[X] Two-crew Pod (+4 Payload, +2 Utility, +3 Weight, 3 Budget.)
For a Moment, There Was Hope [Space Vehicle Design Quest]
- Thread starter Havocfett
- Start date
- Original
Cornuthaum
Be kind to each other.
- Location
- Austria
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Two-crew Pod (+4 Payload, +2 Utility, +3 Weight, 3 Budget.)
Sirrocco
Pedantic
Okay. So we have one more engineering and one more non-engineering after this... and 7 budget. My gut says we need at least three budget walking out of this if we want to be safe from being trapped in bad options... but that doesn't actually limit us here, as *all* of our choices are at least that good. Also, we desperately need a win.
Fact is? Quebec *is* a win. The public market is *also* a win. The question is whether to go hard for one or the other, or to hedge our bets.
Right now, for the public option, we are well under size targets, but not hitting payload targets. Also, the public option wants to be cheap. Quebec doesn't care about weight or payload, but wants a moderate cost, and does care about utility.
The fact that we know what our targets are in character, but not out here is a little weird, but we can try to figure it out as we go.
Current Design (after one-crew pod changes)
Payload: 4 (barely adequate?)
Utility: 5
Weight: 5 (still under)
Maintenance: 3
Unit Cost: Medium
Hazard: 0
remaining budget: 7
Let's look at our options:
- going from pod to segmented gives +3 utility, +2 weight, and increases unit cost. Costs two budget.
- going from one-person to two-person gives +3 payload, +2 utility, +2 weight, and costs three budget
- If we take *both* of these, we get some synergy bonuses: +1 utility, and 1 budget discount.
Sticking with pod is ignoring Quebec, to the point of saying "write off the bribes as a loss". That honestly seems pretty dire to me, given that Quebec was pretty happy with what they saw at Delhi, but I'm willing to believe that our characters are competent, and that if that's what they're saying, that's what is. This is a minority position at this point. The segmented design is noted as being more comfortable, and more able to function independently.
Based on what our characters are telling us, I feel like one-crew Pod is a straight-up mistake, and we can't really afford to write off Quebec that hard. We need to hedge our bets at least a little. I admit, I'm now wishing that we'd bribed a little harder. I was not expecting that extra 1-budget infusion.
Two-crew Pod is... potentially viable. It gives an extra +2 utility, which might be enough to sway Quebec. It conclusively solves the payload issue. the damage it does to our weight is probably not too much to handle. It leaves us 4 budget remaining for last-minute adjustments. I think it's the most serious contender for both having and eating cake.
Two-crew Segmented is the "make Quebec happy" pick. There's a good chance that it cranks both weight and price above what the public market will bear, and it leaves only three budget for last-minute adjustments, but that +6 utility is going to call to them.
Based on that... I have to say that I think that one-crew segmented just doesn't go far enough. It only barely tries to solve the payload issues, it bumps the weight up noticeably, and it's the only pick we have that gives worse than 1-for-1 budget for stats. It's clearly trying to pander to Quebec, but it's doing so inefficiently.
Given all that...
[x] Two-crew Pod (+4 Payload, +2 Utility, +3 Weight, 3 Budget.)
At this point, I think that either of the two-crew options would make sense, but this is the one I'm going for.
Fact is? Quebec *is* a win. The public market is *also* a win. The question is whether to go hard for one or the other, or to hedge our bets.
Right now, for the public option, we are well under size targets, but not hitting payload targets. Also, the public option wants to be cheap. Quebec doesn't care about weight or payload, but wants a moderate cost, and does care about utility.
The fact that we know what our targets are in character, but not out here is a little weird, but we can try to figure it out as we go.
Current Design (after one-crew pod changes)
Payload: 4 (barely adequate?)
Utility: 5
Weight: 5 (still under)
Maintenance: 3
Unit Cost: Medium
Hazard: 0
remaining budget: 7
Let's look at our options:
- going from pod to segmented gives +3 utility, +2 weight, and increases unit cost. Costs two budget.
- going from one-person to two-person gives +3 payload, +2 utility, +2 weight, and costs three budget
- If we take *both* of these, we get some synergy bonuses: +1 utility, and 1 budget discount.
Sticking with pod is ignoring Quebec, to the point of saying "write off the bribes as a loss". That honestly seems pretty dire to me, given that Quebec was pretty happy with what they saw at Delhi, but I'm willing to believe that our characters are competent, and that if that's what they're saying, that's what is. This is a minority position at this point. The segmented design is noted as being more comfortable, and more able to function independently.
Based on what our characters are telling us, I feel like one-crew Pod is a straight-up mistake, and we can't really afford to write off Quebec that hard. We need to hedge our bets at least a little. I admit, I'm now wishing that we'd bribed a little harder. I was not expecting that extra 1-budget infusion.
Two-crew Pod is... potentially viable. It gives an extra +2 utility, which might be enough to sway Quebec. It conclusively solves the payload issue. the damage it does to our weight is probably not too much to handle. It leaves us 4 budget remaining for last-minute adjustments. I think it's the most serious contender for both having and eating cake.
Two-crew Segmented is the "make Quebec happy" pick. There's a good chance that it cranks both weight and price above what the public market will bear, and it leaves only three budget for last-minute adjustments, but that +6 utility is going to call to them.
Based on that... I have to say that I think that one-crew segmented just doesn't go far enough. It only barely tries to solve the payload issues, it bumps the weight up noticeably, and it's the only pick we have that gives worse than 1-for-1 budget for stats. It's clearly trying to pander to Quebec, but it's doing so inefficiently.
Given all that...
[x] Two-crew Pod (+4 Payload, +2 Utility, +3 Weight, 3 Budget.)
At this point, I think that either of the two-crew options would make sense, but this is the one I'm going for.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It's worth also considering that Havocfett has said that going with either Pod will drop cost to Low instead of the medium we're doing right now and given Quebec was caring about cost that might significantly sway them.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
Yeah... except that Quebec specifically wanted a moderate cost... which means that they're less interested in the pod setup, because it's cheaper than what they're looking for.
Now, it also means that there was actual conflict between what Quebec was asking for and what the public wanted. I admit that I missed that bit last time, and I'm not entirely sure what to do about it.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
They want to make like, a thousand of these things. I don't think they'll be mad if its cheaper than they were initially expecting to pay.
The problem with the one crew pod is that it doesn't meet their Utility requirements. Not cost. I'm admittedly a little baffled by your post.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
That was a two budget infusion and I fucked up basic addition somehow! You have 8 budget remaining and I am editing that into the post.
Correct, Quebec is aiming for moderate unit cost but they're not gonna complain about getting it lower than expected.
Conversely, space mining is an expensive enough proposition that many public buyers aren't going to mind a moderate unit cost.
One crew pod is definitely not enough for Quebec and isn't amazing for the civilian market, so IMO it's not an option worth considering.
Going from One-crew Segment to Two-crew Pod is +1 Budget, -1 Utility for +3 Payload. That's a pretty reasonable boost, and it lowers unit costs too! The utility is a bit low but I think it's enough to at least give us a good shot at the Quebec contract.
Two-crew Pod to Two-crew Segmented is +1 Budget, +2 Weight for +4 Utility. While nice, it doesn't seem like something the civilian market would really want.
[X] Two-crew Pod (+4 Payload, +2 Utility, +3 Weight, 3 Budget.)
Going from One-crew Segment to Two-crew Pod is +1 Budget, -1 Utility for +3 Payload. That's a pretty reasonable boost, and it lowers unit costs too! The utility is a bit low but I think it's enough to at least give us a good shot at the Quebec contract.
Two-crew Pod to Two-crew Segmented is +1 Budget, +2 Weight for +4 Utility. While nice, it doesn't seem like something the civilian market would really want.
[X] Two-crew Pod (+4 Payload, +2 Utility, +3 Weight, 3 Budget.)
Sirrocco
Pedantic
The civilian market does want utility. The real kicker there is that it cranks the price up to moderate, and it might push us over the line on weight.
If I thought there was going to be a way to somehow spend budget to trim weight in the next engineering pick, I'd be pretty tempted by it right now (that extra +1 budget is significant) but that hasn't generally been the way these choices work out.
Also, there's a question of what kind of market niche our little co-op starts to fill. Having the thing that puts us on the map be more or less a custom job specifically tuned to appeal to a certain well-heeled dictatorship is... well, it's a thing. Now, rent money is rent money, but at the same time....
- Location
- Fort Worth, TX
[X] Two-crew Pod (+4 Payload, +2 Utility, +3 Weight, 3 Budget.)
0t4n1z3r019
Member of the HAFPTG
- Location
- Philippines
[X] Two-crew Pod (+4 Payload, +2 Utility, +3 Weight, 3 Budget.)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If you go 1 crew Pod you might as well write off the bribe. Quebec wants high versatility in their design.
- Location
- Hollister
[X] Two-crew Pod (+4 Payload, +2 Utility, +3 Weight, 3 Budget.)
TheOmnimercurial
Dragon Bard
- Location
- UK
[x] Two-crew Segmented (+4 Payload, +6 Utility, +5 Weight. 4 Budget.)
We have a great product and a guaranteed buyer, so let's make this thing the best it can be.
We have a great product and a guaranteed buyer, so let's make this thing the best it can be.
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Two-crew Pod (+4 Payload, +2 Utility, +3 Weight, 3 Budget.)
NotInventedHere
MSV, Desert Class
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Two-crew Pod (+4 Payload, +2 Utility, +3 Weight, 3 Budget.)
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/They
[x] Two-crew Segmented (+4 Payload, +6 Utility, +5 Weight. 4 Budget.)
It bumps the price up more than Two-crew Pod, but still in Moderate range, and...hrm.
I have no idea what "low" and "moderate" cost ranges are, but:
Admittedly, the optics aren't great; it does look like a bit of a sellout move. But...it's also just straight-up a good product.
tl;dr 2C Segmented good.
[x] Two-crew Segmented (+4 Payload, +6 Utility, +5 Weight. 4 Budget.)
It bumps the price up more than Two-crew Pod, but still in Moderate range, and...hrm.
| Chassis | Cost | Weight | Payload | Payload per Weight | Payload per Crew | Utility | Utility per Weight | Utility per Crew |
| 1C Pod | Low | 5 | 4 | 0.8 | 4 | 5 | 1 | 5 |
| 1C Segmented | Low+ | 8 | 4 | 0.5 (-37.5%) | 4 | 8 | 1 | 8 |
| 2C Pod | Moderate | 8 | 7 | 0.875 (+10.9%) | 3.5 | 7 | 0.875 (-12.5%) | 3.5 |
| 2C Segmented | Moderate+ | 9 | 7 | 0.778 (-2.8%) | 3.5 | 11 | 1.222 (+22.2%) | 4.5 |
I have no idea what "low" and "moderate" cost ranges are, but:
- 1C Pod is actually surprisingly competitive.
- 1C Segmented is straight-up bad. For a given mothership mass capacity, it's the least efficient option at everything (though it does save on crew salaries for a given Utility capacity, if you were worried about that?)
- 2C Pod is worse for the Utility-focused Quebecois than simply carrying more of the small pods (although they won't actually buy said small pods and will probably buy this. Maybe we should pick this just to screw over the dictatorship?)
- 2C Segmented is- for a given mothership mass capacity, and so long as it costs less than 180% of the 1C pod's price*, also for a given purchase budget- only marginally less efficient in payload, greatly superior in utility, and offering soft benefits like "more comfortable".
Admittedly, the optics aren't great; it does look like a bit of a sellout move. But...it's also just straight-up a good product.
tl;dr 2C Segmented good.
[x] Two-crew Segmented (+4 Payload, +6 Utility, +5 Weight. 4 Budget.)
Last edited:
KhazintheDark
May or may not be insane...
- Location
- Not where you are. Probably.
[X] Two-crew Pod (+4 Payload, +2 Utility, +3 Weight, 3 Budget.)
[x] Two-crew Segmented (+4 Payload, +6 Utility, +5 Weight. 4 Budget.)
[x] Two-crew Segmented (+4 Payload, +6 Utility, +5 Weight. 4 Budget.)
TheOmnimercurial
Dragon Bard
- Location
- UK
[x] Two-crew Segmented (+4 Payload, +6 Utility, +5 Weight. 4 Budget.)
