Voting by plan and tallying by whole plan are two different things, especially early on in quests before the plan voting method has truly ossified into 'yeah, there's only two/three people who actually make plans, and everyone else just talks themselves into thinking those are the only valid combinations because thinking about things section-by-section is hard, even if they'd normally disagree with significant bits of all of the presented plans'.
EDIT: For example, if the Khans had been a little more divisive among people who wanted to banish the Brotherhood, that specific Brotherhood option would have lost a plan-only count despite more people voting for it and more plans including it, because all of the potential 'Had them settle down' voters would have split votes away from Plan: Aid and Independence (whether through voting for a different plan, or not approval voting for it). As soon as there's more than one part of the vote that anyone really cares about, plan-only tallying can get all sorts of messy and unrepresentative.
Voting by plan and tallying by whole plan are two different things, especially early on in quests before the plan voting method has truly ossified into 'yeah, there's only two/three people who actually make plans, and everyone else just talks themselves into thinking those are the only valid combinations because thinking about things section-by-section is hard, even if they'd normally disagree with significant bits of all of the presented plans'.
EDIT: For example, if the Khans had been a little more divisive among people who wanted to banish the Brotherhood, that specific Brotherhood option would have lost a plan-only count despite more people voting for it, because all of the potential 'Had them settle down' plans would have split votes away from Plan: Aid and Independence.
Which makes me wonder why you're asking whether or not the QM meant to have people vote by plan, if the results are so different. Like...this was a plan vote, so presumably, the plan is what counts, rather than individual tallies.
Which makes me wonder why you're asking whether or not the QM meant to have people vote by plan, if the results are so different. Like...this was a plan vote, so presumably, the plan is what counts, rather than individual tallies.
Because it needs to be made clear early on whether anyone past the first couple of plan-makers should even bother trying to make one instead of just settling for whichever of the first couple of plans is 'close enough', or if everyone should just accept that only the plans made by people who're awake when an update drops are going to be considered, even if it means that the winning plan includes stuff that most of the thread don't actually want - because I can count the number of times I've ever seen people change their votes from an earlier plan to a later one without even needing to use both hands.
As I said in my post, I'm aware that this is not the case for this vote, but it's important to define these things early so people know what they're getting into.
Voting by plan and tallying by whole plan are two different things, especially early on in quests before the plan voting method has truly ossified into 'yeah, there's only two/three people who actually make plans, and everyone else just talks themselves into thinking those are the only valid combinations because thinking about things section-by-section is hard, even if they'd normally disagree with significant bits of all of the presented plans'.
EDIT: For example, if the Khans had been a little more divisive among people who wanted to banish the Brotherhood, that specific Brotherhood option would have lost a plan-only count despite more people voting for it, because all of the potential 'Had them settle down' voters would have split votes away from Plan: Aid and Independence (whether through voting for a different plan, or not approval voting for it). As soon as there's more than one part of the vote that anyone really cares about, plan-only tallying can get all sorts of messy and unrepresentative.
There we go, I even bolded the relevant bit. Insisting on all votes being by plan is a matter of convenience for the QM, but doesn't mean they're obliged to ignore minor variations splitting an otherwise majority vote.
There we go, I even bolded the relevant bit. Insisting on all votes being by plan is a matter of convenience for the QM, but doesn't mean they're obliged to ignore minor variations splitting an otherwise majority vote.
Yeah, I was replying to that bit, because that seems to make your desire for clarification a bit silly when the QM asked, very specifically, for plan votes.
But I'm not running this so I'll let Etran answer this at this point. I just don't understand the point you're driving at when the vote has already been done, by plan, and tallying subjects separately would require an entirely new vote to be fair.
You know what, never mind; I'm clearly going to go completely insane trying to get the point in my brain translated into text, so I clearly need a break from forums.* @Etranger just ignore the question.
*EDIT: Embarrassing to have the inciting moment be so public, but clearly it's sorely needed - don't operate heavy machinery or post while on a brand new course of prescription brain meds, folks.
Thankfully at this stage there aren't as many choices. It's understandable how people can be discouraged from making plans. Especially when in some quests there's so much to juggle that the resulting plans can rival CVS receipts in length.
In case anyone was still curious, I determine the winner by which plan has a plurality of votes unless otherwise stated and then go with that plan. I'm using plans rather than individual votes because I think it's preferable to use a course of action that's fully intentional rather than a hodgepodge that might accidentally contradict itself; i.e. if the first prologue vote had competing "destroy the NCR, let the Legion go" and "let the NCR go, destroy the Legion" plans and the vote total instead shook out to "destroy them all" or "let them both go". Funny, but not ideal from a QMing standpoint.
Plan: Aid and Independence
- [BOOM] Enlist their aid.
- [BOS] Drove them out.
- [KHANS] Sent them north.
- [KINGS] Mobilize across the city.
For good or for ill, no one could say that you didn't account for every potential variable in your plan to -- depending on one's perspective -- conquer and/or liberate the Mojave Wasteland. "Let sleeping dogs lie" was a saying for cowards and wastrels, as far as you were concerned. Better to get bitten and know you have a problem than live in suspense.
The Boomers proved almost too eager to lend you their considerable firepower, and their absolute delight at the subsequent devastation wrought by artillery shell and gravity bomb alike would have been more concerning if you weren't cheering right alongside them. For your services to the people of Nellis, you were gifted a custom bomber jacket, along with a gleaming crown of bullet casings. You were happy to wear the jacket in public, but the crown might give people the wrong idea, so it went -- reluctantly -- into the Lucky 38's trophy room. After you tried it on first, of course.
(It was quite fetching, but the brass ended up digging into your temples, so your restraint was ultimately for the best.)
Free of their self-imposed isolation, the Boomers began expanding their territorial claims via heavily-armed patrols, which in turn were followed by small forts bristling with artillery. Soon enough, they had staked out positions on I-15, exercising effective control over the trade route to the northeast and directly bordering North Vegas. They have yet to enforce tolls or searches on caravans using the highway, but some worry that it's only a matter of time.
For the Brotherhood of Steel, terminally infected with a kind of arrogance and ennui that could only spell disaster if left unchecked, there was less mercy. With the aid of your companions, you fatally sabotaged the life-support systems in their bunker, flushing the entire chapter out into the open. At that point, backed by your Securitrons, you laid down an ultimatum: leave the Mojave or face extinction. Veronica, who had already turned away from those who she once called her people, had interceded on their behalf to allow for the diplomatic option, but would not involve herself further in the confrontation.
MacNamara and Hardin, their dispute forgotten in their outrage, chose violence over negotiation, and paid the ultimate price for their hubris. Knights and Paladins perished beneath a withering hail of rocket and laser fire, though not without exacting a costly toll among your robotic troops in the process. In the end, it was a diminished remnant of the Mojave Brotherhood that finally fled southwest along I-15, their defeated postures a portent of the fate that awaited the NCR. Respecting your companion's wishes, you declined to pursue them.
After exposing the sinister purpose behind Caesar's envoy, you successfully broke the Great Khans free of their alliance to the Legion. Having completed your task to your satisfaction, you were surprised when Papa Khan asked your thoughts on his tribe's future -- unlike many in the Mojave, he could see where you were headed. Always ready to solve a problem rather than put it off, you suggested a great northern pilgrimage, where the Khans could flourish and explore their roots free from persecution by NCR or any other power. You did not name what other power might find itself in opposition to them in the near future, but he took the hint well enough.
By the time of the Second Battle, the Great Khans' exodus had begun in earnest, and they cut a bloody swath through the raiders and monsters of the north as they migrated toward a wide-open land, one where they might finally find peace. You sent them off with plenty of supplies, a dozen volunteer Followers, and your heartfelt best wishes. It wasn't often that doing the right thing and doing the smart thing dovetailed so neatly, and you were quite pleased with the result.
(Surely this wouldn't come back to bite you later. Surely not.)
As self-proclaimed embodiments of "cool," the Kings took to authority with their signature style and levelheadedness. In truth, their brand of street chivalry made them more akin to the heroic ideal of the knight than the Brotherhood of Steel ever was, and they exercised their power with a suitably light and benevolent touch. Much of the NCR's equipment and resources were left behind in the panic of their retreat, as were most of the civilians, and so all the metaphorical and literal machinery took to remain operational was someone to oversee all the various bits.
The King himself adapted to his role as your de facto second-in-command with ease, and the two of you established a good working relationship built on respect and wholly devoid of false deference. He was the only person outside your inner circle aware of Yes Man, and of your various other secret capabilities, and he safeguarded that information with suitable discretion.
Having settled the affairs of the Wasteland at large, we now turn to the center of your power: the Vegas Strip. The Strip's economy is held up primarily through the efforts of its three great casinos: the Omertas' Gomorrah, a den of depravity and sin; the White Gloves' Ultra-Luxe, a haven of utmost elegance; and the Chairmen's Tops, a free-wheeling, never-ending party place.
During your preparations for the Second Hoover Dam campaign, you elected to establish your authority over Mr. House's former subordinates rather than leave them to their own devices. With each group of ex-tribals deeply entrenched in their seats of power and each quite well-armed, you had to resort to... creative methods of problem-solving.
OMERTAS
To your dismay, a search of Gomorrah allowed you to see beneath the Omertas' surface layer of petty corruption and venality to expose not just shocking depravity against the helpless and innocent, but an active conspiracy to hand the Strip over to Caesar's Legion. Disgusted by what you found, you...
[][OMERTAS] Turned their leaders against each other.
Greedy and power-hungry, Nero and Big Sal might have been partners in crime, but never comfortable ones. They were only too willing to believe that the other had contracted you to murder them. With brutal efficiency, you executed the winner. When you were done taking out the leaders, as well as anyone who had the guts to protest, the Omertas were much-reduced but still functional, and subservient to your wishes -- for now.
[][OMERTAS] Took out the whole murderous bunch.
Part of the Omerta conspiracy against the Strip was the construction of a chlorine bomb intended to cause mass casualties among the people of New Vegas. Turning their plot against them required nothing more than adjusting the output on the device and then setting off the fire alarm. Once the civilians were all out, a push of the remote detonator was sufficient to end the threat of the Omertas, once and for all. All it cost was a third of the Strip's economic output, and a little piece of your soul.
WHITE GLOVES
Foiling the attempted resurgence of cannibalism from within the White Gloves was comparatively quite easy. The real question was what to do with them afterwards. Ultimately, you...
[][GLOVES] Kept their secret.
For all their pretensions, the White Gloves had clearly put their villainous history largely behind them, and the few dissenters were dealt with easily enough. Quietly settling the internal dispute in favor of the reformists enabled you to win substantial goodwill from the society of gourmands and keep the Ultra-Luxe operating at peak efficiency. Unfortunately, it also meant that you'd have to keep them happy in the future, fussy types that they were.
[][GLOVES] Exposed them to the world.
The cannibal pasts of the White Gloves were the ideal lever to force them out of their privileged position in the Strip. By tarring the entire Society with the actions of a few radicals, including the abduction of a brahmin baron's heir, you could destroy their glamorous façade forever and force them into exile. Ruthless, sure, and quite costly in the short term, but as Caesar might have said, "vae victis." The goodwill you earned from one of the NCR's richest men wasn't nothing, either.
CHAIRMEN
Despite Benny's unforgivable trespasses against both his boss and -- much more importantly -- you, the Chairmen were actually the least offensive of New Vegas' Three Families. Devoid of sinister plots or secret rituals, the good-time boys of the Tops were content to host popular entertainment and fleece the average Strip-goer in suitably friendly fashion. Like the Kings, they could prove quite useful. Therefore, you...
[][CHAIRS] Let the party roll on.
Sometimes, the best thing to do is nothing at all. Swank had the Chairmen and the Tops well in hand, and had no problem giving you Mr. House's cut of the proceeds in exchange for continued protection and support. Why rock the boat when it's sailing so smoothly?
[][CHAIRS] Incorporated them into your efforts.
With their culture of honesty and straightforwardness, the Chairmen would make ideal intermediaries and officials in your growing regime. It might be difficult to pry them away from the Tops, profit center that it was, and you'd need to replace them there in the long term, but they'd be invaluable in keeping the Strip as a whole running well.
48 hours to vote. No moratorium this time; let's see how that goes. Please vote by plan; a sample format is included below.
[] Plan: Interesting Plan Name
-[][CAT1] Do a thing.
-[][CAT2] No, not that, the other thing.
-[][CAT3] Yes, right, exactly.
Okay, so there's still one prologue vote after this one, but that's it, I promise.
Feel free to ask questions here or come chat in my channel on Wordsmiths. Thank you to everyone for your participation so far, and have fun!
[X] Plan: Strip-ped Clean
-[X][OMERTAS] Took out the whole murderous bunch.
-[X][GLOVES] Exposed them to the world.
-[X][CHAIRS] Incorporated them into your efforts.
The overwhelming focus on casinos as a purely extractive affair is incredibly poor a foundation to build a society on. Wipe out the entrenched bastards and shift the useful ones over to more useful things than fucking people over.
[X] Plan: Strip-ped Clean
-[X][OMERTAS] Took out the whole murderous bunch.
-[X][GLOVES] Exposed them to the world.
-[X][CHAIRS] Incorporated them into your efforts.
All three groups are poison for a new city-state, imo. By letting them stick around and pocket gambling money we buy ourselves trouble in the future when they start sticking their fingers in our politics. We will never have a better time to get rid of them.
[X] Plan: Strip-ped Clean
-[X][OMERTAS] Took out the whole murderous bunch.
-[X][GLOVES] Exposed them to the world.
-[X][CHAIRS] Incorporated them into your efforts.
The disposition of New Vegas' sex workers is definitely a thing that will come up in the quest proper but at this point they lack the military force necessary to root out the Three Families. Who can say what the future will bring, though?
[X] Plan: A Modicum of Restraint
-[X][OMERTAS] Turned their leaders against each other.
-[X][GLOVES] Exposed them to the world.
-[X][CHAIRS] Let the party roll on.
I think I'm already too late, but I think tearing them all out by the roots will be too destabilizing. Killing all the Omertas will be too destabilizing and I think bad for our PCs mental health.
Gloves going has a much higher benefit though, especially if we want to do a reconciliation with the NCR down the line.
[X] Plan: Strip-ped Clean
-[X][OMERTAS] Took out the whole murderous bunch.
-[X][GLOVES] Exposed them to the world.
-[X][CHAIRS] Incorporated them into your efforts.
Honestly the best time to clean house is now. And it's not like we've flinched at the price of burning out the rot before.
Two of them are useful, although we'll probably want to transition from casinos to more general entertainment as an "industry" for the reasons Godwinson mentions.
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