A Life of Coin. (A Warhammer Fantasy Mercenary Quest)

Come to think of it, we could go pretty cheap by forming a 2 rank deep formation. 1st rank has chain mail (plate cuirass in our pipe dreams) spears and shields, while the 2nd rank has gambeson and uses spears with both hands so they can attack from the 2nd rank.

It's not as flexible as the current build due to a complete lack of ranged firepower except for Sunna, but it should be very survivable in melee. Skirmishers will mess us up however.

LucidProp said:

Come to think of it, we could go pretty cheap by forming a 2 rank deep formation. 1st rank has chain mail (plate cuirass in our pipe dreams) spears and shields, while the 2nd rank has gambeson and uses spears with both hands so they can attack from the 2nd rank.

It's not as flexible as the current build due to a complete lack of ranged firepower except for Sunna, but it should be very survivable in melee. Skirmishers will mess us up however.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

that's not a bad idea, spears don't provide a bonus unless you use both hands. So a line 1 of shields and maces/polearms + a line 2 of spears would be quite brutal.

However I do think that makes us more of a "line army" which in the short term I assume most of our tasks will be guarding stuff where we will have to skirmish with bandits or jump on beastmen.

It's tricky really cuz I have no clue what our first contract is, I'll be made a fool of if our first contract is "guard this mine from oversized rats" and it is an environment where we stand shoulder to shoulder lol, perfect for a spearline.

Spore said:

that's not a bad idea, spears don't provide a bonus unless you use both hands. So a line 1 of shields and maces/polearms + a line 2 of spears would be quite brutal.

However I do think that makes us more of a "line army" which in the short term I assume most of our tasks will be guarding stuff where we will have to skirmish with bandits or jump on beastmen.

It's tricky really cuz I have no clue what our first contract is, I'll be made a fool of if our first contract is "guard this mine from oversized rats" and it is an environment where we stand shoulder to shoulder lol, perfect for a spearline.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Being flexible for many scenarios is a lot more important right now than being really good at one type of mission since we can't be picky with our jobs right now.

Later on, once we have more people and funds, we could try the idea out for our speed bump spearmen.

Thinking about the double ranks idea motivated me to try and math out how much it would actually cost. Since we want some flexibility, I'm keeping our Skirmishers and Elites mostly the same.

Double Ranks, Chainmail Variant:

• Spearwall Total Cost: 1,256 Sh
  • 8 Recruits
    • 8 Warhammers = 48 Sh
    • 8 Shields = 32 Sh
    • 8 Chain and Mail = 960 Sh
  • 8 Recruits
    • 8 Spears = 24 Sh
    • 8 Gambesons = 192 Sh
• Elites Total Cost: 1,158 Sh
  • Captain of the Band, and Seargent Friedhelm Stocker
    • 2 Warhammers = 12 Sh
    • 2 Shields = 6 Sh
    • 2 Chain and Mail = 240 Sh
  • 5 Recruits
    • 5 Halberds = 300 Sh
    • 5 Chain and Mail = 600 Sh
• Skirmishers Total Cost: 1,996 Sh
  • Sanna Lutze
    • 100 Shot = 500 Sh
    • 1 Chain and Mail = 120 Sh
  • 4 Recruits
    • 4 Crossbows = 1,200 Sh
      • 200 Bolts = 80 Sh
    • 4 Gambesons = 96 Sh

Current Funds: 5,100 Sh
Total Cost: 4,410 Sh
Remaining Funds: 690 Sh
Monthly Upkeep: 570 Sh
Turns until Bankruptcy: 1.21 Turn

---

Double Ranks, Gambeson Variant:

• Spearwall Total Cost: 488 Sh
  • 8 Recruits
    • 8 Warhammers = 48 Sh
    • 8 Shields = 32 Sh
    • 8 Gambesons = 192 Sh
  • 8 Recruits
    • 8 Spears = 24 Sh
    • 8 Gambesons = 192 Sh
• Elites Total Cost: 1,158 Sh
  • Captain of the Band, and Seargent Friedhelm Stocker
    • 2 Warhammers = 12 Sh
    • 2 Shields = 6 Sh
    • 2 Chain and Mail = 240 Sh
  • 5 Recruits
    • 5 Halberds = 300 Sh
    • 5 Chain and Mail = 600 Sh
• Skirmishers Total Cost: 1,996 Sh
  • Sanna Lutze
    • 100 Shot = 500 Sh
    • 1 Chain and Mail = 120 Sh
  • 4 Recruits
    • 4 Crossbows = 1,200 Sh
    • 200 Bolts = 80 Sh
    • 4 Gambesons = 96 Sh

Current Funds: 5,100 Sh
Total Cost: 3,642 Sh
Remaining Funds: 1,458 Sh
Monthly Upkeep: 570 Sh
Turns until Bankruptcy: 2.56 Turns

The main advantage of this build is that our frontline becomes much sturdier and deadlier in the case of the Chainmail variant. However, it proved too expensive since we'll go bankrupt in 1 month with it.

Instead, I switched the first rank's armor to Gambeson to save on costs. That way, our 8 men wide and 2 ranks deep formation maintains its extra deadliness since the 1st rank can engage the enemy with the support of the 2nd rank.

We still maintain the flexibility we need for our mercenary band thanks to the presence of our Elites and Skirmishers, though it does have one less Crossbowman admittedly, while also improving the survivability of our frontline by dint of making it easier to kill things before our nerds can be killed in turn. This should also help them better serve their role of buying our Elites and Skirmishers time to do their work.

Surprisingly, the Gambeson variant is also slightly cheaper than the leading plan (3,642 Sh vs 3,852 Sh), so that's a neat bonus.

[] Plan: Mace to the Face, Spears strike Apace
-[] Group 1: Led by the Captain and composed of 15 Recruits. All Recruits are armored in Gambeson, and the Captain himself is in Chain and Mail. The 1st rank of 7 Recruits along with the Captain is armed with Warhammers and Shields, while the 2nd rank of 8 Recruits is armed with spears wielded with both hands in order to strike from behind the 1st rank.
-[] Group 2: Elites led by the Sargent. He's armored in Chain and Mail and comes equipped with a Warhammer and a Shield. The remaining 5 Recruits serve as both bodyguards and elite troops, armed with Halberds and protected by Chain and Mail in order to deal with heavier targets.
-[] Group 3: Skirmishers and Sanna Lutze. The latter is armored in Chain and Mail and comes supplied with 100 Shot to feed her handgun, while the former are 4 Recruits armored in Gambeson and armed with Crossbows with 200 Bolts to share between them.

So far this is the voter spread!

I'd like to change my vote to
[X] Mace to face, spears strike Apace

bit more flexibility in my mind, I doubt we run into anything that wears armor but hopefully we don't lose men from not having the range advantage with spears. Then again, properly trained we could be a deadly little mixed force.

It may be too late to advocate for another plan since most of us have voted already, but I would like to emphasize that "Mace to the Face, Spears Strike Apace" is not only slightly cheaper than "Spears, Shields, Crossbows and Elites", but still just as flexible tactically while also improving the survivability and deadliness of our mercenary company.

This is mainly thanks to our 2 rank formation of spears and maces. The first rank are equipped with shields to help absorb bow fire which is ubiquitous among Beastmen and Goblins, and their warhammers ensure that anything that's tough and armored enough to close beyond our spear points can be dealt with by the warhammers' anti-armor properties.

At the same time, the 2nd rank with their spears are able to ward away lightly armored foes thanks to their extra reach and potentially contribute towards killing anything that closes with the 1st rank. The morale effect this will have on our raw recruits can't be understated, since their confidence will really be helped by the fact that they can kill things much, much quicker than they otherwise would be able too. This makes the 1st Group ideal for holding or advancing on a position and buying our skirmishers time to shoot the enemy to bits.

In terms of killing the enemy, keeping our people alive, and saving a bit more money, this does feel like the superior option. It's only deficiency compared to the leading plam is having 1 less Crossbowman which I think is more than a fair trade for what we're getting.

[X] Mace to face, spears strike Apace

[X] Purchase Plan Spears, Shields, Crossbows and Elites

[X] Plan: Mace to the Face, Spears strike Apace

[X] Mace to face, spears strike Apace

Another factor I forgot to mention is that a deeper formation is necessary for our raw recruits. To maximize our DPS with 15 shielded light spearmen, you'd ideally want all 15 in a single line that wraps around the enemy formation. However, they don't have the spine nor the equipment to keep the line from breaking even if they start off as a deep formation whose back ranks then envelope the enemy. Essentially, the front rank will have to fight alone since our spears lack reach when coupled with a shield, and I don't believe our troops are trained enough to pull off rank rotations like the Romans did.

By starting as two lines of recruits, we recieve the benefit of stiffening the line and our troops' morale, while also making sure to maximize our ability to do damage since the back rank are able to jab at the enemy with their spears while the front rank protects them with shields and bashes people with warhammers. In case we need to widen the front or prevent a flank, that's what our armored Elites are for.

[X] Plan: Mace to the Face, Spears strike Apace

Ooooh another plan. Good stuff.

I still believe more range and a more flexible formation of more heavily armoured men is better. We can't really make a "line" with only 25 men especially when we are guarding a moving object or a person (oh I suppose if we're guarding 1 person we could)

I don't think we'll be able to make a double width spear line around a cart let alone 2 or 3 carts

I think early merc combat has to be approached from a skirmish pov which is where range fire-power and more independent elites with a small core of damage and attention soakers will excel at.

Basically I don't really believe we'll have the opportunity to be in formation when we are marching down a forested road or dirt track. Even defence duty or protecting a merchant we'll be more spread-out than in a unit blob. And I think the over watch from crossbows will help there.

Spore said:

Ooooh another plan. Good stuff.

I still believe more range and a more flexible formation of more heavily armoured men is better. We can't really make a "line" with only 25 men especially when we are guarding a moving object or a person (oh I suppose if we're guarding 1 person we could)

I don't think we'll be able to make a double width spear line around a cart let alone 2 or 3 carts

I think early merc combat has to be approached from a skirmish pov which is where range fire-power and more independent elites with a small core of damage and attention soakers will excel at.

Basically I don't really believe we'll have the opportunity to be in formation when we are marching down a forested road or dirt track. Even defence duty or protecting a merchant we'll be more spread-out than in a unit blob. And I think the over watch from crossbows will help there.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Fair point on the Crossbows. I think I have a solution for that actually.

Transfer the SGT to the spear line to serve as its officer and help morale. It's dangerous, but we've armored him as heavily as we can and it's what we pay him for. That then frees 1 person up to be a Crossbowman, so that we don't suffer any loss in skirmish capability.

That said, the problem with not fighting in a formation is that our dudes will die real fast if they don't. Our recruits can't really stack up well to a Gor, much less a Orc in 1v1, and Ungors and Goblins who they can easily beat solo come in numbers. Those are the threats we'll likely face here, and not being able to fight in formation is a death sentence for both scenarios.

While it's true that getting in formation when marching down a road is difficult, I do think it's something our troops can be drilled for since we have two veteran state troopers here who would have experience on what the proper response to a road ambush should be. A troop of 8 people on both sides of a wagon for example, 4 spears and 4 warhammers with shields, should be able to form up quickly on both sides if they're drilled to do so, with elites who step in to help close gaps wherever they form. The alternative is letting them fight scattered and without a coherent line which wouldn't last long, and would compromise our fire support immediately.

If we're guarding a bigger convoy of multiple carts, then I think it's fair to assume we won't be alone since 25 people aren't really enough to cover all that regardless of their composition.

Double post but I've made changes made to the plan. It became slightly more expensive, but we're still within a 2-turn timeline before we end up bankrupt. This way, we've preserved our skirmish capability while still retaining the benefits of our frontline.

Mace to the Face:

• Spearwall Total Cost: 604 Sh
  • Sergent Friedhelm Stocker
    • 1 Warhammer = 6 Sh
    • 1 Shield = 4 Sh
    • 1 Chain and Mail = 120 Sh
  • 7 Recruits
    • 7 Warhammers = 42 Sh
    • 7 Shields = 48 Sh
    • 7 Gambesons = 168 Sh
  • 8 Recruits
    • 8 Spears = 24 Sh
    • 8 Gambesons = 192 Sh
• Elites Total Cost: 1,030 Sh
  • Captain of the Band
    • 1 Warhammers = 6 Sh
    • 1 Shield = 4 Sh
    • 1 Chain and Mail = 120 Sh
  • 5 Recruits
    • 5 Halberds = 300 Sh
    • 5 Chain and Mail = 600 Sh
• Skirmishers Total Cost: 2,320 Sh
  • Sanna Lutze
    • 100 Shot = 500 Sh
    • 1 Chain and Mail = 120 Sh
  • 5 Recruits
    • 5 Crossbows = 1,500 Sh
    • 200 Bolts = 80 Sh
    • 5 Gambesons = 120 Sh

Current Funds: 5,100 Sh
Total Cost: 3,954 Sh
Remaining Funds: 1,146 h
Monthly Upkeep: 570 Sh
Turns until Bankruptcy: 2.01 Turns

LucidProp said:

[X] Plan: Mace to the Face, Spears strike Apace
-[X] Group 1: Led by Sergent Stocker and composed of 15 Recruits. All Recruits are armored in Gambeson, and the Sergent himself is in Chain and Mail. The 1st rank of 7 Recruits along with the Sergent is armed with Warhammers and Shields, while the 2nd rank of 8 Recruits is armed with spears wielded with both hands in order to strike from behind the 1st rank.
-[X] Group 2: Elites led by the Captain. He's armored in Chain and Mail and come equipped with Warhammers and Shields. The remaining 5 Recruits serve as both bodyguards and elite troops, armed with Halberds and protected by Chain and Mail in order to deal with heavier targets.
-[X] Group 3: Skirmishers and Sanna Lutze. The latter is armored in Chain and Mail and comes supplied with 100 Shot to feed her handgun, while the former are 4 Recruits armored in Gambeson and armed with Crossbows with 200 Bolts to share between them.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

While I understand the desire for range @Spore, and I share them let's go over the general duties most likely to face us. These are what I think are most likely and having the internal flexibility to fight double lined or split into a bit looser shows it's viability. First we get about a monthish to train, should be enough for them to hold, not panic terribly and probably not die. Moreover, clumping the men together will likely get a small morale boost, lot harder to justify running when the men next to you will die if you do. A lot more likely to be willing to stand and fight when you have a centralized unit.

1. Escort. Merchants pay us to escort cargo, low-mid risk assuming standard stuff we should be able to form up with proper warning (only a fool doesn't scout). If we do get ambushed but in that case we are probably screwed if we don't get in formation.
2. Reinforcements. We aren't big enough to hold the line or provide a real difference, in which case rear-guard and flank guard. Mobility and density favor us, hard point that calvary can't get in, infantry can't break it either with 2 lines.
3. Guard duty, boring but gives us the chance to train, but will probably lose money doing it.

Realistically we are just too small of a group to specialize so we must diversify, I would like more ranged but to do it with such a small group leaves them vunerable to attack. Odds are any job where there is a good chance we do see combat we get folded in, underneath another merc company under contract, we will be asked to follow their orders as long as they aren't suicidal orders we will be expected to.

Edit: @LucidProp, I'm digging the revision. A sergeant in the line should stiffen it enough to hold, our formation will be key against nearly any foe at this point

I really don't like the idea of sending our dude who is the only person capable of training our troops into combat.

I understand glory, honour and keeping morale high but if we lose him we lose our task master uhm we ourselves are just a rich (talented) sellsword who gave up on the whole gig and now run a business.

That Sargent is really important to keep alive and healthy. All entities seem to have stats in this game and characters with names are separate entities. I'd like to keep them alive safe and in our officer core in the centre of our force but not in the frontlines

Spore said:

I really don't like the idea of sending our dude who is the only person capable of training our troops into combat.

I understand glory, honour and keeping morale high but if we lose him we lose our task master uhm we ourselves are just a rich (talented) sellsword who gave up on the whole gig and now run a business.

That Sargent is really important to keep alive and healthy. All entities seem to have stats in this game and characters with names are separate entities. I'd like to keep them alive safe and in our officer core in the centre of our force but not in the frontlines

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

It's either the Sergent or the Captain, but someone is going to need to be with the raw recruits at the front to make sure they don't break or freeze when combat starts. There's a reason why generals used to ride at the front instead of sitting back after all.

That said, I agree that the Sargent is really valuable, and we can't risk losing him, but we've armored him as best as we can with a shield, Chain Mail, and fighting in formation. I checked his stats and compared it with ours to see who's more suitable for the role:


In conclusion, the Sargent is much better suited to melee than us since he has 4 Weapon Skill to our 3, and 2 Attacks to our 1. The only stat the Captain is superior at is our 3 initiative to the Sargent's 2, and potentially leadership since the Sargent's is unknown. Despite his age, the Sargent is just as tough as the much younger Captain, and his age only really shows in his lower initiative score.

While you'd think this makes the Sargent better suited for the job of keeping the frontline from collapsing, I think his 65 Tactics to our 55 Tactics actually makes him better suited to the role of deciding when and where to commit our Elites and directing the fire of our Skirmishers. Additionally, the Captain has a Intimidate skill of 35 which the Sargent completely lacks.

This is relevant because we might potentially be able to use that Intimidate skill to make sure the raw recruits are much more afraid of our ire if they run than they are afraid of the enemy. It risks the Captain instead of the Sargent of course, but the Captain is a younger man and should be able to recover from injury faster than the Sargent in the event that all his defenses (Shield, Chainmail, Formation) fail him.

I'll be going ahead and changing the plan to accommodate this.

Mace to the Face:

• Spearwall Total Cost: 604 Sh
  • Captain of the Band
    • 1 Warhammer = 6 Sh
    • 1 Shield = 4 Sh
    • 1 Chain and Mail = 120 Sh
  • 7 Recruits
    • 7 Warhammer = 42 Sh
    • 7 Shields = 48 Sh
    • 7 Gambesons = 168 Sh
  • 8 Recruits
    • 8 Spears = 24 Sh
    • 8 Gambesons = 192 Sh
• Elites Total Cost: 1,030 Sh
  • Sergent Friedhelm Stocker
    • 1 Warhammers = 6 Sh
    • 1 Shield = 4 Sh
    • 1 Chain and Mail = 120 Sh
  • 5 Recruits
    • 5 Halberds = 300 Sh
    • 5 Chain and Mail = 600 Sh
• Skirmishers Total Cost: 2,320 Sh
  • Sanna Lutze
    • 100 Shot = 500 Sh
    • 1 Chain and Mail = 120 Sh
  • 5 Recruits
    • 5 Crossbows = 1,500 Sh
    • 200 Bolts = 80 Sh
    • 5 Gambesons = 120 Sh

Current Funds: 5,100 Sh
Total Cost: 3,954 Sh
Remaining Funds: 1,146 h
Monthly Upkeep: 570 Sh
Turns until Bankruptcy: 2.01 Turns

[X] Plan: Mace to the Face, Spears strike Apace
-[X] Group 1: Led by the Captain and composed of 15 Recruits. All Recruits are armored in Gambeson, and the Captain himself is in Chain and Mail. The 1st rank of 7 Recruits along with the Captain is armed with Warhammers and Shields, while the 2nd rank of 8 Recruits is armed with spears wielded with both hands in order to strike from behind the 1st rank.
-[X] Group 2: Elites led by the Sargent. He's armored in Chain and Mail and comes equipped with a Warhammer and a Shield. The remaining 5 Recruits serve as both bodyguards and elite troops, armed with Halberds and protected by Chain and Mail in order to deal with heavier targets.
-[X] Group 3: Skirmishers and Sanna Lutze. The latter is armored in Chain and Mail and comes supplied with 100 Shot to feed her handgun, while the former are 4 Recruits armored in Gambeson and armed with Crossbows with 200 Bolts to share between them.

Mercenaries absolutely specialize. IRL even, when you hire mercs you hire particular parts of them or ask them to do X job and they call up peeps based on what they need done. Back then, you would hire like... a band of cavalry or shields and spears etc.

Also, consider what message the equipment sends. Pikes are terrifying when set up, and send a clear "This is a problem" message when there's tons lining up on a field. Peeps in history have been known for literally filling the sky with so many arrows it blots out the sun- that's demoralizing to any enemy- and if they don't have proper shielding they are fucked. Shields distract the enemy trying to think of work arounds, guns make them not want to approach or be directly in front/bunched up etc.
Pikes are also great if you have a history of impaling people. Guns show wealth, if met with a fuck ton of them they will hesitate twice- once for the sheer stopping power second for like "wtf else can they afford should we even try". Shields show tactical strategy. Swords show skill. ETc

Also, if we train up gun girl we can start a reputation for her and thus us. It'll also make her a target if she is able to pick off important enemies.
Can also build a rep for us and grandpa sarge.

[X] Plan: Mace to the Face, Spears strike Apace
-[X] Group 1: Led by the Captain and composed of 15 Recruits. All Recruits are armored in Gambeson, and the Captain himself is in Chain and Mail. The 1st rank of 7 Recruits along with the Captain is armed with Warhammers and Shields, while the 2nd rank of 8 Recruits is armed with spears wielded with both hands in order to strike from behind the 1st rank.
-[X] Group 2: Elites led by the Sargent. He's armored in Chain and Mail and comes equipped with a Warhammer and a Shield. The remaining 5 Recruits serve as both bodyguards and elite troops, armed with Halberds and protected by Chain and Mail in order to deal with heavier targets.
-[X] Group 3: Skirmishers and Sanna Lutze. The latter is armored in Chain and Mail and comes supplied with 100 Shot to feed her handgun, while the former are 4 Recruits armored in Gambeson and armed with Crossbows with 200 Bolts to share between them.

Don't forget we can buy people offhand weapons in the future.

Merged the votes together. Plan Spears leads with 11 votes, while Plan Mace has 8 votes.

[X] Plan: Mace to the Face, Spears strike Apace

Because i like ties

My last final argument will be, by not giving everyone shields we will be ripped apart by any ranged weapons if we don't make the spearline and even if we do a *lot* of the creatures we find in the woods use arrows, slings and javelins. I believe survivability is more important than a more brutal spearline. We can rally together in a group in my build.

Remember we barely got 25 men in one of the largest and most busy cities in the empire, and any equipment we don't buy now is equipment we might not be able to get in other towns with smaller blacksmiths and limited facilities.

I think every man needs as much defence as possible and that is shields for all, chainmail for as many as reasonable and as much range fire power as possible so we can avoid risk, harm and damage.

Survivability is key at the start, and I believe that begins with everyone having a shield to not be ripped apart by beastmen arrows.

Spore said:

My last final argument will be, by not giving everyone shields we will be ripped apart by any ranged weapons if we don't make the spearline and even if we do a *lot* of the creatures we find in the woods use arrows, slings and javelins. I believe survivability is more important than a more brutal spearline. We can rally together in a group in my build.

Remember we barely got 25 men in one of the largest and most busy cities in the empire, and any equipment we don't buy now is equipment we might not be able to get in other towns with smaller blacksmiths and limited facilities.

I think every man needs as much defence as possible and that is shields for all, chainmail for as many as reasonable and as much range fire power as possible so we can avoid risk, harm and damage.

Survivability is key at the start, and I believe that begins with everyone having a shield to not be ripped apart by beastmen arrows.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Assuming we're ambushed along the road, none of our guys will have their shields up in time before they get shot. If we get in formation, it's true that everyone having shields is superior at resisting arrow fire, but the mixed approach isn't completely defenseless either as with a tight formation, the shielded 1st rank can protect the 2nd rank.

The best way to keep skirmishers from killing is by warding them away with cavalry. Absent that, both our plans have equal amounts of crossbowmen to shoot back at them.

It's a trade off between survivability in melee vs survivability at range. It's true that Beastmen, Norscans, and Goblins make plenty use of ranged weapons, but they're also famed for brutal charges. Considering how archers and such are historically more about disruption and harrassment than killing, most of our casualties I believe will be produced in the melee and then the route after the line breaks rather than during the skirmish. In this case, a deadlier line where the back ranks also contribute to the fight is superior at keeping our people alive since it can resist a charge of infantry better.