Finding the Spark (Pathfinder 1E Quest)

But the prompt says truthfully? I mean, how could we talk about omens without lying?

EDIT: lying is about double crossing the prince?
 
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Even if we end up refusing to help with this, it doesn't hurt to get more information from the prince first. Who knows, making him answer the questions out loud rather than inside his own head might convince him his plan is stupid.

Wisdom might not be his dump stat of choice.
 
I suppose it's fair. Kid gets one chance to passively reconsider . If he doesn't, I am up for doing this.

[x] Ask the prince to clarify exactly what his relationship with Cysenthia is. How did they meet, when and where, how long ago? Does she know of his impending wedding?
-[x] What are the political implications for himself and his people if he breaks the engagement at this stage? Will doing so make enemies of the Usena? Will he be banished, or worse? Could his actions here cause war between their peoples?
 
[x] Ask the prince to clarify exactly what his relationship with Cysenthia is. How did they meet, when and where, how long ago? Does she know of his impending wedding?
-[x] What are the political implications for himself and his people if he breaks the engagement at this stage? Will doing so make enemies of the Usena? Will he be banished, or worse? Could his actions here cause war between their peoples?
 
What does kori think the odds of some dark power or evil God passing by and making his prophecy real is?

He is not really an expert on gods, but he figures that if he makes it something that would take significant effort to enact it probably will not happen. After all a god is just a big spirit right? Their powers like their attention must be limited and it's not like one of them has a particular interest in messing with him *looks down at shadow* messing with him in novel ways at least.
 
Its crazy... but lets hear details before assuming anything. This could be two kids honestly in love.

[X] Goldfish
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Apr 30, 2024 at 3:55 AM, finished with 32 posts and 8 votes.

  • [X] Ask the prince to clarify exactly what his relationship with Cysenthia is. How did they meet, when and where, how long ago? Does she know of his impending wedding?
    -[X] What are the political implications for himself and his people if he breaks the engagement at this stage? Will doing so make enemies of the Usena? Will he be banished, or worse? Could his actions here cause war between their peoples?
    [X] Refuse, this is madness
 
Arc 6 Post 17: A Tale of Two Worlds
A Tale of Two Worlds

8th of Lamashan 4707 A.R. (Absalom Reckoning)

Impassioned as the prince's words might be they leave you with questions, a lot of questions starting with the knight's feelings and ending with how likely this is to cause war. It's one thing to stain your hands with the blood of someone you can look in the eye and whose corpse one's planning to put to flame, quite another to leave sparks trailing in one's wake. That's just asking to be burned yourself and all you love right beside it.

"Three years past near the height of of Midsummer there was a battle on these waters between ships flying the red and black pendant of the House of Thrune for protection as they crossed near Andoran, though I knew not one from the other in those days save the tales of the elders, the breaking of the Arch and the gifting of the stone that was taken east of here to Almas. It was important they said that the western landwalkers not take over from the eastern, but I didn't know why. I had not heard the groans of the enslaved as they were forced to draw the oars, the snap of the whip. I dared not come too close and I hid my face from the gaze of the black-armored Hellknights had it not been for the other ships. Two there were, coming under cover of near moonless night and flying no flag but a piece of sail-cloth stained red. They slammed into the first and the second ship of the convoy, planning to take them by force of arms even if it cost them their own vessels. I did not know then but I do know now that they were anticipating an attack from these foul 'knights'... the Order of the Pyre they are called and they would have put all of them to flame for the attackers were all escaped slaves fighting their own small war against those who had enslaved them. The Lordship-that-Has-No-Lords in Almas would not send their own soldiers against them for their sympathy lay with them, but neither would they send a fleet to protect those who did not place themselves under Andoran law. So the Chelish sent their Pyre Knights to recover 'fugitives'... they did not seem to be running to me. They seemed to be doing a good job taking the first two ships and it seemed that the third would turn at bay and flee, but then the devils came, four of them."

The boy's sea-green eyes turn haunted as though, looking over some distant scene in his mind. "Furies, they were called beautiful and terrible and cruel on blood-feather wigs. They hurled curses in to the melee and the freedmen withered while the devil bound cheered, where they saw one who was bold and lead the defense they would snare them with black chains and pull them up, cut them open and then hurl them into the sea still bleeding. I couldn't save more than one, I couldn't... even if the devils and the Chelish didn't finish off the people in the water the sharks surely would, but I pulled the nearest one onto my steed and and swam south into the open sea as fast as it could carry us, away from the battle. It was only by chance and the help of a passing pod that I found land in time. She told me her name was Cysenthia and that she was of Andoran, she told me other things that she maybe shouldn't have because she was sick with fever and I a poor healer, that she was with the former slaves in secret and that she was supposed to have gotten a dispatch to Augustana..."

In the silence that follows his expression hardens. "I found her as beautiful then, sick and shivering, desperate to do her duty by her vows as I never did later. I am not some fool child being tricked by a pretty face. You asked what would happen if we do not ally with the Usena, if I do not marry the chief's daughter, nothing. Nothing important, the price of Whale blubber doesn't go down and Old Chief Rokus will just have to accept that he needs us to sell him steel even without his grandson on the Gold Coral Throne. Fighting the Chelish is important, keeping devils from doing... that to more people is important. If we pledge out spears to keeping slaver ships out of Aspo Bay then the First Elect will not hesitate as they have done of late. If I marry Hypolea then I will be in time king of a greater people, half of which want nothing to do with landwalkers beside trading the bounty of the sea for steel."

It's hard to guess the rightness of his judgment, but you have no doubt as to the depth of his passion, for his lady-love or for her cause. More to the very sharp point it's that cause that explains why Cozut had not just ran, or you guess swam away to be with his lady love. He plans to bring the Izentis into the fight against Chelish ships on the waters above.

While you are pondering this though Cob cuts to the heart of the matter. "Why do they need more steel, who're they fighting?"

"The sahuagin, the shark-folk press them. They come and go like a bloody tide, depending on the richness of the deep waters and how many warriors spawn from their creches. They they are as sharks themselves and not just with their enemies. If there are too many warriors for their home waters to carry they are sent to claim more near the coast. This time it was where the Usena range. Will you help me, will you help us, please?"

Akorian Sense Motive (DC 20): 1d20+12 = 29 (Success)

You sigh, running a hand over your face throwing the hood back in frustration. It does not take the keenest of eyes to tell he's being dismissive of the fight he cannot see. No matter if the Northerners would have accepted trading steel over a marriage alliance previously that does not mean their pride would take the agreement being voided at the last moment with gritted teeth rather than anger. After all an ally who broke a promise once might do so again and some might count aid untrustworthy worse than no aid at all. "I don't suppose you've tried persuading your father that your way is right?"

"Not about Cysenthia, but about attacking slavers yes, he said the Government in Almas isn't looking for war and we would only pay lives in service of a hopeless cause," he all but spits the last of the words.

What do you do?

[] Agree to help him escape his wedding (Gain 2500 gp and a Spindle Solution Pendant)
-[] Truthfully, foretell dark omens to the King should the wedding take place
-[] Lie and keep the pendant

[] Refuse, this is madness

[] Cob tries to persuade him that he can do both, become king and then turn his attention to the Chelish

[] Write in


OOC: Yes, one of your options is to have the Charisma 8 Goblin do diplomacy, but at least he isn't actively cursed when attempting it.
 
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Chapters like this are why it's almost always better to ask for more information. Not only do we get a great chapter out of it, but also world building and a character who at first seemed shallow and immature ends up being quite a bit different than expected.

I'm still not sure if we can help the kid, but I do see some possibilities that might work.
 
Okay, how about this.

We can't Diplomacy our way out of a wet paper bag, so rather than trying to convince the kid of anything, we need to present options, possibly advise him on how to get out of the marriage himself, and maybe even offer to act as a go-between with the Eagle Knights on his behalf.

@DragonParadox, this shouldn't count as Diplomacy, right? By acting as an advisor, we're just giving him ideas and information that he would then need to act on himself.

[X] Shadow Vizier, Wedding Crasher
-[X] Try to help the prince help himself to avoid his unwanted marriage. We might not receive payment, but we also won't risk angering two different undersea factions.
--[X] "Now that you have shared your story with us, Prince Cozut, it does not seem that you are not simply motivated by youthful selfishness or misguided love. Your father and Chief Rokus, on the other hand, may not see it that way."
--[X] Withdraw the paired dueling daggers we were planning to give as wedding gifts. "These were intended as gifts for you and your bride. Gifts, but also symbols of your transition into adulthood, as is done among the People."
---[X] Offer the daggers to him now and suggest that he should personally gift them to his father and Chief Rokus as a symbol of a new alliance between their peoples. "You know your people better than we ever will, so you yourself must find the words to sway your elders in this matter. Consider this, your own people have close contacts with the surface dwellers, and can more easily acquire steel weapons and other finished goods that are difficult to produce beneath the waves. The Usena moreso than your own people roam the depths and must have access to all manner of valuable materials and treasures valued on the surface.
----[X] "Could your people not serve as a go between for the Andorans and the Usena? While it might not start as an alliance aimed at fighting the Devil worshipers, it would be a start. Closer ties between the Azerketi and the Andorans would make you all stronger, either through force of arms or simple wealth, and once that strength has grown sufficient, it could then be turned toward external threats, like the Sahuagin or people of Cheliax."
-[X] He has Cysenthia the Eagle Knights as a contact within the Andorans military, and we can offer to put in a good word with Captain Caulker, if that will help.
-[X] If Cozut agrees to attempt to convince his father and the Chief to form an alliance without the marriage, Mina can cast her Hermean Potential and Heroism spells on him to increase his chances of success.
 
Okay, how about this.

We can't Diplomacy our way out of a wet paper bag, so rather than trying to convince the kid of anything, we need to present options, possibly advise him on how to get out of the marriage himself, and maybe even offer to act as a go-between with the Eagle Knights on his behalf.

@DragonParadox, this shouldn't count as Diplomacy, right? By acting as an advisor, we're just giving him ideas and information that he would then need to act on himself.

[X] Shadow Vizier, Wedding Crasher
-[X] Try to help the prince help himself to avoid his unwanted marriage. We might not receive payment, but we also won't risk angering two different undersea factions.
--[X] "Now that you have shared your story with us, Prince Cozut, it does not seem that you are not simply motivated by youthful selfishness or misguided love. Your father and Chief Rokus, on the other hand, may not see it that way."
--[X] Withdraw the paired dueling daggers we were planning to give as wedding gifts. "These were intended as gifts for you and your bride. Gifts, but also symbols of your transition into adulthood, as is done among the People."
---[X] Offer the daggers to him now and suggest that he should personally gift them to his father and Chief Rokus as a symbol of a new alliance between their peoples. "You know your people better than we ever will, so you yourself must find the words to sway your elders in this matter. Consider this, your own people have close contacts with the surface dwellers, and can more easily acquire steel weapons and other finished goods that are difficult to produce beneath the waves. The Usena moreso than your own people roam the depths and must have access to all manner of valuable materials and treasures valued on the surface.
----[X] "Could your people not serve as a go between for the Andorans and the Usena? While it might not start as an alliance aimed at fighting the Devil worshipers, it would be a start. Closer ties between the Azerketi and the Andorans would make you all stronger, either through force of arms or simple wealth, and once that strength has grown sufficient, it could then be turned toward external threats, like the Sahuagin or people of Cheliax."
-[X] He has Cysenthia the Eagle Knights as a contact within the Andorans military, and we can offer to put in a good word with Captain Caulker, if that will help.
-[X] If Cozut agrees to attempt to convince his father and the Chief to form an alliance without the marriage, Mina can cast her Hermean Potential and Heroism spells on him to increase his chances of success.

He has tried this, not with all the details above obviously, but attempt was made, so getting him to try again would be a diplomacy roll (by Cob) since the alternative is cursed.

One other thing you could try if you want diplomacy is to get him to come back to Augustana with you (which might disrupt preparations) and then have Sirim attempt his diplomacy out of the water.
 
[X] Refuse, this is madness

This doesn't change much.
We still have little skill in intervening in, or even just judging these matters.

Is he right, that breaking this betrothal won't change much?
I doubt it, a chieftain must be insulted by breaking it off directly before the wedding.
The prince is too optimistic for my taste.

I hope for him that he can find another way to follow his dreams, we should not put ourselves on the line for it.
Viserys would have found a solution, Roland might have, Akorian probably shouldn't-
 
Okay, new plan then...

This will take Cob from a -1 Diplomacy penalty to a +2 bonus, with a reroll if the first one doesn't succeed, which it probably won't.

[X] Cob; Goblin, Rogue, Gentleman, Man of the People...Diplomat?
-[X] While Kori distracts Prince Cozut, Mina surreptitiously casts Heroism, Hermean Potential, and Guidance on Cob as Gorok just happens to block them from the prince's view.
--[X] Once hopped up on Witch magic, Cob tries to persuade the prince that he can do both, become king and then turn his attention to the Chelish
-[X] If that doesn't work, we'll have to refuse. We don't have the power or clout to pull off this sort of thing.
 
We should intervene by making our best attempt as giving false prophecies.

Any ideas to word it right?
Kori has a good Bluff bonus for his level, and we could push it higher with Mina's help, but the consequences for failure can be pretty drastic. We are not exactly in our ideal environment for combat, and I don't know how well the Azerketi would react if they think we're lying about something like this.
 
Hmmm

We have a good angle to pull from here: Gorok's tribe

Their example means that the Chelish will arrive eventually and that you should be prepared for it. Because it will come at some point.
 
[X] Agree to help him escape his wedding (Gain 2500 gp and a Spindle Solution Pendant)
-[X] Truthfully, foretell dark omens to the King should the wedding take place


We might not be in a position to make decisions for the course of his people. But for better or worse. This prince will be their leader.

He can do as he wills now or he can do so later.

Also I flatly want to see if we can pull so grand a con off.
 
If I marry Hypolea then I will be in time king of a greater people, half of which want nothing to do with landwalkers beside trading the bounty of the sea for steel.
While if you do not, you will be a king of a smaller people who choose to fight Cheliax of all foes.
More to the very sharp point it's that cause that explains why Cozut had not just ran, or you guess swam away to be with his lady love. He plans to bring the Izentis into the fight against Chelish ships on the waters above.
This, given the sizes of their respective militaries, is suicidal. Doubly so as Andoran itself is not willing to do anything more than privateering. I can see why the current king considers this a lost cause; the only way to get Andoran in the fight proper would be to subordinate yourselves to the landwalkers completely:
The Lordship-that-Has-No-Lords in Almas would not send their own soldiers against them for their sympathy lay with them, but neither would they send a fleet to protect those who did not place themselves under Andoran law.
This will stir a massive hornet's nest no matter which way it goes, so naturally I support this plan. :whistle:

Besides. We see a devil twice our CR, we shank a devil. Here's someone willing to do this on a scale involving his entire people. How can we not cheer for that? :D

Goldfish said:
it does not seem that you are not simply motivated by youthful selfishness or misguided love
It's both at the same time.
Once hopped up on Witch magic, Cob tries to persuade the prince that he can do both, become king and then turn his attention to the Chelish
Which he can not, as the Usena are busy fighting their own war that they hope he would be supporting, one that is far more closely tied to their survival. FIghting two of them would be rather unwise.

Also I flatly want to see if we can pull so grand a con off.
Precisely! :rofl:

[X] Agree to help him escape his wedding (Gain 2500 gp and a Spindle Solution Pendant)
-[X] Truthfully, foretell dark omens to the King should the wedding take place
 
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[X] Agree to help him escape his wedding (Gain 2500 gp and a Spindle Solution Pendant)
-[X] Truthfully, foretell dark omens to the King should the wedding take place
 
If y'all are going to have us try to BS a dark prophecy, Mina should cast Hermean Potential and Heroism on Kori. Getting his Bluff bonus up to +17 and giving him a reroll would significantly increase our chances of success.
 
Sure.

We are choosing our goal here, the exact steps I assume will be determined when the time comes. The wedding is hours away.
 
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