To Secure this Beachhead of Worker's Power: A Soviet Union Quest.

Voting is open for the next 4 days, 9 hours
[x][Priorities] Demand the Ukrainian Heartland
[x][Priorities] Request German industrial aid and capital goods
[x][Priorities] Reduce Reparations Payments


Narva is most valuable right where it is, as a buboe on the German empire in the east and as a possible entrepot into the German zone for red revolutionaries. If taken, it would at best be a very secondary port to Petrograd. Keeping it where it is is worth giving up Murmansk, in my view; the rail line to it was only completed last year, is likely of inferior quality, and is even more likely to have been sabotaged; so it would need repair even if it didn't need upgrading (which it does). We would likely not see major economic returns from Murmansk for at least a decade.

German guarantees in the Caucasus aren't worth the paper they're written on. Without German occupation of eastern Ukraine, and with the Porte reeling from the British occupation of Constantinople, the Germans have no real means of exerting influence in the area. At best they can act through Enver's Army of Islam, but again: Porte, reeling. What's more, I don't think the Bolshevik government would speak in terms of spheres of influence; they'd speak in terms of national self-determination (which in this case means supporting totally-indigenous-you-guys Red governments in the Caucasus republics, never mind the Red Army columns).

For the same reason, the only territorial demand I feel comfortable making is in western Ukraine, because east Ukraine's Red government is fairly well-established and all the German attempts at propping up right-wing governments in the west have gotten them nowhere. It doesn't hurt that the RSFSR would not be demanding territory for itself, but on behalf of its friends.

Rather than war-blasted territory, the best thing Russia can secure for itself is capital goods to strengthen its industrial productivity and as much control over such commodities as it produces as possible.

[x][Offers] Crimea, with an offensive
[x][Offers] Oil Rights in Baku


I'm most comfortable offering things we don't have, since it means we don't have to start giving them unless and until we get them. Crimea is a particularly easy giveaway, since the Germans have no means of garrisoning it without either passing through Ukraine or setting up a convoy from Varna (liable to get interdicted by the British). For exactly the same reason, it gives Germany no real strategic benefit; Germany can't get big ships into the Black Sea without forcing the British out of Constantinople, a thing of which it is not capable. A German Crimea would be as much a testicle we could squeeze as West Berlin was for Khrushchev. As for Baku oil, Donbas coal is a more important industrial fuel at the moment, and the Caucasus are in less of a position to make political headaches of themselves than Ukraine.

[x][America] Request formal recognition and the resumption of normal trade relations

What have we got to lose by trying? Bryan won't be around forever regardless, as all men must die.

[x][China] Remain uncommitted for now

On the other hand, China offers us little except perhaps a speculative market, and unlike Germany its right-wing government doesn't have us sufficiently over a barrel to demand concessions. Trotsky's not even operating in the Baikal region yet. We can afford to hold our cards close to our chests.

[x][LeftComs] Let them speak

I've given my view on this above.

[x][Agenda] First Soviet Census
[x][Agenda] Agricultural Potential Survey

I anticipate voting against the Firat Soviet census if it makes it onto the agenda, since we are far from controlling a lot of important population centers (everywhere in Central Asia, Transcaucasia, Transbaikalia, et al) and it will thus likely omit important information. We do, however, control most of the important agricultural lands either ourselves or through our alliance with the Ukrainians, and knowing what their productivity is is the first step towards rationalizing it. That said, I view this as basically seconding a motion, and both items are worthy of debate at least.
 
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[x][Priorities] Demand the Ukrainian Heartland
[x][Priorities] Request German industrial aid and capital goods
[x][Priorities] Reduce Reparations Payments
[x][Offers] Crimea, with an offensive
[x][Offers] Oil Rights in Baku
[x][America] Request formal recognition and the resumption of normal trade relations
[x][China] Remain uncommitted for now
[x][LeftComs] Let them speak


I'm convinced
 
[x][Priorities] Demand the Ukrainian Heartland
[x][Priorities] Request German industrial aid and capital goods
[x][Priorities] Reduce Reparations Payments
[x][Offers] Crimea, with an offensive
[X]Rights to the Donbas Coal Fields
[x][America] Request formal recognition and the resumption of normal trade relations
[x][China] Remain uncommitted for now
[X]Let them speak


Im mostly convinced expect for the Baku Oil,im too nervous of even slightly increasing Germany's chances of a successful alt-Kaiserschlacht they'll inevitably try to pull off,remember the Entente is in a much worse spot overall materially and militarily wise than OTL,even if a german breakthrough to Paris or anything similar is still very unlikely at this point in time,i don't want to risk it regardless.
 
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Im mostly convinced expect for the Baku Oil,im too nervous of even slightly increasing Germany's chances of a successful alt-Kaiserschlacht they'll inevitably try to pull off,remember the Entente is in a much worse spot overall materially and militarily wise than OTL,even if a german breakthrough to Paris or anything similar is still very unlikely at this point in time,i don't want to risk it regardless.
Historical Germany managed to build something like twenty A7Vs. Even if they increased production tenfold (which they won't; they're short on materials besides fuel, importantly iron), they still probably couldn't match Allied "landship" strength on the Western Front. And even if they did, A7Vs were crap even by the standards of the time.
 
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If I'm parsing the votes right, these are the current totals.

Asks
13 - Ports in the Far North and Baltics
16 - Demand the Ukrainian Heartland
15 - Reduce Reparations Payments
3 - Request German industrial aid and capital goods
1 - Secure German non-interference in the caucuses

Offers
13 - Rights to the Donbas Coal Fields
10 - Oil Rights in Baku
9 - Crimea, with an offensive

US
11 - Request formal recognition and the resumption of normal trade relations
6 - Seek Friendly Relations

China
13 - Remain uncommitted for now
1 - Recognize and support the KMT as China's legitimate government
1 - Send a proposal for mutual recognition to Qurui

Left SRs
10 - Let them speak
1 - Send them to aid Central Siberia

Since there were 17 voters and half of 17 is 8.5, we'll ask for all of the land we can get out of the Germans, as well as reducing our reparations payments, and then offer them purchase rights to our oil and coal fields as well as a promise to hand over the Crimeran Peninsula to them after we beat the Whites hanging on there.
 
[x][Priorities] Demand the Ukrainian Heartland
[x][Priorities] Request German industrial aid and capital goods
[x][Priorities] Reduce Reparations Payments
[x][Offers] Crimea, with an offensive
[x][Offers] Oil Rights in Baku
[x][America] Request formal recognition and the resumption of normal trade relations
[x][China] Remain uncommitted for now
[x][LeftComs] Let them speak
 
[x][Priorities] Demand the Ukrainian Heartland
[x][Priorities] Request German industrial aid and capital goods
[x][Priorities] Reduce Reparations Payments
[x][Offers] Crimea, with an offensive
[x][Offers] Rights to the Donbas Coal Fields
[x][America] Request formal recognition and the resumption of normal trade relations
[x][China] Remain uncommitted for now
[x][LeftComs] Let them speak
 
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[x][Priorities] Demand the Ukrainian Heartland
[x][Priorities] Request German industrial aid and capital goods
[x][Offers] Oil Rights in Baku
[x][America] Request formal recognition and the resumption of normal trade relations
[x][China] Recognize and support the KMT as China's legitimate government
[x][LeftComs] Let them speak


I don't feel comfortable giving up Crimea and I think we should support the KMT but aside from that good with the plan. I'm happy to drop reduced reparations payments because I don't think the Germans can beat the entente so we can get by with just not paying them probably
 
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[x][Priorities] Demand the Ukrainian Heartland
[x][Priorities] Request German industrial aid and capital goods
[x][Priorities] Reduce Reparations Payments
[x][Offers] Crimea, with an offensive
[x][Offers] Oil Rights in Baku
[x][America] Request formal recognition and the resumption of normal trade relations
[x][China] Recognize and support the KMT as China's legitimate government
[x][LeftComs] Let them speak
 
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[x][Priorities] Demand the Ukrainian Heartland
[x][Priorities] Request German industrial aid and capital goods
[x][Priorities] Reduce Reparations Payments
[x][Offers] Crimea, with an offensive
[x][Offers] Oil Rights in Baku
[x][America] Request formal recognition and the resumption of normal trade relations
[x][China] Remain uncommitted for now
[x][LeftComs] Let them speak


[x][Agenda] First Soviet Census
[x][Agenda] Agricultural Potential Survey

I would also like to ask, what's the status of Belarus?
 
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Guys we CANNOT GIVE THE GERMANS BOTH COAL AND OIL. They are the enemy, if they have a decisive victory they'll strangle a likely revolution.
[X] Plan Bread & Peace, British Peace Edition
 
[x][Priorities] Demand the Ukrainian Heartland
[x][Priorities] Request German industrial aid and capital goods
[x][Priorities] Reduce Reparations Payments
[x][Offers] Crimea, with an offensive
[x][Offers] Oil Rights in Baku
[x][America] Request formal recognition and the resumption of normal trade relations
[x][China] Remain uncommitted for now
[x][LeftComs] Let them speak


Guys we CANNOT GIVE THE GERMANS BOTH COAL AND OIL. They are the enemy, if they have a decisive victory they'll strangle a likely revolution.
Heres the thing tho, germany already has assloads of coal and by the time we get oil production in baku back to meaningful levels of output the war will be over one way or another.
 
[X] Plan Bread & Peace, British Peace Edition
The goals are good, let the SRs go to Siberia and get some experience
 
[X] Plan Bread & Peace, British Peace Edition
The goals are good, let the SRs go to Siberia and get some experience
People are aware the Left-Communists are Bolsheviks, right? That the Left-Coms and Left-SRs are two different groups entirely (and that the Left-SRs, along with the Left-Mensheviks, form the right wing of the government)?
 
[x][Priorities] Demand the Ukrainian Heartland
[x][Priorities] Request German industrial aid and capital goods
[x][Offers] Oil Rights in Baku
[x][America] Request formal recognition and the resumption of normal trade relations
[x][China] Recognize and support the KMT as China's legitimate government
[x][LeftComs] Let them speak
 
[x][Priorities] Demand the Ukrainian Heartland
[x][Priorities] Request German industrial aid and capital goods
[x][Priorities] Reduce Reparations Payments
[X]Rights to the Donbas Coal Fields
[x][America] Request formal recognition and the resumption of normal trade relations
[x][China] Remain uncommitted for now
[x][LeftComs] Let them speak
 
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[x][Priorities] Demand the Ukrainian Heartland
[x][Priorities] Request German industrial aid and capital goods
[x][Offers] Oil Rights in Baku
[x][America] Request formal recognition and the resumption of normal trade relations
[x][China] Recognize and support the KMT as China's legitimate government
[x][LeftComs] Let them speak


I'm...not certain why the Thread Consensus is on fucking over the KMT here. We should be acting as an operating base for the world revolution, which involves giving the KMT a place to hide, rest and retreat once the Far East is liberated. While the KMT isn't red at the moment, them having to base themselves in our nation, as well as their soldiers and officers recieving communist education at soviet military training facilites, will make them so quite quickly.
 
[X][Priorities] Demand the Ukrainian Heartland.
[X][Priorities] Request German industrial aid and capital goods.
[X][Priorities] Reduce Reparations Payments.
[X][Offers] Oil Rights in Baku.
[X][America] Request formal recognition and the resumption of normal trade relations.
[X][China] Recognize and support the KMT as China's legitimate government.
[X][LeftComs] Let them speak.

Communism-the strongest force in the universe.
 
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[X][Priorities] Demand the Ukrainian Heartland
[X][Priorities] Request German industrial aid and capital goods
[X][Offers] Oil Rights in Baku
[X][America] Request formal recognition and the resumption of normal trade relations
[X][China] Recognize and support the KMT as China's legitimate government
[X][LeftComs] Let them speak

We must create the foundations for a Red China.
 
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