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Project Knight [Mecha Design Bureau]

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Thread said:
[] [Size] Medium Chassis
[X] [Config] Four-Limbed Model
[X] [Comp] Ergonomic Steel Core Skeleton

Why are people voting for more then one thing in each category? You can only pick one.
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This vote is using Approval Voting, so you can vote for as many options as you like - if you can't decide between two for example, you can vote for both and ensure they're both winning over the options you don't like.

Adhoc vote count started by Verisaimilitude on Jan 14, 2025 at 5:35 AM, finished with 30 posts and 14 votes.
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Ergonomic Steel-Core Skeleton is handily winning the composition vote and looks nearly locked.

The battle between Four-Limbed and Six-Limbed models remains very tight.

Small Size continues to lead Medium Size, but the gap could absolutely be reversed by a swing in the voting!
 
Thread said:
How are we going to fit six limbs on a small frame? I feel like there could be engineering problems with that or they are even more small limbs.
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No clue. The small chassis isn't really adding towards our requirements either. The large chassis gives us the most for comparatively little cost. For something that is intended to be a defender and mobile artillery you would think that bigger would be better for our first project than trying to squeeze everything into a comparatively small package.
 
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Personally, I'm just not sure if the tradeoff of a -3 in our Logistics Score is worth the benefits of a large frame. The large frame is the only one with a big cost to it, the others only give a -1 to our Logistics Score. Granted, it might give us lots of options down the line with the increase in tonnage and hardpoints, but if all of those options and weapons also reduce our Logistics Score, we might have to limit ourselves to the cheap options even if we do have room for them. Since the name of the game here is a cheap but efficient machine, I'm trying to be conservative even at the very first hurdle
 
griffinlw said:
Personally, I'm just not sure if the tradeoff of a -3 in our Logistics Score is worth the benefits of a large frame. The large frame is the only one with a big cost to it, the others only give a -1 to our Logistics Score. Granted, it might give us lots of options down the line with the increase in tonnage and hardpoints, but if all of those options and weapons also reduce our Logistics Score, we might have to limit ourselves to the cheap options even if we do have room for them. Since the name of the game here is a cheap but efficient machine, I'm trying to be conservative even at the very first hurdle
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With the Four-Limbed Model and Ergonomic Steel Core the trade off in our logistics Score becomes neutral while at the same time raising our Build and Repair Speed score by 2 which directly feeds into one of the requirements we are supposed to reach. So overall it is a net positive with a few bonuses for the resulting mech.

The increase of ease of maintenance also helps offset the cost.
 
[X] [Size] Medium Chassis

[X] [Config] Four-Limbed Model
[X] [Config] Six-Limbed Model

[X] [Comp] Ergonomic Steel Core Skeleton
[X] [Comp] Reinforced Steel Core Skeleton
 
Adhoc vote count started by Verisaimilitude on Jan 14, 2025 at 3:48 PM, finished with 39 posts and 17 votes.
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looks like a medium/small tie
and 4/6 legs are only one vote apart
 
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    • Scheduled vote count started by Verisaimilitude on Jan 13, 2025 at 7:50 PM, finished with 44 posts and 18 votes.
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    • We're trying to build something that can be built and adopted in mass. If we don't screw it up it's gonna be the second most well known generation 1 warmech.
     
    Silversun17 said:
    wait, what if we put road wheels on the back of the lower legs so it can drive on roads for greater response range?
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    Sure. Tracks for the backside, wheels on the back legs, and the front legs are held up while in drive mode. Then hold the backside up and walk on the back & front legs while going over rough terrain.

    (But seriously, it's probably going to be a headless donkey with a cannon backpack.)
     
    Are we making a Tachikoma? Except without the AI.

    well, the General sipder-tank designs from Ghost in the shell.
     
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    I would not mind making a spider mech because it would be so diffrent then anything that is not power Rangers or Voltron. An half spider with torso up.

    Edit:
    Maybe for better run jumping for the bottom half of the mech.
     
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    Turn 4: Year 1 of Project Knight (Sub-Project Bushfire) New
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    • Project Knight - Mecha Design Bureau
    Turn 4: Year 1 of Project Knight (Sub-Project Bushfire)    ​

    [] [Size] Small Chassis
    [] [Config] Four-Limbed Model
    [] [Comp] Ergonomic Steel Core Skeleton

    The development of the basic design was intense and fiercely debated. Countless drafts were proposed, debated, and discarded. Numerous size profiles and limb configurations were proposed, but in the end, only one could be chosen. Given your potential customer base, their restrictions, and the capabilities you desired most, the decision was eventually made to forge ahead with a four-limbed model. The first mockups and working prototypes were primitive - and also revealing as to where the refined prototype could go. Despite the challenges and learnings, the higher-ups continued to pour funding into your operation, which eased the pain of learning.

    Your engineers worked long hours through the year before eventually producing an effective prototype.

    Rolls for Chosen Upgrades:
    Engineering Rolls: Your team will roll dice for each factor of the design they are trying to impact. The dice roll is a simple d20 modified by their level of training and experience in a given field, versus a difficulty target that must be met or exceeded. The degree of success/failure will then modify the final result accordingly.

    Scaling Difficulty: Note that The higher the rating of the aspect you are trying to improve, the more difficult the roll will be - thus you will see see diminishing returns if you repeatedly invest in a single facet. To overcome this, your bureau will need to grow in experience, and you will need to develop new tools, technologies, etc. that will improve your engineers' bonuses or lower the difficulty of tasks. Occasionally, specific components or choices you make when building a mech will also adjust these rolls (see the compact/enlarged hull options in this turn's vote.)

    Bonus: Your team is currently very well funded! Your engineers get to roll twice and choose the higher result.

    [] [Size] Small Chassis
    Structural Engineering (Quadrapod): Trained (+2) vs. Extra Difficulty (+1)
    Structural Efficiency improves from F+ to E+ | (18 vs. Diff 11 - minor success)
    Structural Engineering (Miniaturization): Trained (+2) vs. Extra Difficulty (+1)
    Technology Cost decreases from A to B+ | (13 vs. Diff 9 - minor success)

    [] [Config] Four-Limbed Model
    Structural Engineering (Quadrapod):     Trained (+2) vs. Extra Difficulty (+1)
    Ease of Maintenance improves from E- to D- | (17 vs. Diff 12 - minor success)
    Skeletal Kinematics (Quadrapod): Trained (+2) vs. Extra Difficulty (+2)
    Limb Drive Speed improves from F- to F+ | (9 vs. Diff 10 - minor failure)

    [] [Comp] Ergonomic Steel Core Skeleton
    Structural Engineering (Quadrapod):     Trained (+2) vs. Extra Difficulty (+3)
    Structural Efficiency improves from E+ to D | (9 vs. Diff 14 - minor failure)
    Structural Engineering (Quadrapod): Trained (+2) vs. Extra Difficulty (+2)
    Build & Repair Speeds improves from F+ to D | (22* vs. Diff 12 - critical success)

    The main underlying skeletal structure for the torso and leg support was coming along smoothly, although it wasn't without its setbacks. Figuring out how to build an efficient four-limb skeleton was proving challenging to the team, and in particular they were having troubles figuring out efficient methods of transferring power from the engine to the limbs. Lift capability wasn't an issue - it could hold its weight and more just fine - but the actuator team was struggling with figuring out how to include both articulation and rapid power flow. This was going to be limiting to the velocity of the limbs - but with a good engine and more time spent refining the limb actuators, it wasn't an unsolvable problem.


    Sub-Project 'Heavy Fireside Crawler' (Codename: Bushfire):
    End of Project Requirements:
    1. Appeal to the budget constraints of Second Tier States (Logistical Values MUST average D or higher).
    2. Keep Production Cost affordable (preferably C or higher).
    3. Keep Build & Repair Speed ratings high (preferably D or higher).
    4. Must be a capable weapons platform against armoured targets (Battle Effectiveness MUST average D or higher).

    NOTE: I have split Skeletal Stability into its own rating at this point; I found I needed to clearly differentiate between them at this stage of development to make things make sense.

    Dimensions/Tonnage:
    Height: ~4.19m (in flux, will change with limb decisions)
    Length: ~6.28m (in flux, will change with limb decisions)
    Breadth: ~3.14m (in flux, will change with limb decisions)
    Tonnage: ~71.24t (in flux, will change with limb decisions)

    Technical Specifications:
    N/A

    Skeletal Design (E-)
    • D - S-EFF - Structural Efficiency
    • F+ - S-DUR - Skeletal Durability
    • F - S-AGI - Skeletal Agility
    • E - S-STB - Skeletal Stability
    • F+ - S-ACT - Actuator Precision
    Battle Effectiveness (F+)
    • E- - T-WPN - Weapons Hardpoints
    • F+ - T-ARM - Armour Plating
    • F - T-PTP - Pilot Protection
    • F- T-PTJ - Joint Protection
    • F - T-PTC - Component Protection
    Power and Drive Effectiveness (F+)
    • F+ - P-PWC - Power Control
    • F+ - P-SPD - Limb Drive Speed
    • E- - P-HTM - Heat Management
    Logistical Values (C+)
    • A- - L-CST Production Cost
    • B+ - L-TCH - Technology Cost
    • D - L-BNR - Build & Repair Speeds
    • D- - L-EOM - Ease of Maintenance


    We had agreed on the basic design of the chassis, but now it was time to hammer down the details. The general design of the body of the Mech (including size and shape) would be important to determining our weapons and component space. Additionally, we needed to finalize the position and style of the limbs and their actuators. With those characteristics in place, we'd have the starting silhouette of our mech and figuring out how to develop and place weapons and armour would be much easier from there.


    New Vote: Please design the Chassis Skeletal Design you want!
    Approval voting is used to represent some level of chaos and unpredictability in a large project like this - not everything is always going to come out perfect, and you'll have to do your best to make it work at each stage of development. There will be some time at the end of a project to refine and address flaws or contradictions in the design, depending on how much funding you receive for the project. The top vote from each category will win - ties will be resolved with a coin flip/die roll.

    Hull Size:
    [Balanced Hull] Using what we know about our components and Industrial Mech design, we stick with a fairly tried and true set of proportions.
    [+1] Build & Repair Speeds, [+1] Ease of Maintenance

    [Snub-nosed Hull] - The hull's length is scaled closer to the hull's breadth, while its height bulges slightly to retain volume, giving the Mech a more compact overall profile while preserving internal space. This reduces the amount of hull space available for mounting weapons.
    [+1] Reduced Dimensions, [+1] Build & Repair Speeds, [+1] Ease of Maintenance
    [-1] Weapons Hardpoints

    [Compact Hull] - The overall dimensions of the hull are somewhat reduced, reducing weight and visible profile of the Mech, but making it more challenging to fit required components in the remaining design space.
    [+1] Increased Usable Tonnage, [+1] Skeletal Efficiency, [+1] Build & Repair Speeds, [+1] Production Cost
    [-1] Roll Penalty when designing/adding components to Project's Body, [-1] Ease of Maintenance, [-1] Heat Management

    [Enlarged Hull] - The overall dimensions of the hull are increased, adding space and reducing the difficulty of engineering components, at the cost of increasing weight and the visible profile of the Mech.
    [+1] Roll Bonus when designing/adding components to Project's Body, [+1] Weapon Hardpoints, [+1] Heat Management, [+1] Ease of Maintenance
    [-1] Reduced Usable Tonnage, [-1] Production Cost

    Hull Style:
    [Standard Hull] A simple and easy to produce sloped hull, cheap to build and good at everything.
    [+1] Weapons Hardpoints, [+1] Armour Plating, [+1] Build & Repair Speeds, [+1] Ease of Maintenance
    [-1] Production Cost

    [Reinforced Hull] A little more expensive, this design sacrifices some of its payload potential to increase the Mech's survivability.
    [+2] Armour Plating, [+1] Skeletal Durability, [+1] Pilot Protection, [+1] Component Protection
    [-2] Production Cost

    [Gunboat Hull] Designed for weapons platforms, this design sacrifices some of its potential for mounting armour for dedicated space for the placement and management of weapons.
    [+2] Weapons Hardpoints, [+1] Component Protection, [+1] Power Control, [+1] Heat Management
    [-1] Production Cost, [-1] Technology Cost

    [Ergonomic Hull] Sleek and almost biological at first glance, this hull design works in tandem with the body's limbs to maximize the potential mobility of the chassis.
    [+1] Skeletal Efficiency, [+1] Skeletal Agility, [+1] Weapon Hardpoints, [+1] Armour Plating, [+1] Power Control, [+1] Limb Driver Speed
    [-1] Production Cost, [-1] Technology Cost, [-1] Ease of Maintenance

    Limb Style:
    [Simple Lateral Legs] Connecting the legs to the side of the body provides a decent balance of accessibility, stability, and support.
    [+1] Skeletal Stability, [+1] Limb Drive Speed, [+1] Ease of Maintenance

    [Simple Medial Legs] Connecting the legs underneath the body provides a greater degree of power and speed.
    [+2] Limb Drive Speed, [+1] Skeletal Agility
    [-1] Technology Cost

    [Simple Dorsal Legs] Attaching the legs to the upper sides of the body is simple, cheap, and easy, while also allowing the legs to act as additional shields protecting the body from enemy fire.
    [+1] Skeletal Stability] [+1] Armour Plating, [+1] Component Protection, [+1] Production Cost, [+1] Build & Repair Speed
    [-1] Skeletal Agility, [-1] Joint Protection, [-1] Limb Drive Speed

    [Crouched Lateral Legs] By lowering itself to the ground, the Mech will reduce its height profile and improve stability at a cost of speed and agility.
    [+1] Reduced Height, [+2] Skeletal Stability, [+1] Joint Protection, [+1] Ease of Maintenance
    [-1] Skeletal Agility

    [Crouched Medial Legs] By lowering itself to the ground, the Mech will reduce its height profile at a cost of speed and agility.
    [+1] Reduced Height, [+1] Skeletal Stability, [+1] Limb Drive Speed, [+1] Joint Protection
    [-1] Technology Cost

    [Crouched Dorsal Legs] By lowering itself to the ground, the Mech will reduce its height profile at a cost of speed and agility.
    [+1] Reduced Height, [+2] Skeletal Stability] [+1] Armour Plating, [+1] Component Protection, [+1] Production Cost], [+1] Build & Repair Speed
    [-2] Skeletal Agility, [-2] Limb Drive Speed

    [Heavy Lateral Legs] By greatly increasing the weight and power of the limbs, Heavy Limbs grant gains stability and survivability at the cost of mobility and a bit of extra expense.
    [+2] Skeletal Stability, [+1] Skeletal Durability, [+1] Armour Plating, [+1] Joint Protection [+1] Ease of Maintenance
    [-1] Skeletal Agility, [-1] Production Cost, [-1] Build & Repair Speed

    [Heavy Medial Legs] By greatly increasing the weight and power of the limbs, Heavy Limbs grant stability and survivability at the cost of mobility and a bit of extra expense.
    [+1] Skeletal Stability, [+1] Skeletal Durability, [+1] Limb Drive Speed, [+1] Armour Plating, [+1] Joint Protection
    [-1] Technology Cost, [-1] Production Cost, [-1] Build & Repair Speed

    [Heavy Dorsal Legs] By greatly increasing the weight and power of the limbs, Heavy Limbs grant stability and survivability at the cost of mobility and a bit of extra expense.
    [+2] Skeletal Stability] [+2] Armour Plating, [+1] Component Protection
    [-2] Skeletal Agility, [-2] Limb Drive Speed

    Limb Actuator Design:
    [Basic Actuator Design] A fairly standard set of mechanical actuators based on Industrial Mech designs. Serviceable and effective at their job.
    [+1] Actuator Precision, [+1] Skeletal Agility, [+1] Limb Drive Speed

    [Simplified Actuator Design] A set of simplified mechanical actuators to bring production and maintenance costs down at the cost of the agility and durability of the skeletal system.
    [+1] Actuator Precision, [+1] Production Cost, [+1] Technology Cost, [+1] Ease of Maintenance
    [-1] Skeletal Agility, [-1] Skeletal Durability

    [Durable Actuator Design] A set of hardened and protected actuators which are protected from enemy fire and have built-in redundancies to reduce the risk of disabled limbs.
    [+1] Actuator Precision, [+1] Limb Drive Speed, [+1] Joint Protection, [+1] Skeletal Durability
    [-1] Skeletal Agility, [-1] Production Cost

    [Powerful Actuator Design] These actuators are optimized for thrusting power, increasing the Mech's lift capacity and greatly increasing the rate and velocity of limb motions.
    [+2] Limb Drive Speed, [+1] Increased Usable Tonnage
    [-1] Ease of Maintenance, [-1] Technology Cost

    [Flexible Actuator Design] These actuators are optimized for range of motion and flexibility, ensuring the mech is as responsive and agile as possible.
    [+2] Skeletal Agility, [+1] Actuator Precision, [+1] Skeletal Stability
    [-1] Ease of Maintenance, [-1] Technology Cost

    [Precise Actuator Design] These actuators are optimized for the ability to make extremely small, precise movements, which makes them ideal for any mech design that relies on using its limbs to manipulate and control things. (Not recommended for a Quadrapod.)
    [+2] Actuator Precision, [+1] Skeletal Agility, [+1] Skeletal Stability
    [-1] Ease of Maintenance, [-1] Technology Cost


    [] [Body Size] Balanced Hull
    [] [Body Size] Snub-Nosed Hull
    [] [Body Size] Compact Hull
    [] [Body Size] Enlarged Hull

    [] [Body Style] Standard Hull
    [] [Body Style] Reinforced Hull
    [] [Body Style] Gunboat Hull
    [] [Body Style] Ergonomic Hull

    [] [Limb Style] Simple Lateral Legs
    [] [Limb Style] Simple Medial Legs
    [] [Limb Style] Simple Dorsal Legs
    [] [Limb Style] Crouched Lateral Legs
    [] [Limb Style] Crouched Medial Legs
    [] [Limb Style] Crouched Dorsal Legs
    [] [Limb Style] Heavy Lateral Legs
    [] [Limb Style] Heavy Medial Legs
    [] [Limb Style] Heavy Dorsal Legs

    [] [Actuators] Basic Actuator Design
    [] [Actuators] Simplified Actuator Design
    [] [Actuators] Durable Actuator Design
    [] [Actuators] Powerful Actuator Design
    [] [Actuators] Flexible Actuator Design
    [] [Actuators] Precise Actuator Design


    This is definitely hitting on the upper limit of how much stuff I'm willing to put into one vote, tbh, but I feel like these are all related enough that it still works, and I want to finish the base chassis design by tomorrow for other reasons. Votes on each stage of design will usually be smaller than this. Maybe I should've split off the legs and just accepted that it'll take a bit longer to finish, but it's too late now - I've committed and we'll see how it goes!

    Voting is now open until at least

    At the end of this vote, a couple things will happen:
    1. The core of the chassis design is completed - the skeleton may be tweaked and adjusted later depending on what happens, but most of the details are locked in.
    2. I will draw the first schematic of your Prototype Mech! I'm looking forward to seeing it 'come to life' even if it's still super WIP.
    3. The higher-ups will give you a project review on your work so far, which will detail any concerns they have, and any additional information or assistance they can offer.
    4. I'll review how the mechanics have worked so far and if I have to adjust anything to keep it fair, balanced, and what I need to adjust to fit my intentions. I'm winging it here so I'm expecting some hiccups and refinement is required. I also need to review the rules on weapons to make sure they're fit for purpose before we get to that stage.
    5. I will probably need to take a break for a day or two because I have D&D on Thursday nights and the above will take me a little bit to finish.
    EDIT: Forgot to explicitly add the 'reduced height' bonus to the crouched style legs, that's done now.
     
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