them with near-impunity.
That being said, we should probably check:
@Sayle
What kind of "wildmen" are we dealing with here in terms of technology level, numbers and organization? Settled or nomadic?
--[ ] Establish Courts (-2 Gold, +1 Prosperity, +1 Guardsmen)
Do we have to pay for the civic district again or can just build the courts now?
I am still undecided about the wildmen vote, but here is what I am proposing for the building queue: [ ] Small Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood)
--[ ] Establish Courts (-2 Gold, +1 Prosperity, +1 Guardsmen)
[ ] Build Docks (-5 Gold, -4 Stone, Shipbuilding)
[ ] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
Can we import arms and armor from Gondor? Doesn't need to be anything special, merely good enough to reliably kick Wildman ass. What would it take to make arms and armor ourselves?
Any new population we would get right now would build a shanty town before we can make them farmers. Demolishing these shanty towns would cost resources.
You start to get negative events, it'll cause unhappiness once you grow large enough for that to be a mechanic, and you have to pay to demolish them when you build a district in that location.
[x] Preparing a punitive action would require deferring the construction of a new camp this year, but since most of your workers were survivors of the war with Angmar you should have a qualitative advantage.
--[x] Show your might and attempt to come to some kind of agreement.
[x] Small Civic District
--[x] Establish Courts (-2 Gold, +1 Prosperity, +1 Guardsmen)
[x] Build Docks (-5 Gold, -4 Stone, Shipbuilding)
[x] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
[x] Preparing a punitive action would require deferring the construction of a new camp this year, but since most of your workers were survivors of the war with Angmar you should have a qualitative advantage.
--[x] Show your might and attempt to come to some kind of agreement.
[x] Small Civic District
--[x] Establish Courts (-2 Gold, +1 Prosperity, +1 Guardsmen)
[x] Build Docks (-5 Gold, -4 Stone, Shipbuilding)
[x] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
Any new population we would get right now would build a shanty town before we can make them farmers. Demolishing these shanty towns would cost resources.
So, having a bit of housing overcapacity for population will save us gold/wood(?) in the long term.
Any new population we would get right now would build a shanty town before we can make them farmers. Demolishing these shanty towns would cost resources.
But if we build the farms now before our population grows, then we'll both have food for export and vacancies for 1 population in our current residential district.
@Sayle
Since I'm not sure you noticed my earlier question:
How do we build farms? We have to wait for pop growth before we can do it?
[x] Preparing a punitive action would require deferring the construction of a new camp this year, but since most of your workers were survivors of the war with Angmar you should have a qualitative advantage.
--[x] Show your might and attempt to come to some kind of agreement.
[x] Small Civic District
--[x] Establish Courts (-2 Gold, +1 Prosperity, +1 Guardsmen)
[x] Build Docks (-5 Gold, -4 Stone, Shipbuilding)
[x] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
Yeah, no. Armor works. Armor works really well. And it works even better if your enemy has no institutionalized military experience whatsoever.
I'm 100% sure what kind of "wildmen" we're dealing with here, but assuming what I imagine is more or less what is (small villages of essentially bronze-age subsistence agriculturalists), simply equipping some well-organized, well-trained soldiers (which we have, due to having a large number of veterans in our population) with helmet, shield and gambeson should be enough to let us raid them with near-impunity.
That being said, we should probably check:
@Sayle
What kind of "wildmen" are we dealing with here in terms of technology level, numbers and organization? Settled or nomadic?
You're dealing with settled wildmen, and they're not barbarians in the modern conception - they have a lifestyle very similar to the late First Age, before any Middle-Men or Numenorean kingdoms really arose. Not quite tribal, but certainly lacking the amenities or organisation of 'civilization' at this point in time. They branched off from the same group that formed the Dunlendings, and even co-existed with the hobbits at one point.
But if we build the farms now before our population grows, then we'll both have food for export and vacancies for 1 population in our current residential district.
