She can just keep doing it yeah, it's not like other Hexes in that the effect is inherently temporary.
Finding the Spark (Pathfinder 1E Quest)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Fantasy
-
- Tags
- pathfinder
She can just keep doing it yeah, it's not like other Hexes in that the effect is inherently temporary.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Okay, obviously I would prefer to just shiv this dude and be done with it. I realize, however, that some of y'all might be more forgiving than me.
So let's give him enough rope to hang himself. After he spills his guts, there probably won't be much IC motivation not to literally spill his guts. If that changes, well then things will be more complicated and we'll probably need the governor to contact one of the temples and arrange for a high level Cleric to stop by. The spells we can use aren't going to cut it for long-term Drow management. That'll need shit like Major Curse and Geas/Quest.
Any other questions y'all think I should include?
[X] Tell Me Your Sins
-[X] Kori activates the Glibness power of his bracers to gain a +20 Bluff bonus for the next 70 minutes. The Drow holds a great deal of information in his head which could prove valuable, but he isn't likely to share it if he believes doing so won't spare his life.
--[X] "Even if you do not worship the Blood Marquis, your hands are still stained with the blood of untold innocents. If you wish to save yourself, you will tell us everything we want to know. Prove that you can be useful enough to justify the risk of leaving you alive, and share enough that you can never hope to return to Zirnakaynin or any other Drow stronghold for fear of the repercussions for your betrayal, and arrangements will be made to secure your continued existence. We will cast spells upon you to aid us in this. You will allow the spells to take hold, or you will be slain. If you are untruthful, you will be slain. Do you agree?" Sirim will provide Aid Another assistance with Kori's Bluffing.
---[X] If he accepts, Kori will use Shadow Enchantment to cast a Suggestion Spell on him with instructions to truthfully answer our questions to the best of his ability, then use his headband to cast Detect Thoughts on the Drow to monitor his surface thoughts throughout the interrogation.
---[X] If the Drow refuses, Cob will render him unconscious. In this case, we will resort to the alternative; After we wake him up, Mina will use her Evil Eye Hex to penalize his saving throws by -2 followed by casting an Ill Omen spell to force bad rerolls on him, then Shadow Enchantment Suggestions (first attempted by Sirim, then Kori if the first one fails) and Kori's Detect Thoughts. If the Drow resists both Suggestion attempts, Cob will kill him.
---[X] Throughout this process, Mina will observe using Detect Magic to confirm that both spell effects have succeeded and that they remain in effect. If he chose not to cooperate and we had to try to overcome his resistance, Gorok will kill him if the Suggestion spell ends prematurely.
-[X] If the spells succeed, or we successfully cast Suggestion against his will, we will begin the interrogation.
---[X] How long has he been in Cassomir and what has he been doing here? Who are his contacts here and how did he meet them?
---[X] How many other Drow are in and below the city? What does he know of their assigned tasks and any plan they may have had? What does he know of the three-eyed Elf we discovered through Divination?
---[X] Did he receive additional instructions after coming to the surface? If so, how, when, and from whom?
---[X] Who is Marian Cicato and what are his dealings with them?
---[X] Does he have any safe houses or caches of supplies hidden in Cassomir or elsewhere? If so, where, what do they contain, and how are they protected?
--[X] What are his intentions if he is allowed to live? What does he plan to do when he eats his freedom? Will he seek revenge for his capture, or the death of his co-conspirators?
---[X] Who was his Matron and from which House does he originate? How long has it been since he left Zirnakaynin?
---[X] What does he know of the political situation in Zirnakaynin and the surrounding city-states, not only of the Drow but the Duergar and other people's as well? What Houses are ascendant and which are in decline? To which Demon Lords are they subservient?
---[X] After the interrogation, if the Drow refused to cooperate, he will be killed.
-[X] Wrapping up the Skali angle:
--[X] While the Drow is being interrogated, Sirim, Cob, Sir Pisca, and six of Leontas' least reputable looking men will hurry off to the Locker to meet Skali to purchase the slaves as previously agreed. If the Drow refuses to cooperate and successfully resists our spells, we will kill him and the entire group will head out to meet with Skali.
---[X] Kori will cast a Bless and Invisibility spell into Cob's Ring of Spell Storing before they go.
So let's give him enough rope to hang himself. After he spills his guts, there probably won't be much IC motivation not to literally spill his guts. If that changes, well then things will be more complicated and we'll probably need the governor to contact one of the temples and arrange for a high level Cleric to stop by. The spells we can use aren't going to cut it for long-term Drow management. That'll need shit like Major Curse and Geas/Quest.
Any other questions y'all think I should include?
[X] Tell Me Your Sins
-[X] Kori activates the Glibness power of his bracers to gain a +20 Bluff bonus for the next 70 minutes. The Drow holds a great deal of information in his head which could prove valuable, but he isn't likely to share it if he believes doing so won't spare his life.
--[X] "Even if you do not worship the Blood Marquis, your hands are still stained with the blood of untold innocents. If you wish to save yourself, you will tell us everything we want to know. Prove that you can be useful enough to justify the risk of leaving you alive, and share enough that you can never hope to return to Zirnakaynin or any other Drow stronghold for fear of the repercussions for your betrayal, and arrangements will be made to secure your continued existence. We will cast spells upon you to aid us in this. You will allow the spells to take hold, or you will be slain. If you are untruthful, you will be slain. Do you agree?" Sirim will provide Aid Another assistance with Kori's Bluffing.
---[X] If he accepts, Kori will use Shadow Enchantment to cast a Suggestion Spell on him with instructions to truthfully answer our questions to the best of his ability, then use his headband to cast Detect Thoughts on the Drow to monitor his surface thoughts throughout the interrogation.
---[X] If the Drow refuses, Cob will render him unconscious. In this case, we will resort to the alternative; After we wake him up, Mina will use her Evil Eye Hex to penalize his saving throws by -2 followed by casting an Ill Omen spell to force bad rerolls on him, then Shadow Enchantment Suggestions (first attempted by Sirim, then Kori if the first one fails) and Kori's Detect Thoughts. If the Drow resists both Suggestion attempts, Cob will kill him.
---[X] Throughout this process, Mina will observe using Detect Magic to confirm that both spell effects have succeeded and that they remain in effect. If he chose not to cooperate and we had to try to overcome his resistance, Gorok will kill him if the Suggestion spell ends prematurely.
-[X] If the spells succeed, or we successfully cast Suggestion against his will, we will begin the interrogation.
---[X] How long has he been in Cassomir and what has he been doing here? Who are his contacts here and how did he meet them?
---[X] How many other Drow are in and below the city? What does he know of their assigned tasks and any plan they may have had? What does he know of the three-eyed Elf we discovered through Divination?
---[X] Did he receive additional instructions after coming to the surface? If so, how, when, and from whom?
---[X] Who is Marian Cicato and what are his dealings with them?
---[X] Does he have any safe houses or caches of supplies hidden in Cassomir or elsewhere? If so, where, what do they contain, and how are they protected?
--[X] What are his intentions if he is allowed to live? What does he plan to do when he eats his freedom? Will he seek revenge for his capture, or the death of his co-conspirators?
---[X] Who was his Matron and from which House does he originate? How long has it been since he left Zirnakaynin?
---[X] What does he know of the political situation in Zirnakaynin and the surrounding city-states, not only of the Drow but the Duergar and other people's as well? What Houses are ascendant and which are in decline? To which Demon Lords are they subservient?
---[X] After the interrogation, if the Drow refused to cooperate, he will be killed.
-[X] Wrapping up the Skali angle:
--[X] While the Drow is being interrogated, Sirim, Cob, Sir Pisca, and six of Leontas' least reputable looking men will hurry off to the Locker to meet Skali to purchase the slaves as previously agreed. If the Drow refuses to cooperate and successfully resists our spells, we will kill him and the entire group will head out to meet with Skali.
---[X] Kori will cast a Bless and Invisibility spell into Cob's Ring of Spell Storing before they go.
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- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I don't like the whole "kill him and be done with it" parts of your plan at all. I want the info. I really want the info. (And then probably kill him).
If the drow refuses, we should (readied actions; non-lethal attacks) knock him out, Curse him, Ill Omen him, wake him, and then cast Suggestion+Detect thoughts.
I am also supremely uninterested in the following. Like, maybe it'd be good info to have and the governor might like that sort of thing, but when it comes to on-screen stuff I don't really care about drow internal house politics. :
---[ ] What Houses are ascendant and which are in decline?
----
Regardless, I strongly feel that the three-eyed drow elf lady and the "will you seek revenge" questions should be left to the very end:
The three-eyed drow question might risk running against "won't do stuff that risks your life".
Maybe rather than "what do you know" we'd get further with "what can you tell us about"?
The "will you seek revenge" question will either have a response of "no", or he won't be compelled to answer truthfully, and he'd have an opportunity to make a bluff check and lie "no".
----
@DragonParadox If we've Suggested someone to answer our questions with full and sincere honesty, and we ask a question that they belive will cause them direct threat to life and limb if they answer.
1. Does the Suggestion end there fully, or does it resume for the next question
2. If it ends there fully, do we know that it ends
3. If it's just suppressed/ignored/resisted for that one question, do we know that this happens (I don't mean via a Sense Motive check, I mean via a caster feeling their spells having an effect or not)
Edit: I'll be back at my laptop in about two hours, so I'll steal your plan because at this point it just feels more comforting to do that rather than make my own from scratch
If the drow refuses, we should (readied actions; non-lethal attacks) knock him out, Curse him, Ill Omen him, wake him, and then cast Suggestion+Detect thoughts.
I am also supremely uninterested in the following. Like, maybe it'd be good info to have and the governor might like that sort of thing, but when it comes to on-screen stuff I don't really care about drow internal house politics. :
---[ ] What Houses are ascendant and which are in decline?
----
Regardless, I strongly feel that the three-eyed drow elf lady and the "will you seek revenge" questions should be left to the very end:
The three-eyed drow question might risk running against "won't do stuff that risks your life".
Maybe rather than "what do you know" we'd get further with "what can you tell us about"?
The "will you seek revenge" question will either have a response of "no", or he won't be compelled to answer truthfully, and he'd have an opportunity to make a bluff check and lie "no".
----
@DragonParadox If we've Suggested someone to answer our questions with full and sincere honesty, and we ask a question that they belive will cause them direct threat to life and limb if they answer.
1. Does the Suggestion end there fully, or does it resume for the next question
2. If it ends there fully, do we know that it ends
3. If it's just suppressed/ignored/resisted for that one question, do we know that this happens (I don't mean via a Sense Motive check, I mean via a caster feeling their spells having an effect or not)
Edit: I'll be back at my laptop in about two hours, so I'll steal your plan because at this point it just feels more comforting to do that rather than make my own from scratch
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- Location
- Germany
If that's a player in this city, the governor should already know.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I've updated my plan to not kill him upon refusal, but rather to render him unconscious.
I'll also update it to force the issue if he refuses instead of killing him outright. Having Kori use his Glibness bracers for the threat of killing him if he refuses should be enough to insure his cooperation, but it doesn't hurt to be thorough.
Gonna add this to the plan.
This is important information for us if we ever intend to return to Nar Voth. We are unlikely to get a better source for real Drow info any time soon, so we might as well make the most of the opportunity.
DP doesn't need to use a lot of screen time for this, but getting the info from a good source should allow us to make basic Knowledge checks on the subject, at least.
I'll rearrange the questions a bit.
Asking about the three-eyed Drow shouldn't be an issue, though. He's already seeking to betray the Drow, he can't really extra betray them. He's fucked either way in that regard.
What the governor knows, or thinks he knows, might be very different than what the Drow knows.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I've updated my plan to still attempt to interrogate the Drow if he refuses to cooperate. I doubt he will refuse, though.
With Sirim's assistance, Kori is going to have a +43 Bluff bonus. The Drow is going to believe we will kill him if he doesn't cooperate. A chance for survival is better than a guaranteed trip to the Abyss, even for a Demon worshiper.
I've also rearranged the questions by priority.
With Sirim's assistance, Kori is going to have a +43 Bluff bonus. The Drow is going to believe we will kill him if he doesn't cooperate. A chance for survival is better than a guaranteed trip to the Abyss, even for a Demon worshiper.
I've also rearranged the questions by priority.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Oh! Had a thought. In order to get him to agree to be suggested because "we want him to work for the govenor", getting him split from the drow by him telling us too much about them is kinda helpful, but more than that, we would want something that he would be able to get from the governor as an 'employee', something that would make him want to stay working for the governor in particular, rather than just "not go home."
Also, wouldn't governor knowing all the political stuff about the drow would make the governor a problem/loose end if this drow ever was worried about his kin being extra incentivised to come after him?
And thus if we ask about that, might not the drow realise that we intend to kill him?
[Then again "basic overview of this threat" is possibly something he should expect to be asked]
Edit: Oh! Does he know anything about escaped pirates? Did they have/make an agreement with the drow?
[The Divination that gave us the picture of the three eyed drow was something like "what would we find down there", we have nothing actually tying the pirate's to the drow save physical location.
Ya know, Pisca's a great plot-hook pusher person. If not for him we'd probaly have shrugged and gone on with things]
Also, wouldn't governor knowing all the political stuff about the drow would make the governor a problem/loose end if this drow ever was worried about his kin being extra incentivised to come after him?
And thus if we ask about that, might not the drow realise that we intend to kill him?
[Then again "basic overview of this threat" is possibly something he should expect to be asked]
Edit: Oh! Does he know anything about escaped pirates? Did they have/make an agreement with the drow?
[The Divination that gave us the picture of the three eyed drow was something like "what would we find down there", we have nothing actually tying the pirate's to the drow save physical location.
Ya know, Pisca's a great plot-hook pusher person. If not for him we'd probaly have shrugged and gone on with things]
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I've already got the "incriminate yourself so you can never go home" angle covered in my plan.
I don't think we should imply he would have a job waiting here working for the governor. IMO, that's more unbelievable than the idea that we're going to let him live. Staying in this city would be extremely bad for his continued long-term existence considering how few Drow there are and how many interested parties there seem to be. There are the Elves, the other Drow, the WWC, and House Basri, and those are just the ones we know about.
If we somehow actually decide not to kill him, the governor and his allies can make arrangements to ship him off somewhere after he is Geased into subservience.
The Drow are sending people to fuck around in his city. This is absolutely information that he needs to know. I highly doubt he would choose to leave the room when he could instead be learning all sorts of important stuff about a potential enemy of Taldor.
Actually, him learning all of this could be very good for him if he can then turn around and report it to the crown. That's serious browny points he can earn himself and his faction.
- Location
- St. Petersburg
Ah, so it is exactly as we suspected. He went behind the backs of his murder-friends and aligned himself with the Cicatos, or just Marian Cicatos. It's the name of a rumor-monger that we heard from the governor before. Clearly there are people in this city who think too much murder -- and thus too many drow -- is bad for business. I assume the elves would get dead drow on a platter, and Cicatos would get all the drug business to himself, along with the best cook there is. Sounds like the perfect arrangement that we just thoroughly ruined; it might get some people a little upset over the lost fortunes.
...what next, wheelchair bombs?
What is the relation between Marian Cicatos and House Basri? The governor could tell us at least that much.
It is unclear what that has to do with the princess and the Shax cultists. Is this a matron's plot? She has a good thing going here; I wonder what she'd exchange it for.
The guy is evil, there is no doubt about it, but he could be made to play ball. As I said before, I am fine with letting him live so long as he gets us an opportunity to fry the big fish, and leave the city at our own pace rather than flee fearing the revenge of the powerful.
...what next, wheelchair bombs?
What is the relation between Marian Cicatos and House Basri? The governor could tell us at least that much.
It is unclear what that has to do with the princess and the Shax cultists. Is this a matron's plot? She has a good thing going here; I wonder what she'd exchange it for.
He also had a matron looking over his shoulder and demanding that spice must flow.
The guy is evil, there is no doubt about it, but he could be made to play ball. As I said before, I am fine with letting him live so long as he gets us an opportunity to fry the big fish, and leave the city at our own pace rather than flee fearing the revenge of the powerful.
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- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
1. Oh, I was speaking in terms of "what the drow would believe" not "what would we do"
2. I thought that there should be some sort of advantage to the governor here - basically I thought that was 'the deal' that was being offered at the end of the update.
- Location
- CT
[X] Goldfish
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Beyond the immediate advantage to the governor of the virtually priceless information, a 13th level Alchemist loyal (and I use that term extremely loosely) to his faction could be a significant boon to them.
That's assuming the dude survived the interrogation and it's aftermath, of course. I hope he doesn't, to be honest.
- Location
- St. Petersburg
I will back up asking about drow politics. Not only am I interested as a player, it seems relevant to the situation here, because the Alchemist (does he have a name?) clearly wishes to distance himself from his matron, and there might be different factions at work. I am still not sure why else the drow would organize an illegal trade with the surfacers (not an easy thing to do) and simultaneously sabotage it by sending murder-crazy goons and possibly plotting mayhem.
I also want a question if the Alchemist knows of anything of note that was supposed to go down in the next week. Ulenar implied something was being prepared for the royal visit, but I doubt drow have any interest in surface politics. If they were planning to get involved in any capacity, it's likely they were being used by someone else, and I dearly wish to know who.
He was prepping dust of appearance when we barged in; clearly they were getting ready for something.
I also want a question if the Alchemist knows of anything of note that was supposed to go down in the next week. Ulenar implied something was being prepared for the royal visit, but I doubt drow have any interest in surface politics. If they were planning to get involved in any capacity, it's likely they were being used by someone else, and I dearly wish to know who.
He was prepping dust of appearance when we barged in; clearly they were getting ready for something.
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Yeah, that's odd. It's one of the reasons I want to know what's going on back in his home city.
Drow are Chaotic Evil Demon worshipers, but they're functional ones able to maintain a complex society at the time same.
Shax isn't one of the Demon Lords who is compatible with that sort of organization, though. Them showing up means something bad is probably going on back home. Either the Houses are at war with one another and contrary orders are being issued, there is conflict within the House who sent these Drow (fighting over succession or internal power struggles, most likely), or direct commands from Shax or one of his subordinates has overridden the Drow's ability to maintain the status quo.
I think I've got the right questions in my plan to cover this, assuming the dude knows anything about it.
- Location
- St. Petersburg
This one? It's not as specific, but it doesn't much matter, I guess. We'll find out what we need to find out.
"Comrades". He made a deal to have them all killed, what do you think?
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I've clarified the questions a bit in my plan.This one? It's not as specific, but it doesn't much matter, I guess. We'll find out what we need to find out.
"Comrades". He made a deal to have them all killed, what do you think?
Doesn't hurt to be specific, just in case.
Massgamer
Advance toward the Future
- Location
- The Future
If nothing else the more info we have from him, the more we can use it to deal with other bad actors as well, so why not give him a leash? He will be the governor's problem in the end anyhow.
[X] Goldfish
@Goldfish can you add showing him drawing we made and seeing if he recognizes the person? Or tell him about the escape route that pirates used and where it might go?
[X] Goldfish
@Goldfish can you add showing him drawing we made and seeing if he recognizes the person? Or tell him about the escape route that pirates used and where it might go?
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You made him promise to kill him and the governor is a man of his word, if you want him dead when all this is done he's dead.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
The plan already includes asking about her.
The pirates escaped through derelict sewer tunnels. There are probably tons of them under the city given the age of the place. The chance he knows about any of them in general are low, and extremely unlikely that he knows of that particular tunnel.
We need to do that for sure but we can't do it today. Mina can't cast that spell using Wild Arcana since it takes too long to qualify. She'll need to prepare a Speak with Dead spell, so the earliest we can do that is after she has a chance to sleep and prepare new spells.
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- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
@Goldfish "If the Drow resists the Suggestion spell, Cob will kill him."
Doesn't Kori have a few level three spell slots left? Why not try up to two more times to cast Suggestion?
I don't think that there's any consequences to him saving against the spell beyond needing to try again.
Because I really want those answers, and that line just reads like giving when faced with a minor hurdle.
I'll vote for your plan if you change it to:
"If the Drow resists the Suggestion spell, Kori will try the spell up to three times. If he resists all attempts, Cob will kill him."
@DragonParadox How long is (in hours) it until we're expected to be at the leatherworkers to pay for and collect the slaves we ordered?
Edit: You haven't put in "Cob, Gorok and Pisca have readied actions to knock him unconscious if he refuses or looks to be up to something/trying to escape" about the time when we try to get him to agree to being Suggested.
I guess you think Cob should be enough. I think that he really should be enough. That's a reasonable assumption to make.
But things go wrong. Nat 1s happen. Also, it's not stated that there we intend for a 'Readied Action' to knock him out.
Doesn't Kori have a few level three spell slots left? Why not try up to two more times to cast Suggestion?
I don't think that there's any consequences to him saving against the spell beyond needing to try again.
Because I really want those answers, and that line just reads like giving when faced with a minor hurdle.
I'll vote for your plan if you change it to:
"If the Drow resists the Suggestion spell, Kori will try the spell up to three times. If he resists all attempts, Cob will kill him."
@DragonParadox How long is (in hours) it until we're expected to be at the leatherworkers to pay for and collect the slaves we ordered?
Edit: You haven't put in "Cob, Gorok and Pisca have readied actions to knock him unconscious if he refuses or looks to be up to something/trying to escape" about the time when we try to get him to agree to being Suggested.
I guess you think Cob should be enough. I think that he really should be enough. That's a reasonable assumption to make.
But things go wrong. Nat 1s happen. Also, it's not stated that there we intend for a 'Readied Action' to knock him out.
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Kori has two 3rd level spell slots remaining.
I'll have him make one attempt if Sirim's fails, but I don't want to waste both of his remaining 3rd level slots for the day.
As for picking up the slaves we ordered, that time has already come and gone. They were supposed to be delivered to the docks at dawn. We weren't there to accept the delivery, if Skali even tried to make the appointment after the Drow barge was raided shortly before dawn.
Two or so.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I don't think it's a waste, personally. This is worth using Kori's last spell imo, though I won't quibble on it.
[ ] Goldfish
(Edit: Change'd mind, am now intending to send Sirim and Cob out to the docks, and have Kori use up to both his level 3 slots to attempt to Suggest the drow)
------
Crudbuckets that we're late.
I'm vaguely hoping that they've been kept somewhere by the salvers in the hopes that we'll show up to actually carry out the deal, and then we can find out their location, go to the slaves, and then murder the people holding them.
Excuse for why we're late: Sirim is sent as messenger: "My master's divinations suddenly gave vague but dire omens regarding buying your wares this morning as intended, though it should be safe to proceed a half-day from now [time for long rest]. As you still procured them in the time requested and the delay caused by needs of safety was no fault of yours, my master will pay you in full when we have inspected them, with a small consideration for the unexpected need to store the inventory for a day and a half."
Cob goes with Sirim to provide hidden backup (to help him escape if need be: Sirim goes into a Haverstack, and then Cob can teleport if need be, run + hide, and then Alter Self.
They got embroiled in our schemes and we are thus responsible for them - while it's true that they were either already on a "get rid of list" or victims of opportunistic capturing, our increased demand on the illegal slave market means that we bear some of the responsibility for these people being taken, especially the opportunistically captured victims.
[I have like, 3 seperate ideas on what to do with them, and multiple ways of achieving those ideas percolating in my brain for the past few days, it'll be easy to sort them out]
---
Edit: So we're not too late. How long would it take Cob (disguised as a halfling) and Sirim (hidden on his person) to get there from where we are now?
I'm thinking Sirim could keep his Shadow Enchantment for a Bestow Insight: Bluff, to attempt the lie I outlined above, while Kori casts the Suggestion spells.
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