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The Old World: Dark Age of the Empire

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[X] The Wolves
[X] The Marcher Companies
[X] A Pledge of Funding
[X] The First Halfling
[X] The Talisman of the Midden
[X] Aye

We need a strong victor in the first round.
It has been a thousand years of multiple Emperors, if we want to break that up, it needs to be decisive.
 
[X] The Wolves
[X] The Marcher Companies
[X] A Pledge of Funding
[X] The First Halfling
[X] The Talisman of the Midden
[X] Aye

It's not like he can just ignore us, considering how many people we gathered up to vote for him. He'll definitely give concessions if only because that's literally how realpolitik works.
 
TheGrape said:
It's not like he can just ignore us, considering how many people we gathered up to vote for him. He'll definitely give concessions if only because that's literally how realpolitik works.
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That is litteraly not how realpolitik works.

He wants a thing. We can give it to him. That is the leverage.
What is he willing to pay for it?

If we give it for free, why would he pay for it?
All our interactions with the man has shown him to be a man that only does things when he can benefit from it. He did not join our anti-vampire coalition without us having to give him major consessions. Why would we trust him to give us what we want now out of the goodness of his heart?

Also, giving him everything he wants for free in the HOPE that he will reciprocate without a negociated deal will absolutely tank our political reputation. It would show everyone that we are unable to play politics and unworthy of being granted a high office, like the Chanselorship.
 
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Niksol said:
That is litteraly not how realpolitik works.

He wants a thing. We can give it to him. That is the leverage.
What is he willing to pay for it?

If we give it for free, why would he pay for it?
All our interactions with the man has shown him to be a man that only does things when he can benefit from it. He did not join our anti-vampire coalition without us having to give him major consessions. Why would we trust him to give us what we want now out of the goodness of his heart?

Also, giving him everything he wants for free in the HOPE that he will reciprocate without a negociated deal will absolutely tank our political reputation. It would show everyone that we are unable to play politics and unworthy of being granted a high office, like the Chanselorship.
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???

Our boy already has a stellar reputation as someone who hates Chaos and the Undead and Orcs, having fought all of them in Stirland, here, and Wissenland. Our dude literally has Sigmarites wanting to back him despite having just broken away from Wissenland and not being a Sigmarite himself, because they like him that much. Now our man is gonna cement his reputation as someone who puts the Empire first, above his own desires. You think him voting to reunify an Empire divided by centuries of infighting, and being a crucial vote in doing so, is gonna diminish his rep? Alrighty then.

And it's not like being Emperor makes you an absolute ruler. If the Wolf Emperor shows himself to be an ungrateful ruler, he's not gonna get a lot of cooperation from anybody, and considering Vlad is gonna make him a priority target... his days would be numbered. And his heir probably wouldn't get the Throne either, if our bloc decides to back out due to his ingratitude. Negotiating beforehand is one way to get the chancellorship, but presenting a fait accompli that couldn't have been accomplished any other way is gonna put heavy pressure on him to find some way to reward Bismark.
 
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[X] The Imperialists
[X] The Defender of the Provinces
[X] A Consortium
[X] The Easy Concession
[X] The Talisman of Nuln
[X] Aye
 
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[X] The Imperialists
[X] The Defender of the Provinces
[X] A Consortium
[X] The Easy Concession
[X] The Talisman of Nuln
[X] Aye
 
[X] The Imperialists
[X] The Defender of the Provinces
[X] A Consortium
[X] The Easy Concession
[X] The Talisman of Nuln
[X] Aye
 
TheGrape said:
???

Our boy already has a stellar reputation as someone who hates Chaos and the Undead and Orcs, having fought all of them in Stirland, here, and Wissenland. Our dude literally has Sigmarites wanting to back him despite having just broken away from Wissenland and not being a Sigmarite himself, because they like him that much. Now our man is gonna cement his reputation as someone who puts the Empire first, above his own desires. You think him voting to reunify an Empire divided by centuries of infighting, and being a crucial vote in doing so, is gonna diminish his rep? Alrighty then.

And it's not like being Emperor makes you an absolute ruler. If the Wolf Emperor shows himself to be an ungrateful ruler, he's not gonna get a lot of cooperation from anybody, and considering Vlad is gonna make him a priority target... his days would be numbered. And his heir probably wouldn't get the Throne either, if our bloc decides to back out due to his ingratitude. Negotiating beforehand is one way to get the chancellorship, but presenting a fait accompli that couldn't have been accomplished any other way is gonna put heavy pressure on him to find some way to reward Bismark.
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Nope, sorry that is a very naive analysis.
If you are going to talk about realpolitik, you have to be more cynical.

Our supporters does not support us because "they like us" or because our "integrity". They do so because they seek power and security. There is a reason why all our deals with them are security related. Defence pacts. Armament deals.
They fear that an Ulrichan emperor will shift the powerbalance too far away from the sigmarites. They see supporting us as the best way to alleviate that fear. This is also the ground on which we have buildt our coalition. That was what we met the Arc-Lector about. If we betray the promises we made to our coalition and give the wolf all he wants without guarantees, we betray our coalition partners and tank our reputation.

And that fait accomli WOULD BE IN THE WOLF'S FAVOUR. It would say "well he is emperor now. Deal with it!". If you are going to use those words, please use them correctly.
Yes, if he wants to be emperor for long, he would have to appease us somewhat, but he will have to do that anyway. We have leverage now. Why give it away for free?
 
[X] The Imperialists
For now the Grand Theogonist is willing to work with you at Dunstigfurt, but his preference is to put you forward as Emperor.

[X] The Defender of the Provinces
You pledge to join a pact of mutual defence against Sylvanian antagonism, Hertwig pledges to support an Iron Emperor candidacy.

[X] A Consortium
Let Lutz bargain with the consortium of Nulner nobles, his vote has been bought by the Imperialists.

[X] The Easy Concession
The Moot will vote for Reikland in exchange for legal protections for Halflings in that Province.

[X] The Talisman of Nuln
You choose to cast a vote for the Iron Emperor.

[X] Aye
The Election must continue into a further week.

It's less the fact that we can win and become Emperor in the first round, rather that we can extract more concessions from the Wolf Emperor for the Second Round in order to support him and withdraw our candidacy.

Also, we have yet to even talk to Middenland, don't think it's a good idea to our support, and AP behind him without sufficient backing and concessions.
 
[X] The Imperialists
[X] The Defender of the Provinces
[X] A Consortium
[X] The Easy Concession
[X] The Talisman of Nuln
[X] Aye
 
If we bribe people now to vote for us, we can't just tell them to switch to the Wolf next round.

It's almost literally now or never.

Setting ourselves up as the Iron Emperor now means we have to go through with it, and likely bomb the Election entirely.
 
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Altom said:
@Warkeymon please confirm or deny this statement. It is absolutely crucial for this vote
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If the Election goes into a second week then you will be able to visit Electors and ask them to change their vote. The other candidates will do the same based on the votes in the first week. The first week's results will impact how easy or difficult it is to sway Electors in week 2.
 
Warkeymon said:
If the Election goes into a second week then you will be able to visit Electors and ask them to change their vote. The other candidates will do the same based on the votes in the first week. The first week's results will impact how easy or difficult it is to sway Electors in week 2.
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Many of the people we talk to want different bribes, depending on the vote going to us or Todbringer.

Can we switch those bribes too later, or will we be stuck with what we promise now?
 
Warkeymon said:
If the Election goes into a second week then you will be able to visit Electors and ask them to change their vote. The other candidates will do the same based on the votes in the first week. The first week's results will impact how easy or difficult it is to sway Electors in week 2.
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Wait question on the hypothetical that elections goes on to next week are we gonna have to use ap to roll again cause that would be important to know cause I don't want another round of ap hell while we could finish now and get the concessions we get and do some more stuff for the empire and our province.

Also I think the Wolf Emperor to know that rewarding the bloc that's strong enough to contest your own and instead of voting on themselves they instead joined in your bandwagon so it's in any good statesman and ruler to keep those folk happy and on your side i think the ar ulric who seems to be a good and smart fellow might be an important voice in that. Though if I'm ok if we are getting more concessions.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Many of the people we talk to want different bribes, depending on the vote going to us or Todbringer.

Can we switch those bribes too later, or will we be stuck with what we promise now?
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If you do not go back to them to renegotiate them you will need to keep the promise you've made. If you go back to them then you can renegotiate what you're offering and what you're asking. Going back on promises made in week one in week two would make discussions more difficult.

Watcher's Eyes said:
Wait question on the hypothetical that elections goes on to next week are we gonna have to use ap to roll again cause that would be important to know cause I don't want another round of ap hell while we could finish now and get the concessions we get and do some more stuff for the empire and our province.
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After this vote I'll finish out the turn. If a second week is voted for then you'll have eight dice to allocate to second week meetings, this will not come out of the next turn these are the same dice you've used for week one.
 
Warkeymon said:
After this vote I'll finish out the turn. If a second week is voted for then you'll have eight dice to allocate to second week meetings, this will not come out of the next turn these are the same dice you've used for week one.
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Well that's atleast confirmation that we aren't gonna go to ap hell next turn but now what do we do if we go next week we'll have to try and protect our bloc from being swayed and have to leave it with the dice again. Which I'm not really keen on but it could work.

Though hopefully this doesn't happen that if we do declare ourselves a candidate the wolf emperor could think we are too dangerous and not even try to talk with us and instead subvert our bloc members to their side cause I mean from the looks of it he's quite good at diplomacy and politicking which both good as a ruler and bad when we are trying to one up him. Though hopefully he'll see reason and go to us and then we can ask for concessions.

Though that sure will annoy the imperialist but hopefully they'll be mollified by our position as chancellor.
 
[X] The Wolves
[X] The Marcher Companies
[X] A Pledge of Funding
[X] The First Halfling
[X] The Talisman of the Midden
[X] Aye
 
Let's not risk a chance of unifying the Empire 300 years early.

If the Wolf has any sense, he will listen to a group that makes up half or more of his support.

If not, well Vlad will come back and the next years will be immensely dangerous for any Emperor, especially a warrior-leader like him...
 
[X] The Imperialists
[X] The Defender of the Provinces
[X] A Consortium
[X] The Easy Concession
[X] The Talisman of Nuln
[X] Aye

I want Todd to be the Emporer so he can take the beat down from Vlad for us, but I say we pressure Tod by running for Emporer to coerce him into courting us and make him acknowledge the Sigmirate bloc as a real thing he needs to contend with so we can get more concessions (aka council positions) from him even if we have to make more bribes in the process.
 
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We are setting ourselves up for failure by letting people vote for us as Emperor.

What if nay wins and there is no second vote?
What if the people we bribe to vote for us won't switch to the Wolf on our say-so?
What if Todbringer starts seeing us as a rival instead of a powerful supporter?
What if Vlad recovers quickly enough to try something at the Election next week?

Don't try for maximum concessions, when the very existance of the Empire is at stake.

If there is one Empire with one Emperor, as an established fact in the minds of people, then there is a chance we, or our son, or our grandson might be Emperor some day.
If there is no Empire, then there is no such chance.

We have one chance now, to set an example of a successful election, if we fail, there might not be one until Magnus the Pious.
 
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