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City Building in Middle-Earth

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Admiral Skippy said:
The wild men of the Drúedain, who were disliked by the Rohirrim and the Gondorians in latter years but were actually counted amongst the Edain (the original kindred of humans who resisted Morgoth and who the Numenoreans and some others descend), built statues that walked and killed orcs attempting to encroach on their lands. And the Drúedain were primitive savages in comparison to the Numenoreans. Don't underestimate the crafts of the Edain.
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Ok, if they can do that, then I am ok with everything else. Also my apologies for seeming to be an ass, I get that they are a marvel of engineering, and the like. But, I am a fairly simple person, I like advanced tech, I like advancing from simple iron swords, into rifles and machine guns. I get that the marvel of engineering that the statues are, but did they do it with their own two hands, or bs magic. If it is the former, no need to advance rapidly , the later, then empire quest here we come.

It's just I really like lord of the rings, the the story, magic, and swords. Again this quest is amazing, I love building form the ground up, it's just I like technology, and the benefit it can have. From easier transport, to annihilating your enemies from a mile away. Or even better farming tech like farm rotations or better medical help. Or heck even super far ahead, the DOOM SPHERES. But if we are sticking to canon technology, then I will shut up, and see who this goes.
 
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Easter said:
Well thas the thing isnt it while they do seem to have some wonders, but they are also sorely lacking in other areas.
*Edit Also i think he means in the tech/culture department not in magic statues department.
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Culture is a very subjective thing to attempt to use as a measuring stick, particularly when one is focusing on more material things.

As for tech levels... like I said above: There's more to science than automation and metallurgy. Or gunpowder for that matter. What great leaps of technology do you expect to leap? Because gunpowder and industrialization are the only things the society DOESN'T seem to have access to. And even if not, probably the only things one would accept as 'a leap of technology.' Middle Earth is explicitly a place of fantasy, magic, and wonder, so disregarding how it's thematically appropriate... it's kind of unreasonable to demand it be developed and mastered centuries to millennia ahead of time for the sake of convenience.

On the note of automation though... Willing to bet the Dwarf's grand forge in Khazad Dun made extensive use of casts and molds for mass production of arms, armor, and tools.
 
Aeir/Number III said:
Culture is a very subjective thing to attempt to use as a measuring stick, particularly when one is focusing on more material things.

As for tech levels... like I said above: There's more to science than automation and metallurgy. Or gunpowder for that matter. What great leaps of technology do you expect to leap? Because gunpowder and industrialization are the only things the society DOESN'T seem to have access to. And even if not, probably the only things one would accept as 'a leap of technology.' Middle Earth is explicitly a place of fantasy, magic, and wonder, so disregarding how it's thematically appropriate... it's kind of unreasonable to demand it be developed and mastered centuries to millennia ahead of time for the sake of convenience.

On the note of automation though... Willing to bet the Dwarf's grand forge in Khazad Dun made extensive use of casts and molds for mass production of arms, armor, and tools.
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Sorry for the stringing but i dont know how to add a reply to the comment
What i mean by culture is not big instant shifts in culture but I mean kinda small things like little traditions or there views on things as time passes.
In science im pretty sure the humans didn't have half te stuff the dwarvies did and i kinda doubt that we have half the stuff the other humans have.(Sorry if im incorrect most of my info is just from reading fics/quests)
 
Easter said:
What i mean by culture is not big instant shifts in culture but I mean kinda small things like little traditions or there views on things as time passes.
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Which is why it's subjective and hard to benchmark. If you want Middle Earth Culture, read the original books and the Silmarillion. I can't really say much more than 'it's there, but the movies glossed over it for understandable reasons.'
 
Aeir/Number III said:
Which is why it's subjective and hard to benchmark. If you want Middle Earth Culture, read the original books and the Silmarillion. I can't really say much more than 'it's there, but the movies glossed over it for understandable reasons.'
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I understand your point I guess I've been playing to many god quests thinking we could change the culture like that.:oops:
 
[X] One Years Supply.

[X] Small Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood)
[X] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
 
DocMatoi said:
That depends on if you take the films or the books. The Dunedain of the books were the closest thing men had to elves.
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Being the closest men to elves and have regressed is not mutually exclusive thing. I'm talking about how Dunedain of this era don't have things like the Great Armament of Ar-Pharazon anymore. While I talked about Orthanc, it kind of up in the air whether they still can built its like. The Numenorean before Downfall sail in every direction of Arda save for True West, but the current Dunedain travels only nothwestern coast of Middle-Earth. This is not necessarily indicative of loss of skill or knowledge, it may just matter of not having enough resource, what with smaller territories and plagued with wars. Likewise, there's isn't much reason for seafaring so far away so it make sense that they stick to west coast. Still, it's not unfair to say that they have regressed, in the sense they are no longer as great as in the days of Elendil and his sons (and even more so if compared to the days of Numenor)
 
VOTE
[X] One Years Supply.
[X] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
[X] Small Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood)

We can afford this, and we need to grow our capacity quickly.
Civic District improves our ability to put a military in play.
Residential District increases our population capacity so we can grow next turn.
 
[X] One Years Supply.
[X] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
[X] Small Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood)
 
[X] One Years Supply.
[X] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
[X] Small Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood)
 
The Residential district will NOT increase our population by itself!
Sayle said:
Yes, but you need to have the food to 'spawn' another population. Otherwise they go live in shanties.
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We won't have the food for another 8 years, so we can easily build the civic district first before expanding our housing capacity.
 
[X] One Years Supply.
[X] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
[X] Small Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood)
 
Spacegnom said:
We won't have the food for another 8 years, so we can easily build the civic district first before expanding our housing capacity.
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Yeah, but next turn will take several years as well. There isn't much reason to not just shoplist for both now instead of having to have another turn just to build the residential district. On the other hand, who knows, we may have another pop-boosting event.
 
Spacegnom said:
The Residential district will NOT increase our population by itself!
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The math is clear.
We drop a Residential District this turn.
Next turn we build a new farm, or build another fishing fleet, both of which provide food, and generate the population to go into those Residential Districts.
Spacegnom said:
We won't have the food for another 8 years, so we can easily build the civic district first before expanding our housing capacity.
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This is wrong.

Even if we didn't build any other food-production, we are currently running enough of a food surplus to fill our granaries in 2 years, at which point that surplus production goes back into growing more population.
Building a new Residential District in anticipation of this is just good planning.
 
uju32 said:
Even if we didn't build any other food-production, we are currently running enough of a food surplus to fill our granaries in 2 years, at which point that surplus production goes back into growing more population.
Building a new Residential District in anticipation of this is just good planning.
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No spacegnom got it right. It's 2 years till granary fills and then its 5 years until new population increase (unless we got boosted from another event).
 
Salbazier said:
Yeah, but next turn will take several years as well. There isn't much reason to not just shoplist for both now instead of having to have another turn just to build the residential district. On the other hand, who knows, we may have another pop-boosting event.
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I agree that another pop-boosting event could happen. My reason for building the civic district first though is that we will probably get new actions to take from it. So, why rush to build a residential district that could potentially lay empty for up to 8 years.
During these 8 years we will accumulate alot of wood, gold and stone. Resources we could still spend before building that residential district. Especially since WOG is that lack of housing doesn't stop population growth. It only puts them into shanties.
uju32 said:
The math is clear.
This is wrong.
Even if we didn't build any other food-production, we are currently running enough of a food surplus to fill our granaries in 2 years, at which point that surplus production goes back into growing more population.
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First you say the math is clear, and then you go to say that we really need that residential district now..
Food: +1 (0/6 Growth) [3/5 Stored].
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That makes it 8 years until we get a another population from normal growth.
 
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Spacegnom said:
That makes it 8 years until we get a another population from normal growth.
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We are dropping one of three structures next turn:
A farm: +3 food
A fishing fleet, requires wood: + 3 food
A dock, requires 4 stone: ?? effects on fishing and trade.

Either way, we are looking at a population boost in two turns, even without events.
So yeah, there are good reasons to avoid running short of shelter.
Especially since I THINK shanty towns are especially vulnerable to harsh winters.
 
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Spacegnom said:
I agree that another pop-boosting event could happen. My reason for building the civic district first though is that we will probably get new actions to take from it. So, why rush to build a residential district that could potentially lay empty for up to 8 years.
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Because it possible we won't get the next turn until eight years later?
Spacegnom said:
During these 8 years we will accumulate alot of wood, gold and stone. Resources we could still spend before building that residential district. Especially since WOG is that lack of housing doesn't stop population growth. It only puts them into shanties.
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Makes one wonder what's the point of housing. @Sayle What's the effect of having pop in shanties instead of proper housing?

Anyway, You ask why build residence that would lay empty for years, I ask why stockpile resources and have them languished unused for years?
In 8 years, even with the harshest winter all the time we'll gather at least additional 8 wood. Between stockpiling for a year and building two districts we are left with 5 wood still. That's assuming bad winter for whole 8 years, otherwise we'll have more. Same with gold. 8 years is +16 gold and we already have 29 in treasury. Unless any new option is realy exorbitant we are likely could still afford it.
 
Salbazier said:
Because it possible we won't get the next turn until eight years later?

Makes one wonder what's the point of housing. @Sayle What's the effect of having pop in shanties instead of proper housing?
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You start to get negative events, it'll cause unhappiness once you grow large enough for that to be a mechanic, and you have to pay to demolish them when you build a district in that location.
 
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