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Cast-Offs of Divinity - A Merchants of Divinity Quest

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Sounds like scales really don't work well with that, is something like a T1 hand stabilizer to enhance our medicine surgery, and then use organ to make the overall project permanent viable? We make use of surgery every turn so it's not a bad effect. NOTE I am changing my plan!
[X] Plan Getting the Last Contract And Finishing Off Neuroplasticity
-[X] Skill training (University) (Science(Chemistry)) (4 TAP)
-[X] Work: Things have settled into "Business as usual". For however usual this business is. Expected pay: 3 Decent dots. (2 AP)
-[X] Start Experimenting. Requires lab. (Write in desired effect) (2 AP)
--[X] Experiment to find a T1 medicine surgery effect. Expected effect of +3 to Medicine(Surgery) checks.
-[X] Continue crafting the Neuroplasticity enhancer. 3 AP remain. (3 AP)
-[X] Old man Jack: Near the entrance to your Habitation block sits a old man. He sits there all day, always preforming some sort of hand craft. Whittling. Knitting. You should go give him a peace of your mind about such a shameful display! (3 AP)
 
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dlwj2000 said:
Sounds like scales really don't work well with that, is something like a T1 hand stabilizer to enhance our medicine surgery, and then use organ to make the overall project permanent viable? We make use of surgery every turn so it's not a bad effect. NOTE I am changing my plan!
[X] Plan Getting the Last Contract And Finishing Off Neuroplasticity
-[X] Skill training (University) (Science(Chemistry)) (4 TAP)
-[X] Work: Things have settled into "Business as usual". For however usual this business is. Expected pay: 3 Decent dots. (2 AP)
-[X] Start Experimenting. Requires lab. (Write in desired effect) (2 AP)
--[X] Experiment to find a T1 medicine surgery effect. Expected effect of +3 to Medicine(Surgery) checks.
-[X] Continue crafting the Neuroplasticity enhancer. 3 AP remain. (3 AP)
-[X] Old man Jack: Near the entrance to your Habitation block sits a old man. He sits there all day, always preforming some sort of hand craft. Whittling. Knitting. You should go give him a peace of your mind about such a shameful display! (3 AP)
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Changing plan for loss of 1 maybe 2 points?
Sounds like we are straying from "because its cool" to "whats most useful".
It may still work for Infinum, but imho ooc it breaks the spirit of the contract-gaining condition and I'm not interested.
Changing my vote, not supporting this.
Later we can do this, too. But not for the cool mad science project.
For the mad science project I want something that is done because its cool. (Needn't be dragonscales (or even Dragon related), but needs to convince me that it is equivalently cool/fun)

Edited a version of your plan with the scales into my post:
Toboe said:
[X] Plan Getting the Last Contract And Finishing Off Neuroplasticity, social scales version
-[X] Skill training (University) (Science(Chemistry)) (4 TAP)
-[X] Work: Things have settled into "Business as usual". For however usual this business is. Expected pay: 3 Decent dots. (2 AP)
-[X] Start Experimenting. Requires lab. (Write in desired effect) (2 AP)
--[X] Experiment to find a T1 social (Rhetoric) effect locked to be used with "artificial organ" to create "scales shining like gems", beautiful dragon scales that gives us an artful appearance inducing the halo effect to make people more likely to listen to us/put more weight behind what we say.
-[X] Continue crafting the Neuroplasticity enhancer. 3 AP remain. (3 AP)
-[X] Old man Jack: Near the entrance to your Habitation block sits a old man. He sits there all day, always preforming some sort of hand craft. Whittling. Knitting. You should go give him a peace of your mind about such a shameful display! (3 AP)
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Need to wait for a turn more of income to start the study it seems. I didn't realize the lab also costed money.

[X] Plan Dice for Dice's Sake
-[X] Skill training (Jörmungandr) (Organizational Knowledge) (4 TAP)
-[X] Work: Things have settled into "Business as usual". For however usual this business is. Expected pay: 3 Decent dots. (2 AP)
-[X] Continue crafting the Neuroplasticity enhancer. 3 AP remain. (3 AP)
-[X] Arrange for an operating theater. You will need somewhere to work, and make sure you have sufficient supplies. (2 AP)
-[X] Arrange for a constant stream of patients. (3 2 (Reduced by networking) AP)
-[X] Start Experimenting. Requires lab. (Finishing AP: 30 AP) (1 AP)
--[X] (T3) This device uses a complex audial system to emit subsonic waves which stimulates parts of the brain responsible for recognizing hierarchy in order to increase willingness to follow commands. Easily shaken off by sufficiently intelligent beings, thus is primarily useful on animals.

I dislike the idea of making decorative scales for the Infinium contract or the beating of rivals. I can support hand stabilizers, but I think we could train it without much of a hassle. Decided for something similar to the animal training implant just so we can conscript them or whatever we create to this rivalry.

Old Bones contract because more dice and training with Jorm for more money.
 
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Toboe said:
Changing plan for loss of 1 maybe 2 points?
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That was not the issue, the issue was that the scales would be a 12 dot difficulty component if we made them to have to work with an organ, and scale obviously have to be implanted.

Starman said:
I can support hand stabilizers, but I think we could train it without much of a hassle. Decided for something similar to the animal training implant just so we can conscript them or whatever we create to this rivalry.
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For the dice for dices sake plan I see two issues, first I doubt animal communication is only T1 and how would we even combine that with something like Organ. Also even if it was T1 it would only have a 50% chance of success, not necessarily a problem there but something to be aware of. Second with how the mechanics work no we can't train a Medicine(Surgery) effect. We can train the stat to get more dice but a training a flat gain isn't something that exists.
 
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[X] Plan Dice for Dice's Sake

I support all of this plan. MD is good, and an experimental t3 animal handling effect is perfect in my eyes. We can even build on it later by going into creating impossible creatures with Biology 4 and 5!

Edit: We might want to train some animal handling too though. I wonder where we can find a trainer for that?
 
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That's not what the plan does? The only thing that one AP could ever research is T1.
Animal control sounds nice but this plan just doesn't work to actually do that.
 
dlwj2000 said:
That was not the issue, the issue was that the scales would be a 12 dot difficulty component if we made them to have to work with an organ, and scale obviously have to be implanted.
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Yeah?
For Infinium we need a 30 AP Project.
9dot difficult is significantly too easy.
So add a T1 effect that pushes it to 12 dot which would be 30ish AP unless we get extremely lucky with the roll (and AP spent on the roll count as Part of the Infinium project).

It needs to be 12 dots difficulty.
 
No the research is 12 difficulty. It's a T4 effect apparently. This is talking about the research of an effect not the creation of an item
JayTar said:
On the other hand for it to specifically be dragon scales which give the benefit, you would be trying to invent a new effect which has "Requires Implantation". Because you can't really have that as a separate thing.
So your project to invent it would need to include artificial Organ, thus a minimum of 3+9=12 points.
If you succeed in the final roll you will get the item/modification. But if you fail you don't, and there may be health complications that need to be resolved with Medicine.
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JayTar said:
On the other hand for it to specifically be dragon scales which give the benefit, you would be trying to invent a new effect which has "Requires Implantation". Because you can't really have that as a separate thing.
So your project to invent it would need to include artificial Organ, thus a minimum of 3+9=12 points.
If you succeed in the final roll you will get the item/modification. But if you fail you don't, and there may be health complications that need to be resolved with Medicine.
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So inventing an effect with a restriction makes the cost to fulfill the restriction (like "needs to be implanted") part of the research project cost and finish the research project instantly gives the item instead of plans for the effect to be used in a crafting project?
That sounds weird.
 
I guess, it might work that way because researching high dot levels is harder than inventing? Because you have to invest at most 10 AP and if you fail you get nothing?
The highest it's even possible for us to invent is 9 dots with 10 AP and it's like a 50% chance so we can't even make a 12 dot effect right now.
 
dlwj2000 said:
first I doubt animal communication is only T1
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Wait, do you need more AP to start research depending on the tier? I was operating on the assumption that you can just spend more AP on the upcoming turns to improve the roll.

dlwj2000 said:
something like Organ
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This is a valid concern though. I could switch it into the pheromone spraycan that was floated up from way back. Something like "Something that makes you approachable to animals."

dlwj2000 said:
Second with how the mechanics work no we can't train a Medicine(Surgery) effect.
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Yeah, I suppose so. I was thinking more of the stat not the effect, and the stat has also reached the hundreds range. I still feel like we're more secure on that front than anything else.
 
dlwj2000 said:
I guess, it might work that way because researching high dot levels is harder than inventing? Because you have to invest at most 10 AP and if you fail you get nothing?
The highest it's even possible for us to invent is 9 dots with 10 AP and it's like a 50% chance so we can't even make a 12 dot effect right now.
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But then why did he suggest it if doing it is literally impossible for us?

Well, armorscales should work without the restriction, so that plan is still do-able with the slight change of removing the restriction. (And if we don't intend to dump medic work in favor of selling inventions as soon as we get Infinium, then that could push us into having enough survivability to do the 5+ decent dots medic work instead of the 3 decent dots)
 
dlwj2000 said:
-[X] Start Experimenting. Requires lab. (Write in desired effect) (2 AP)
--[X] Experiment to find a T1 medicine surgery effect. Expected effect of +3 to Medicine(Surgery) checks.
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Starman said:
-[X] Start Experimenting. Requires lab. (Write in desired effect) (1 AP)
--[X] A way to communicate with and understand animals. Preferably, birds.
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Okay I'm going to request a few things here for consistencies sake.

First remember to include the intended tier of the effect.
Second: How does the item work? This is important both for deciding feasibility, and where conflicts/overlaps occur.
For example the basic biology-based surgery booster would be a collection of serums and medicines to aid in surgery and promote fast healing from physical trauma.
The logical specialty for an external device that steadies your hand would be mechanical engineering. (Angela Bright laughs off screen) You might be able make it work with biology, but without a really clever idea I would say no more then 2/3 effectiveness.

Animal communication, it's possible. A device deigned to mimic a variety of animal sounds. Would give a bonus to Naturalism (Animal training) depending on the tier.
Animal understanding, more difficult. Maybe if someone has a convincing idea?

Point is items need to specify both a narrative and a mechanical component. Not just one or the other. Without that I would need to fill things in myself, and well, I might not do so how you intended it,

Third: How many AP in total do you want to dedicate in total? You can work on a experiment across multiple turns, but I need to know where you want to call it "done" and make the roll.

I just added an updated template to the turn post:
JayTar said:
[] Start Experimenting. Requires lab. (Write in desired effect) (Finishing AP: Write in) (Variable AP)
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Toboe said:
So inventing an effect with a restriction makes the cost to fulfill the restriction (like "needs to be implanted") part of the research project cost and finish the research project instantly gives the item instead of plans for the effect to be used in a crafting project?
That sounds weird.
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Almost. Rather any successful research project will give you an item, because ultimately what you are doing is creating a prototype. If the thing you are trying to invent has a restriction that requires something else then that needs to be included in the prototype. Because otherwise the prototype wouldn't make sense. Does that make sense?
 
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@JayTar : Does making something to show up our rival count as a sufficiently selfish/petty reason for Dr Infinium's contact? Because I want to make a monster that will beat up any robot she can make.
 
JayTar said:
Science 3 + Mechanical Engineering 0 = 3 dice
3d6 = [4, 3, 6] = 13
DC = 5 (Reduced by: Demonstration, Explanation)
Spring Skater's properties revealed:
Step springs: T2 Mechanical Engineering. Cost: 6, Benefit: +6 to Athletics (Jumping)
Ideal stabilizers: T3 Mechanical Engineering. Cost 9. Benefit +9 to Performance (Dancing)
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So I am thinking that we should do a bio project augmenting our legs with similar jump ability plus a giving ourselves a perfect sense of balance.
 
JayTar said:
Animal understanding, more difficult. Maybe if someone has a convincing idea?
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By the way, how "sci-fi" can an explanation be? After all, there's a very big difference between "tech could hypothetically already exist", "plausible near-future tech" and "sort of reasonable technobabble". Perhaps it's tier based?

Anyway, I'm not the planmaker, but my understanding is that it's supposed to be an Infinium worthy project for Animal Handling, which means it needs to be a single experimental tier 3 effect for a total of 30 AP. Flavour could be as follows:

"This device can concoct pheremone mixes on the fly, appealing to specific species as necessary and making them instinctively trust the wielder."

"This device uses a complex audial system to emit subsonic waves which stimulates parts of the brain responsible for recognising hierarchy in order to increase willingness to follow commands. Easily shaken off by sufficiently intelligent beings, thus is primarily useful on animals."

And lastly, an idea for animal communication:

"This device, (applied either via brain harness or short range wave emitter) directly stimulates the brain, forcibly stimulating neurons, connecting concepts as the animal understands them in order to convey meaning. For example, the concept of a shiny metal object of a certain shape can be connected with the concept of a particular human giving them food, bypassing the need for lengthy training in order to overcome the language barrier. Note: Application is still limited by intelligence of the animal. A cow cannot perform math as it lacks the concepts necessary (and the ability to obtain them)."

Eventually I want something inspired by Impossible Creature's Sigma Technology, but that's likely biology 4 or 5.

Sidenote: Angela has the right of it, mechanical engineering is the cooler specialty! Give back my mechs! :V
 
Can we add a Merchant of Divinity tag? I would like to see this quest style become more popular and the first step to having that happen would be making these quests easier to find. I found this quest way late.

Edit: Also who is the God Roux? S/He/it is mentioned in the first post.
 
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Impetus said:
By the way, how "sci-fi" can an explanation be? After all, there's a very big difference between "tech could hypothetically already exist", "plausible near-future tech" and "sort of reasonable technobabble". Perhaps it's tier based?

Anyway, I'm not the planmaker, but my understanding is that it's supposed to be an Infinium worthy project for Animal Handling, which means it needs to be a single experimental tier 3 effect for a total of 30 AP. Flavour could be as follows:

"This device can concoct pheremone mixes on the fly, appealing to specific species as necessary and making them instinctively trust the wielder."

"This device uses a complex audial system to emit subsonic waves which stimulates parts of the brain responsible for recognising hierarchy in order to increase willingness to follow commands. Easily shaken off by sufficiently intelligent beings, thus is primarily useful on animals."

And lastly, an idea for animal communication:

"This device, (applied either via brain harness or short range wave emitter) directly stimulates the brain, forcibly stimulating neurons, connecting concepts as the animal understands them in order to convey meaning. For example, the concept of a shiny metal object of a certain shape can be connected with the concept of a particular human giving them food, bypassing the need for lengthy training in order to overcome the language barrier. Note: Application is still limited by intelligence of the animal. A cow cannot perform math as it lacks the concepts necessary (and the ability to obtain them)."

Eventually I want something inspired by Impossible Creature's Sigma Technology, but that's likely biology 4 or 5.
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See that is a really good question.

At your current levels, "plausible near-future tech" is a good guideline. A little bit of soft sci-fi can smooth the edges, but it can't be the main foundation. Anyone who can cite real-world science gets a gold star (And a very high likelihood of a favorable ruling).
Of course the natural laws of Petri are not necessarily 1:1 with ours. Those glowing purple crystals over the void have some interesting properties for example. So those can act as a basis of an idea too.

On your examples:
Pheromone: Would have much reduced effectiveness on species which don't rely strongly on them. Say full effectiveness on insects, and 1/3 on everything else.
Sonic: Hmm, I'm kinda split here. It wouldn't be quite as direct as described, but infrasound is kinda a thing, and there is a bunch of psychology work on sound too.
Basically you would be creating a hyper advanced dog clicker to aid with positive/negative reinforcement in training. I'll say it works, but would have reduced effectiveness with unfamiliar animals (Because it would be a training tool, and is less useful if you haven't trained them with/for it).

Brain harness: Direct brain interface stuff is going to require a higher level I'm afraid.
 
JayTar said:
Basically you would be creating a hyper advanced dog clicker to aid with positive/negative reinforcement in training. I'll say it works, but would have reduced effectiveness with unfamiliar animals (Because it would be a training tool, and is less useful if you haven't trained them with/for it).
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That... sounds pretty good? It suits our purposes reasonably well, and it's a bit more general than a pheremone approach or some kind of mimicry device. @Starman, do you think this version would work for editing into the plan?

Oh, and some more questions, @JayTar: Does Leviathan know what kinds of species are common in the areas surrounding the city? Asking primarily to ascertain if it's worthwhile making specialised animal handling devices to interact with key species like dangerous predators for the expedition event.

Also, perhaps experimental projects should be their own vote, like technique creation was? It's a bit difficult for ideas and discussions to flourish in the weekly plan format.
 
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