A Rat's Guide to Glory
- Thread starter Naron
- Start date
questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
We all better start praying to our lord and savior Ayin, cuz this is still a gamble.
?!§$% - There Are No Heroes In This City
- Location
- Earth
[] Tell Rose to get Giano out of here. Delay Elena for as long as possible.
You are terrified, but you also realise something: forever running away from things will never change anything.
If your only choice here is between which one you have to sacrifice, then you will refuse to make that choice. Even if it will hurt, even if you are scared, you find tranquility in that thought. This is what you want to do.
So you settle next to Rose, whispering to her urgently: "Take Giano and run, I'll distract her."
She needs a moment to turn your way, tears still rolling down her throat, but gives a little nod. The monster just watches her scoop up Giano with some difficulty, something like amusement on her features. You step between her and the other two, faintly worried for Rose now that she can only walk with another person's weight on her shoulders.
"And what exactly are you planning to do there, little morsel?"
There is no real humour in the woman's voice, just some passing interest. She does not make her zombies do anything, just watches on as Rose slowly ambles away. You try to distract her by speaking up: "What's your name, miss?"
"Elena."
She finally looks away from them and at you; the aura of hunger only intensifies and then she is right in front of you from one moment to the next. Elena stares at you, silently daring you to speak. Your tongue is tied and you have trouble forming words, but you force yourself anyway.
"So Elena then, what exactly-" "Hush."
Your mouth clicks shut, then you shudder as a clawed hand cups your cheek. Elena's lips quirk into the faintest smirk, revealing razor sharp canines beneath. "A meal doesn't talk."
Something stings your throat and you only realise belatedly that she sunk those teeth into it. Within moments you feel faint, unable to do more than scratch at her clothes before your hands fall limp.
It doesn't hurt, is the weird thing. You just grow sleepy and all the worries of before fall away, the fear too. Death should not be this peaceful, but maybe you actually managed to achieve something today.
Elena lets your husk lie and wipes her mouth, then turns to where Rose is just turning the street corner.
"And now I'm full," she mutters, then heaves a sigh. "Oh well."
She turns and walks away, having lost all interest. Your empty body has gone cold by the time Maria and Hifumi arrive.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD_yKzrR_cc&ab_channel=EluTran%5BArchived%5D
There is no way forward for Ciel, yet their sacrifice will save both. Is this your choice?
[] Accept
[] Refuse and switch the timeline
Before you vote, I want to say a few things.
1. This is not a bad end, at least in my opinion. Ciel here does something that nary a City dweller can even conceive at this point in time: they willingly give their life to protect others, not for money or glory but because they feel it is the right thing. There was exactly one person in this City who we know for certain would have done the same, and that is Kali. Had this been post-Pillar of Light, Ciel would have manifested E.G.O here.
2. I am not signalling that I want to drop/end the Quest. I recently realised that there will be alternate non-bad endings to the original goal, though. The current mission can lead to more than just this one too. I decided to give you the choice here because while I feel this as a satisfying end in regard to Ciel as a character, I understand that others may find it unsatisfying or simply bitter instead of bittersweet.
If this is a satisfying conclusion, vote Accept and we will see an epilogue soon. If this is unsatisfying to you, vote Refuse and we return to the last vote next week.
Kalibrius
God of reflection
- Location
- The other side of the mirror
[X] Refuse and switch the timeline
I think we can all agree
NOPE
No giving up yet!
By hook or by crook we're making it through, fates threads be damned, we got people counting on us and a gal to return to and we ain't losing giano or the client
We are the rat and Elena the cat, I say it's time to pull a Tom and Jerry!
I think we can all agree
NOPE
No giving up yet!
By hook or by crook we're making it through, fates threads be damned, we got people counting on us and a gal to return to and we ain't losing giano or the client
We are the rat and Elena the cat, I say it's time to pull a Tom and Jerry!
A difficult choice, Ciel didn't reach their dream, but did do a thing that is quite impressive for a city dweller... the E.G.O part hurts, Ciel will never know, but they could have reached so high... if it had happened later.
Guess, Giano is likely to die then, I want to see more, I want to allow Ciel to save more, let's join Hana for our friend, the one who showed us the way, the one who told us she was ready to sacrifice herself for Hana, she will remember us in this timeline, we will remember her in the next one.
[x] Refuse and switch the timeline
All for Hana, Hana for all.
Now, part of the question becomes:
How likely is the Hail mary of trying to flee with everyone to work?
Because I am considering it now, the risk reward ratio changed, the interesting options did as a consequence. We can't save them and ourself that way, so what if we flee with them?
It will be either the full on hail mary or just saving Rose for me.
Either you meant anticipated (which we did, we did know this was a risky play), or you would need to change your vote to do what you say we should, since accepting the consequences is the other vote.
Edit:
Thinking strongly going for the try of fleeing with them first, and if it doesn't work, well, either someone found a new idea in the time it gives, or Giano dies.
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- Location
- Russia
This is just ridiculous. What's with this half baked attempt to look self-righteous? I'm addressing other readers, not QM, to be specific. If you wished to play a hero, at least have a courage to stick with your decisions. I didn't vote for suicide but I'm tempted to accept this deal for the sole purpose of teaching you consistency.
It's actually irritated me a little.
It's actually irritated me a little.
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[X] Refuse and switch the timeline
I dont even know what people thought would happen with that vote. The obvious conclusion is what we see here. Ciel dying and saving two others.
Against a bloodfiend of Elena's caliber it takes more than a single mid rank fixer, the correct action was to either fail the mission for hana by sacrificing the client, or sacrifice a friend but save the client and finnish the mission.
Either of which have a possibility to not really reflect badly on how the evaluation would have ended, it could be possible that the Hana would look at the fact that a soon to be if not already a star of the city rank enemy had interfered with the mission, and come a favorable conclusion even if the client died, especially as the client went against our advice of staying out of this.
I dont even know what people thought would happen with that vote. The obvious conclusion is what we see here. Ciel dying and saving two others.
Against a bloodfiend of Elena's caliber it takes more than a single mid rank fixer, the correct action was to either fail the mission for hana by sacrificing the client, or sacrifice a friend but save the client and finnish the mission.
Either of which have a possibility to not really reflect badly on how the evaluation would have ended, it could be possible that the Hana would look at the fact that a soon to be if not already a star of the city rank enemy had interfered with the mission, and come a favorable conclusion even if the client died, especially as the client went against our advice of staying out of this.
...
....
.....
Coming here to insult basically every voters over a decision that was taken while knowing we could continue past death because we died and want to continue is not going to make you friends, nor is calling that *self-righteous*, just saying. Not like your vote alone would change anything anyway, you would have to persuade voters to consider the option for that, and given how you began, you won't, hell, I did have some idle thoughts on letting Ciel die as a hero before, now they're all gone thanks to you.
Edit:
One: Hindsight is 20/20, telling it was easy to see that this was the *only* possible end after the fact is not really insightful.
Two: Naron is not the sort of QM that ignores good ideas, so saying that there are only two options is not true.
Three: We knew the option was risky for Ciel, and weren't expecting to win the fight, we were only expecting to delay it and survive in some ways.
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[X] Refuse and switch the timeline
I did not really see the need for hindsight in this case, but yeah i could have added more argument to my previous vote of saving Rose rather than just leaving it blank.
The fact of the matter was that anyone familiar with the setting would know that fighting Elena in order to delay them for longer than a few seconds was a doomed endeavor as Elena is strong enough to put up a fight against both a color and a grade 1 fixer at the same time. Which again i made the mistake of not putting in to my previous vote. Which i should reflect upon.
And yes Naron would probably allow for any option that we vote to work and would lead them to their logical conclusion. Which in this case happens to be this...
So in the end i would like to say that i am sorry that my previous comment came off as condescending. I need to get rid of my own habit of just lurking and posting an occasional vote..
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This is what happens when you miss a single vote apparently. Dang, Elana wasn't messing around.
On one hand, I feel like this is a good end for Ciel in regards to their character and the choices we've made so far, and wouldn't really be that upset if things ended here.
On the other hand...
[X] Refuse and switch the timeline
We cannot rest while there is still work to be done.
Real talk though, what should we do in this situation once we reset? Rose still has the T-Corp tech with about 5 seconds left so she might be able to get out on her own, but I feel like getting Giano will make us the bigger target. Actually, what are the specifics of that device, could we use it on all three of us to get a head start? Or maybe speed up our time to get a good hit in on her legs and force her to regenerate? Other than that I don't see many options, unless there's somehow a way we can overclock our gust ring.
On one hand, I feel like this is a good end for Ciel in regards to their character and the choices we've made so far, and wouldn't really be that upset if things ended here.
On the other hand...
[X] Refuse and switch the timeline
We cannot rest while there is still work to be done.
Nah, don't worry about it, it happens sometimes.
Real talk though, what should we do in this situation once we reset? Rose still has the T-Corp tech with about 5 seconds left so she might be able to get out on her own, but I feel like getting Giano will make us the bigger target. Actually, what are the specifics of that device, could we use it on all three of us to get a head start? Or maybe speed up our time to get a good hit in on her legs and force her to regenerate? Other than that I don't see many options, unless there's somehow a way we can overclock our gust ring.
This was a proposed solution for the previous vote, discarded because of fears that the device would not even work with two people, but now that it's that or just running with Rose, it has greater chances of being voted for.
Kalibrius
God of reflection
- Location
- The other side of the mirror
(LAUGHS) It ain't about being a hero
Giano is our friend, Rose for all their trouble is our client
They are Important to us, It isn't about heroism, just pure selfish altruism
Like he'll we are letting the nitwit vamp Who refuses to even look for other ways forward take people who are Ours!
To put it into words from Ciels thoughts.
Ciel herself estimates that.
1. Help is too far out.
2. She cannot take on Elena.
3. Someone or something has to distract her so that she does not follow.
4. Ciel is too slow to carry both.
The easiest and most obivous thing here of course is the fact that if we sacrifice rose it implies that Ciel thinks she is fast enough to run away while carrying Giano without having Elena catch up to them before they either a. find help or b. get away from her completely.
Same thing with leaving Giano behind. Ciel is not thinking too clearly here and taking acount the fact that rose has the T-corp device and is just estimating that while carrying Rose leaving Giano behind she would gain enough distance from Elena to survive.
And with the previous vote we did gain something. the knowledge that the T-corp device works on multiple people at the same time.
Using it will eliminate the 4. estimation that Ciel has that she is too slow to carry both of them.
Leaving us with numbers 1. 2. and 3. left. of which 3. is the most pressing.
How do you distract Elena from just coming behind us after you have picked both Giano and Rose and ran away with the device.
The thing is Ciel cannot do that as Elena would be able to track Ciel down either trough her own sheer speed or trough the trail that Giano's blood would leave behind.
There has to be something that could distract Elena or that could make is so that we get closer to help.
So the options that i can see succeeding in keeping ciel alive here are.
1. Leave Giano behind to be drained. This option is pure pragmatism, she is wounded and we would be protecting our client. (Giano might also have fixer insurance in case of fatalities, but i would not weigh this heavil for this decision as there is no way to confirm that)
2. Leave Rose behind to be drained. This is a purely selfish option: a. it leaves our client behind to die but protects a good ally and maybe even a friend. ( I would also think that it would not look too bad on the report of the mission Giano would give to Hana as it was our client who went behind our backs to take us to this situation (could be argued as a contract breach) and it would show loyalty to a hana fixer atleast the real motivation nonwithstanding)
3. Definetely the riskisest option is to take the T-corp device from Rose and use it while carrying both of them in order to gain distance from Elena in hopes of creating enough space to think of a better plan to either find some help or something to distract Elena enough with that Ciel can take Giano and Rose away from there. (there is a chance that elena just kills us before Ciel has the chance to pick both of her passangers up or that she is fast enough to catch up to Ciel not giving enough time to make an another plan or find something to distract her with)
Takareer
Words and feathers
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
[X] Refuse and switch the timeline
We can save more, later, should we survive this day.
I was actually expecting this to be a brutal chapter where we have it demonstrated to us that in an infinite number of attempts at an impossible task, there will still be not a single success (as the task is impossible).
We can save more, later, should we survive this day.
I was actually expecting this to be a brutal chapter where we have it demonstrated to us that in an infinite number of attempts at an impossible task, there will still be not a single success (as the task is impossible).
- Location
- Russia
Ok, I calmed down. I still don't like this situation.
People didn't want to sacrifice anyone and pushed Ciel to kill themselves in vain hope that QM decide to play along and do as they want.
It's not only blatant attemp at metagaming, which is not cool, it's also clear sign of disrespect to QM trying to mess narrative and atmosphere of quest.
And now, when it failed people are trying to go back like nothing happend because they, obviously, don't want to end quest like that. Then why did you pushed this decision in the first place?
I'm sorry if my heated word hurted anyone but I refuse to ignore it.
People didn't want to sacrifice anyone and pushed Ciel to kill themselves in vain hope that QM decide to play along and do as they want.
It's not only blatant attemp at metagaming, which is not cool, it's also clear sign of disrespect to QM trying to mess narrative and atmosphere of quest.
And now, when it failed people are trying to go back like nothing happend because they, obviously, don't want to end quest like that. Then why did you pushed this decision in the first place?
I'm sorry if my heated word hurted anyone but I refuse to ignore it.
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Because you got the reasoning wrong?
Seriously, did you see anyone metagaming as you pretend in the discussion before the vote? Did you see us asking Naron *you should make this decision work*?
Also, did you not know that us going back to a previous vote in case of an impossible solution was already in the rules, not from our demands, but from Naron's decision from the get go?
We pushed this decision because we wanted to try to save everyone even if it costs Ciel by injuring them, we weren't expecting the update to offer us a win on a silver platter, we made several references of the chances of us being maimed in the attempt at best.
And by the way, you may have changed the words a little, but you are still insulting the voters decisions making with your comment there, by implying we're whining by not wanting to finish the quest. Seriously Naron was the one that proposed the option to continue if we wanted, we're not whining, we're not fleeing the consequences, we're playing the game as it was intended by the author with his blessing, so stop implying we are somehow forcing the decision or whatever like you are with your way of speaking.
Edit:
Frankly, it's your complaining that doesn't make sense, do you think that people that continue in video games after they died are stupid for doing so? Do you think that *of course they can't accept the consequences so they press continue*?
You are complaining about us using one of the main system that exists in quests to allows people to enjoy them as if it was a grave sin, this is ridiculous, you look like this right now:
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Lalm
Leviathan when Cygames
Well, the annoying lorehound in me wants to say it'd probably require a more foundational shakeup of ciels worldview for that to happen (not like I'd be able to describe their worldview if asked). Ciel's already been shown to be protective so it's kinda already inline with their beliefs. But then again it's just my interpretation and you are the author here.
Anyway while that epilogue has me intrigued, I'd rather the story continue for now.
[X] Refuse and switch the timeline
- Location
- Russia
I was aware of this, yes.
To be clear, I'm not trying to blame anyone here, not in whining, not in breaking/stretching rules.
When I used term "meta gaming" I reffered to abuse timeline switch mechanic to push suicidal decision. Is this a valid way to play this quest? Absolutely. Naron utilized this mechanic in the first place to avoid turtling. We even used it earlier in this quest to do questionable decisions and I have no problems with this.
Elena effortlessly defeated Giano. I'm reasonably sure that nobody would've voted to confront her without knowledge of switching. Overly relying on tool which purpose is preventing quest from crushing through reckless decisions sounds like abuse to me.
While it still a valid way to play this quest it leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
If we need a distraction, then the Gust Ring could probably give us a second by surprising her before she goes in for the kill (and depending on how the T-Corp device works with speeding things up it might even be able to damage her).
Aside from that, the only things we have on hand are our hammer, Giano's broken shield and Steam sword(might be able to block line of sight with steam and/or take a single hit), as well as anything else Giano has on her which we wouldn't really know about. It should also be noted that we're currently at the old Thorn's hideout, so if there were any goodies stashed here (unlikely) or any hidden escape routes (more promising) Rose would likely know about them.
thenew
#1 Masters of the Bazaar Fan
- Location
- My Lodgings
I wasn't voting much in the quest lately, but this really feels like a O-05-47 moment. I don't have any issues with going back- we have died before thanks to the consequences of our own actions and we had no issue with coming back before.
But right now, we really shouldn't be surprised. We went with a suicidal route, and it led to our death. There wasn't really any other outcome when we were doing this in a fight against the Blood-Red Night.
So I hope this is a lesson we learn. I don't blame anyone who is indignant at not facing any real consequences for our actions, and I hope we'll learn from this. I do indeed want to see Ciel reach the top- or at least, I want her to go down in an appropriately dramatic way.
But right now, we really shouldn't be surprised. We went with a suicidal route, and it led to our death. There wasn't really any other outcome when we were doing this in a fight against the Blood-Red Night.
So I hope this is a lesson we learn. I don't blame anyone who is indignant at not facing any real consequences for our actions, and I hope we'll learn from this. I do indeed want to see Ciel reach the top- or at least, I want her to go down in an appropriately dramatic way.
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