Fair enough. My thinking was that if we don't intervene now, our Nevadan "comrades" collapse and Deseret pushes our starting front line far to the west. If we do intervene, we keep rolling east next turn and retake our water before the Mormons have time to take more ground or dig in.
From The Ashes of the Old: A Post-American Collapse Quest
- Thread starter Lazer Raptor
- Start date
Fair enough. My thinking was that if we don't intervene now, our Nevadan "comrades" collapse and Deseret pushes our starting front line far to the west. If we do intervene, we keep rolling east next turn and retake our water before the Mormons have time to take more ground or dig in.
- Location
- an unseen void
- Pronouns
- Any
You think we're not getting a bunch of people killed already? Pragmatic survival is what I'm worried about right now, balanced against the fervor of revolution, not an illusion of clean hands. Prison abolition only affects people who are in trouble. Family code affects every single person in the country. The latter is unavoidably a bigger scope.
So this is my second attempt at what might be more of a consensus plan:
[X] Putting Out Fires
-[X] Draft the New Family Code: As we have smashed the Old Guard, let us smash the patriarchal family to smithereens! A new world is dawning, and that means a new understanding of the family.
-[X] Re-staff the Ministries: As much as one might wish it to, revolutionary zeal does not replace experience. The loss of an incredible number of bureaucrats, specialists, etc, is a great blow to the UAPR, and you need to address this post-haste. Time to begin hiring, giving rewards to loyal specialists, and begin training new cadres to fulfill these duties.
-[X] Retake Lost Towns: We must liberate the towns that have fallen to the fascists with a fresh infusion of troops. If we can re-establish a perimeter perhaps we can crush this rebellion.
I've removed the Stalinist cosplay (as amusing as it is) for something that will hopefully mollify the YCL more, and mean we can then rein them in next turn without facing an internal coup. Hopefully our internal critics in the party don't decide to launch their own either.
Re-taking lost towns and fixing the basic infrastructure of the state seem like they're mandatory in the short term in my view; if we don't then we may not be a state for very longer. There's not a shortage of other people with guns eager to capitalise on our weaknesses if we can't administrate or defend our territory.
[X] Putting Out Fires
-[X] Draft the New Family Code: As we have smashed the Old Guard, let us smash the patriarchal family to smithereens! A new world is dawning, and that means a new understanding of the family.
-[X] Re-staff the Ministries: As much as one might wish it to, revolutionary zeal does not replace experience. The loss of an incredible number of bureaucrats, specialists, etc, is a great blow to the UAPR, and you need to address this post-haste. Time to begin hiring, giving rewards to loyal specialists, and begin training new cadres to fulfill these duties.
-[X] Retake Lost Towns: We must liberate the towns that have fallen to the fascists with a fresh infusion of troops. If we can re-establish a perimeter perhaps we can crush this rebellion.
I've removed the Stalinist cosplay (as amusing as it is) for something that will hopefully mollify the YCL more, and mean we can then rein them in next turn without facing an internal coup. Hopefully our internal critics in the party don't decide to launch their own either.
Re-taking lost towns and fixing the basic infrastructure of the state seem like they're mandatory in the short term in my view; if we don't then we may not be a state for very longer. There's not a shortage of other people with guns eager to capitalise on our weaknesses if we can't administrate or defend our territory.
- Location
- Somewhere in the area
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Intervening in Nevada means attacking the socialist rebels, not Deseret. There is no future where they do not collapse, only who is rolling in tanks when they do.
[X] Putting Out Fires
I'm well aware that the Nevadans are doomed, which is why I think an intervention is urgent. I'd like us to be the ones rolling in the tanks, not the reactionaries.
Oh, I mean there is a certain amount of that which is unfortunately just sort of "priced in" for the sort of quest this is and the situation we find ourselves in. But I think that abolishing prison, except for all of the POWs from rebel militia groups, the secret policemen, and mid level party-cadres and military brass we didn't shoot, political dissidents, YCL firebrands who have gone off the deep-end and want us to institute Hyper-Hoxhaism immediately, etc... There's the unavoidable bloody reality of politics at the sharp end in a young revolutionary state, and then there's a level of hypocrisy which simply makes me uncomfortable.
The New Family Code because of its sweeping nature is also more likely to be something which will take time, and also probably not affect all areas/populations at the same speed or in the same ways. We don't necessarily need to use storm troopers to enforce equal maternity and paternity leave, or recognising civil partnerships, etc..
I'm sure there are some more aspirational goals which go significantly farther than that, but there's some low-hanging fruit which should hopefully not take too much bloodshed, at least by comparison to everything else we're doing right now.
- Location
- Somewhere in the area
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Optics are better if we let the Mormons "win" before we sweep back in to clean up, as then it's a case of the UAPR saving the people of Nevada after their former (rebellious) leaders failed to, not the UAPR working together with the Mormons to crush the insurgent Nevadan socialists.
I think that if we intervene next turn, we get the best of both worlds, because the reactionaries will be weakened and over-extended, but the Nevadans will have been defeated. Then we could force a peace treaty with Deseret if we want to, on our terms, or continue to prosecute the war from a place of strength rather than having to fight on two fronts simultaneously.
[X] Putting Out Fires
Regency
PFP by vanathema (previously yubishines)
- Location
- Morioh Town, Mt. Ebbot
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I'm torn, restaffing the ministries now would most likely make future actions against the alleged anti-Mexican bias edit: harder to pursue. But there's a real risk of our military actions against Cascadian rebels this turn & Nevada next turn (if that's the order it shakes out) being suboptimal if we delay it to next turn.
Edit: Fuck it, we go survival mode.
[X] Putting Out Fires
Info from Lazer which I forgot to share is that YCL would slightly prefer New Family Codes over Prison Abolition, though they approve of both major reforms
Edit: Fuck it, we go survival mode.
[X] Putting Out Fires
Info from Lazer which I forgot to share is that YCL would slightly prefer New Family Codes over Prison Abolition, though they approve of both major reforms
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Editing in an approval vote for Putting Out Fires.
Upon further research (a few minutes of googling), it turns out that most of SoCal might be able to survive off water supplies from the Sierra Nevada for a while. It will require some amount of rationing, of the sort that the IRL United States doesn't have the political will to do but that the UAPR does.
San Diego and the Imperial Valley are cooked, though.
Upon further research (a few minutes of googling), it turns out that most of SoCal might be able to survive off water supplies from the Sierra Nevada for a while. It will require some amount of rationing, of the sort that the IRL United States doesn't have the political will to do but that the UAPR does.
San Diego and the Imperial Valley are cooked, though.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Putting Out Fires
- Location
- an unseen void
- Pronouns
- Any
Reluctantly approval voting, despite the avoidance of the youth issue, because this at least doesn't spend a slot on the bias investigation while everything is on fire.
[X] Putting Out Fires
[X] Plan: Contain the Youth
[X] Putting Out Fires
[X] Plan: Contain the Youth
To clarify, I think prison abolition could be interesting and could work eventually, in a phased program, maybe with a system of amnesties for prisoners of war and political prisoners similar to what has successfully* been demonstrated in Northern Ireland and Latin America. Just not like, whilst we're doing the political/military equivalent of having to try and build a working fire extinguisher out of an old bottle of Pepsi and random knick-knacks scattered around our house, whilst there's an grease fire in the kitchen, electrical fire in the bedroom, and also weasels are trying to bite us.
*(For a certain value of "successfully", nothing is perfect of course and this sort of thing has its limitations as everything does.)
*(For a certain value of "successfully", nothing is perfect of course and this sort of thing has its limitations as everything does.)
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Putting Out Fires
- Location
- Fort Worth, TX
[X] Plan: Contain the Youth
[X] Not One Step Back
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Defending and Realizing the Revolution
Regency
PFP by vanathema (previously yubishines)
- Location
- Morioh Town, Mt. Ebbot
- Pronouns
- They/Them
IRL Angela Davis is in favor of ending the death penalty.
@Lazer Raptor Would the prison abolition still entail the abolition of the death penalty which Davis is in favor of? That would certainly have interesting effects after questers made her execute her rivals, which then influenced how her allies (YCL, the junior officers-turned-top officers, & the California Party) mete out their justice
- Location
- IN SPACE
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It would officially outlaw the death penalty, but extrajudicial shootings won't instantly go away.
I know I struck out my original plan, but now that I'm not in a sleep deficit anymore I want to try my hand again:
[X] Plan: Discipline By Fire
[X] Draft the New Family Code
[X] Crush the Rebels in the West
[X] Purge Right-Deviationists from the Party
So, the rationale here is that the YCL wants to prove itself. Much as they were traitors to the revolution, many in the APA had experience/are able to commit to many fronts.
Letting the youth take their anger out on the Nevada rebels while simultaneously fighting the Mormons should help temper their fury and zeal. Meanwhile, drafting the new family code will allow them to finally break out of their previous generation's hold and allow them to have the families they want/desire. Purging the Right-Deviationists allows for an additional outlet for the YCL.
I understand Potato Anarchy's concern about the YCL's wings proving ineffectual long-term. However, I want to hold off on that for another turn so they can temper their ambitions with real-world experience. Should their performances prove dire, then rein them in.
Keeping my previous vote as an approval vote however.
[X] Plan: Discipline By Fire
[X] Draft the New Family Code
[X] Crush the Rebels in the West
[X] Purge Right-Deviationists from the Party
So, the rationale here is that the YCL wants to prove itself. Much as they were traitors to the revolution, many in the APA had experience/are able to commit to many fronts.
Letting the youth take their anger out on the Nevada rebels while simultaneously fighting the Mormons should help temper their fury and zeal. Meanwhile, drafting the new family code will allow them to finally break out of their previous generation's hold and allow them to have the families they want/desire. Purging the Right-Deviationists allows for an additional outlet for the YCL.
I understand Potato Anarchy's concern about the YCL's wings proving ineffectual long-term. However, I want to hold off on that for another turn so they can temper their ambitions with real-world experience. Should their performances prove dire, then rein them in.
Keeping my previous vote as an approval vote however.
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- Location
- Te Ika-a-Māui
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Putting Out Fires
Theaxofwar
Definitely not a Bunny Cat in disguise.
- Location
- Standing right behind you
[X] Putting Out Fires