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To Shield the World (Warhammer High Elf Mage Quest)

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I love how thoughtful and philosophical Vardanis can be. It's a real strength of the writing.

Fantastic job on Vardanis' ruminations, it was beautiful to read.

Edit: Also, personally, whilst I'm not against Archmage, I prefer the idea of a Loremaster because they can still master all eight winds but they can also do so much more (like wreck face with sword and sorcery in full plate armour) since they have a much broader base of knowledge. I think it'd be a more interesting path to Vardanis' self actualisation because we'd go around learning a bunch of other useful skills (not just martial ones) that feed into out understanding of the world and equip us better to face it.

That said, I'm still reserving judgement till we have a better idea of what Volkirium has in mind as the distinctions.
 
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DeadmanwalkingXI said:
I sort of want to do the sword training first just to get it out of the way. Like, I think we do want to go archmage long term, but I think that also requires a lot of dedication to the path, and I'd like to fit in some martial training first while it's still available and we still have time.
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Sure, but I doubt we'd get our sword fighting at a high enough proficiency to contest other fighters who've dedicated their entire focus to sword fighting. If we need physicality, we can simply pop a spell or eventually transform into some form of powerful beast. Right now, I feel like it's our magical abilities that have been lagging behind, which makes sense, considering how few actions we've actually done to deepen our understanding of it since the beginning of the quest.
 
01paradox01 said:
Sure, but I doubt we'd get our sword fighting at a high enough proficiency to contest other fighters who've dedicated their entire focus to sword fighting. If we need physicality, we can simply pop a spell or eventually transform into some form of powerful beast. Right now, I feel like it's our magical abilities that have been lagging behind, which makes sense, considering how few actions we've actually done to deepen our understanding of it since the beginning of the quest.
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To clarify, are you only talking about what we should focus on for the immediate future without speaking to how things might develop longer term?

If so, I agree. We're a White Tower trained mage, compared to our political rival that's our biggest distinct advantage over him that he does not have and cannot compensate for easily.

Edit: also another important detail is that we need to get better at magic before we can get into that temple, which is a hugely significant thing to pull off.
 
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SoulCaptain said:
To clarify, are you only talking about what we should focus on for the immediate future without speaking to how things might develop longer term?

If so, I agree. We're a White Tower trained mage, compared to our political rival that's our biggest distinct advantage over him that he does not have and cannot compensate for easily.
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Exactly. Sure, we could deviate into sword-fighting, but why now of all times? Like, seriously? Our sole advantage is our magic, deepening that advantage can only be good.
 
SoulCaptain said:
I love how thoughtful and philosophical Vardanis can be. It's a real strength of the writing.

Fantastic job on Vardanis' ruminations, it was beautiful to read.

Edit: Also, personally, whilst I'm not against Archmage, I prefer the idea of a Loremaster because they can still master all eight winds but they can also do so much more (like wreck face with sword and sorcery in full plate armour) since they have a much broader base of knowledge. I think it'd be a more interesting path to Vardanis' self actualisation because we'd go around learning a bunch of other useful skills (not just martial ones) that feed into out understanding of the world and equip us better to face it.

That said, I'm still reserving judgement till we have a better idea of what Volkirium has in mind as the distinctions.
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While I have some real quibbles with the Teclis and Tyrion trilogy, particularly re the world building, I do like how thoughtful everyone is in it; really sells the "we are all very, very old" feeling.

I'd like to think I manage to channel some of that.
 
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I am personally hoping for the Archmage class. I don't mind dipping toes into the alternative but Archmage just seems cooler to me.
 
Voikirium said:
[] The Runestone: The Shadowlanders keep a tight grip on their Runestones but even they cannot fault you for examining what was taken from the Druchii. Strange, arcane stones bearing symbols of power in Eltharin, they are most notably used by Nagarythian mages, Shadow Weavers, to help them dispel the magic of the enemy and that is something you are not uninterested in. (0/3, Procs Ancient Embers, may overflow)
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I think this is worth considering as an option (leaving 2AP to assign elsewhere).

Why?
1) we're a mage and the runestones are a power and methodology that is foreign to us so we'll learn from the experience.

2) Shadow Weavers use them to dispel the magic of their foes. I completely agree with 01paradox01 about how our magecraft is our most distinct advantage over our political rival.

Thus, being able to dispel enemy workings better will help with our status as a mage generally since we can flex on other casters; but also, (and here's the critical part) it also means that our political rivals will have a harder time calling in political favours to obtain the services of a mage in that's capable of beating/humiliating us in the skillset that we're using to push back against them on the political field.

We know they've been expending political capital in the Phoenix Court (which is in Saphery since that's where Aethis is from) so our rivals are not going to be short on access to mages. Being able to dispel means that it'd get far harder for the Ironglaives to humiliate us on our 'home territory' so to speak by bringing in a mage to contest us.

3) It keeps the focus soothed, procs Ancient Embers and thus gives us free overflow which is nice and really more of a side benefit but when taken with the above reasoning it does increase the case for choosing The Runestone.
 
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Voikirium said:
While I have some real quibbles with the Teclis and Tyrion trilogy, particularly re the world building, I do like how thoughtful everyone is in it; really sells the "we are all very, very old" feeling.

I'd like to think I manage to channel some of that.
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I can say wholeheartedly that you're succeeding magnificently in getting those vibes into the writing.

As an aside (and please, feel free not to answer this if you don't want to/you don't have the time, etc), I'm really interested in what your quibbles with the Teclis and Tyrion trilogy's worldbuilding are.
 
SoulCaptain said:
I can say wholeheartedly that you're succeeding magnificently in getting those vibes into the writing.

As an aside (and please, feel free not to answer this if you don't want to/you don't have the time, etc), I'm really interested in what your quibbles with the Teclis and Tyrion trilogy's worldbuilding are.
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Mostly? I really, really hate the idea of the High Elves keeping slaves/indentured servants/whatever. Other stuff will probably come to me after I fall asleep but that's the real big one.
 
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Great chapter. Lays down the situation before us is pretty good detail.

And it all comes back to one thing, that we are lacking in Strength. In Magical Power.

Therefore I'd say we should invest in Art of Two first.

The two other AP we can invest in learning either Mystical or Elemental Aqshy. The reason I advocate Aqshy, is because it is the element most commonly associated with Asuryan. He is, after all, famous for his association with Fire.

If learning Aqshy doesn't seem very interesting, then I'd recommend doing Bits and Bobs with 2 AP, and using the stuff we get to complete Arming the March next turn.

(Btw @Voikirium what kind of Standing does Facing the Lions give? You didn't clarify there)
 
OzymandiasAgain said:
The two other AP we can invest in learning either Mystical or Elemental Aqshy. The reason I advocate Aqshy, is because it is the element most commonly associated with Asuryan. He is, after all, famous for his association with Fire.
(Btw @Voikirium what kind of Standing does Facing the Lions give? You didn't clarify there)
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On the Asuryan front I'd argue Hysh is just as prevalent and, in fact, more appropriate for Asuryan on the mystical side of things. Enemy of daemonic, keeper of the balance and the order of the universe, arbiter of divine justice, sits atop a glittering pyramid, purification, etc etc.

Not disagreeing with your Aqshy point but I wanted to highlight that Hysh has significant relevance to Asuryan too.
 
Vardanis's thoughts on the various methods of magical thought and their benefits and pinnacles is really interesting, the lore is fantastic and you can tell how much he loves magic. Then his thoughts turn to Dhar and how for all it's power the madness isn't worth it and who he doesn't want to be someone obsessed with killing Druchii and having nothing else. Vardanis is a good person for all that he's an abrasive ass sometimes as seen with his thoughts and how he treats the kids. Vardanis's view on his blessing and the consequences of that both personally, politically and in a religious/spiritual/destiny kind of way is very understandable since people noticed by the gods don't tend to have very happy lives.


[] Forging the Sword
-[] Bits and Bobs: 2 AP
-[] The Art of the Blade: 3 AP
[] You speak to Fhiron about the outside world, and the Long March

This was my previous plan and I do think it's good but given Vardanis's thoughts on how risky the Temple is I think it should be put off until Vardanis increases his magical skills and becomes a better weapon maker, that way the sword will be even more potent.

[ ] Stars and Stones
-[] The Runestone: 3 AP
-[] The Metaphor, the Mystic: 2 AP Azyr
[] You speak to Fhiron about the outside world, and the Long March

So this will have Vardanis learning about Runes and Runestones, this will give him a strong anti-magic tool, learning Runes will make Vardanis better at enchanting and making his sword. Then the Mystic view on Azyr will be continuing the work of furthering Vardanis's understanding of Azyr and can be completed in turn 6 with another 3 AP action. Also learning more about Azyr might further decrease the AP for the temple as it already has done so. On a less serious note we also need to talk to our sister about her leaking Vardanis's porn preference, plus we haven't really talked to our sister yet.

For the next while I think focusing on developing Vardanis's skills and abilities with magic will be extremely important. We've done enough to help out Chrace and the family and fight the Druchii but a training montage is needed. There is a limit on the actions that can be taken before either Art of the Blade or Art of Two is completed and I'm pretty okay with that. Vardanis can focus on his understanding of the winds and skills like Runes and Alchemy, these skills are likely going to come in handy in the future and building a solid foundation before advancing seems like a good investment.

An idea for an Enchantment or an effect is something that was inspired from the fight. I would like something that combines Ghur's instinct and Azyr's foresight to get a very potent danger sense.
 
SoulCaptain said:
On the Asuryan front I'd argue Hysh is just as prevalent and, in fact, more appropriate for Asuryan on the mystical side of things. Enemy of daemonic, keeper of the balance and the order of the universe, arbiter of divine justice, sits atop a glittering pyramid, purification, etc etc.

Not disagreeing with your Aqshy point but I wanted to highlight that Hysh has significant relevance to Asuryan too.
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You aren't wrong. And Asuryan isn't really associated with Passion, now, is he?

So Elemental Aqshy, Mystical Hysh?
 
ArcanaVitae said:
[ ] Stars and Stones
-[] The Runestone: 3 AP
-[] The Metaphor, the Mystic: 2 AP Azyr
[] You speak to Fhiron about the outside world, and the Long March

So this will have Vardanis learning about Runes and Runestones, this will give him a strong anti-magic tool, learning Runes will make Vardanis better at enchanting and making his sword. Then the Mystic view on Azyr will be continuing the work of furthering Vardanis's understanding of Azyr and can be completed in turn 6 with another 3 AP action. Also learning more about Azyr might further decrease the AP for the temple as it already has done so. On a less serious note we also need to talk to our sister about her leaking Vardanis's porn preference, plus we haven't really talked to our sister yet.

For the next while I think focusing on developing Vardanis's skills and abilities with magic will be extremely important. We've done enough to help out Chrace and the family and fight the Druchii but a training montage is needed. There is a limit on the actions that can be taken before either Art of the Blade or Art of Two is completed and I'm pretty okay with that. Vardanis can focus on his understanding of the winds and skills like Runes and Alchemy, these skills are likely going to come in handy in the future and building a solid foundation before advancing seems like a good investment.

An idea for an Enchantment or an effect is something that was inspired from the fight. I would like something that combines Ghur's instinct and Azyr's foresight to get a very potent danger sense.
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I honestly don't see the need for doing Runestones to increase our magical ability. It is, at the end of the day, imo, an auxiliary skill that would be good to have, but not central to our identity as a mage.

And yeah, getting Azyr trained is prolly as good as getting any other Wind trained at this point, in my view. There is a slim chance it might finally activate the Sky Seeker trait mechanically, but I have no idea if that's just my whim.

And training Azyr reduced the difficulty of the task to investigate the Temple not just because we learnt Azyr, but because it is a brerakthrough in our Magical understanding in general. Or at least, that's how I view it. Even if it is not, then I'd think getting Elemental Aqshy or Mystical Hysh trained should also help with the temple, and considering it was described as running thick with Qhaysh, learning the Art of Two should also help a lot when seen from that point of view.
 
OzymandiasAgain said:
I honestly don't see the need for doing Runestones to increase our magical ability. It is, at the end of the day, imo, an auxiliary skill that would be good to have, but not central to our identity as a mage.
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Personally, I think a specialised piece of learning in how to dispel is important for our magecraft as well as our political situation.

It'd help with Druchii mages which we're going to run into, political rival mages that we'll probably run into if we are successful in using our magic to oustrip our rival in prestige, understanding how our own spells might be undone will likely provide insights into our own spellcasting; and, more generally, it's a good skill to learn early and have it grow with our magical skill and is highly respectable and admirable in someone pursuiting a magical path to power, whether it's loremaster or archmage (especially when it's from expertise we will not find from the White Tower).

Edit: That said, I see the merits in your argument for why it's not a priority right now (even if I don't entirely agree)

I like it because it's a useful skill for mage stuff at the same time as buffering us against politically motivated mage attacks since their likely will be a response in our main field that our rival does not have access to but their house does (through favours at court if nothing else). And what we need to focus on now is buffering our political position as a holding action, whilst, at the same time growing our magical might until we've gained enough power to win. This helps with both at once and we have two free points left over to invest somewhere else.
 
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SoulCaptain said:
Personally, I think a specialised piece of learning in how to dispel is important for our magecraft as well as our political situation.

It'd help with Druchii mages which we're going to run into, political rival mages that we'll probably run into if we are successful in using our magic to oustrip our rival in prestige, understanding how our own spells might be undone will likely provide insights into our own spellcasting; and, more generally, it's a good skill to learn early and have it grow with our magical skill and is highly respectable and admirable in someone pursuiting a magical path to power, whether it's loremaster or archmage (especially when it's from expertise we will not find from the White Tower).
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It is a good skill, but learning it rn is like putting the cart before the horse. We should first build up our magical power and knowledge and skill and then turn to these skills to supplement them, not start by learning a supplemental skill like Runestone.

We now need magical skill enough to survive challenges from the Champion of Kurnous or explore the Temple. I'd say finally learning Qhaysh or more winds is the better choice at this point of time.
 
OzymandiasAgain said:
It is a good skill, but learning it rn is like putting the cart before the horse. We should first build up our magical power and knowledge and skill and then turn to these skills to supplement them, not start by learning a supplemental skill like Runestone.

We now need magical skill enough to survive challenges from the Champion of Kurnous or explore the Temple. I'd say finally learning Qhaysh or more winds is the better choice at this point of time.
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Well argued.

With regards to your point about cart before the horse, I figure that we can leave The Art of Two until we have a deeper grasp on more Winds since it's mainly focused on orthogonal winds (though not exclusively) - we can already mix a little bit and, well, we probably want to learn to mix when we have more ingredients, so to speak. Let's build our foundation first.

Maybe 4 points into mastering a facet of one of the Winds and then one point to either prep for more magic or to toss into something like Bits and Bobs so we actually have some Crafting Materials for when we need them?

As for social, I figure since it's getting politically hot for us we should either talk to Tethia since her family's at the centre of this political mess; or, we should talk to our parents since, well, things are getting political and we're starting to make waves which has implications for the House - I'm sure they'll have political advice for us too. Also potentially improving Vardanis' relationship with them might save us problems down the line if we act out too much without seeming to pay much attention to our House at all. Plus, our mother and brother have already proven to be far more politically informed than we are so our mother will undoubtedly have information for us to work with, if nothing else.
 
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SoulCaptain said:
Well argued.

With regards to your point about cart before the horse, I figure that we can leave The Art of Two until we have a deeper grasp on more Winds since it's mainly focused on orthogonal winds (though not exclusively) - we can already mix a little bit and, well, we probably want to learn to mix when we have more ingredients, so to speak. Let's build our foundation first.

Maybe 4 points into mastering a facet of one of the Winds and then one point to either prep for more magic or to toss into something like Bits and Bobs so we actually have some Crafting Materials for when we need them?

As for social, I figure since it's getting politically hot for us we should either talk to Tethia since her family's at the centre of this political mess; or, we should talk to our parents since, well, things are getting political and we're starting to make waves which has implications for the House - I'm sure they'll have political advice for us too. Also potentially improving Vardanis' relationship with them might save us problems down the line if we act out too much without seeming to pay much attention to our House at all. Plus, our mother and brother have already proven to be far more politically informed than we are so our mother will undoubtedly have information for us to work with, if nothing else.
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Well, you are not wrong. But considering the availability of the two options early on in the quest, I am forced to believe that the skill required in each Wind for the Art of the Two isn't that great. And we did get a pretty good grasp of Azyr already, so we can learn of the Ghur-Azyr pairing at least.

Still, you do make a good point and it could be a good idea to complete the Mystical Azyr training before attempting Art of Two.

As for political stuff, yeah, our parents seems like they wanted closer ties with the Firemanes, so talking to them probably would be good.
 
OzymandiasAgain said:
Still, you do make a good point and it could be a good idea to complete the Mystical Azyr training before attempting Art of Two.
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I think you mean completing Cardinal Azyr not Mystical? I agree though. It costs us 3 points. That leaves us with 2 more points to put into learning a facet of another Wind (say, just as an example, Mystical Azyr since it's the opposite of Ghur and would feed nicely into Art of Two) and, if we completed that Wind aspect next turn (2 more points) we could do it at same time as learning Art of Two (3 points).

Obviously planning two turns ahead won't necessarily come about the way I hope it will, but pretty much all lower AP magical learning options are gated behind a 3 point investment or a 4 point investment. So with 10AP over the next two turns we could accomplish a 4 pointer and two 3 pointers.

Edit: Our focus is currently soothed too so we probably have some time to do whatever we want.

Edit 2: We could also go full bore on the magic for the next three turns we could complete Cardinal Azyr and learn 3 more magical Aspects each worth 4AP (and we'd still have the Runestones sitting there as a 3AP investment to soothe focus which we'll probably need afterwards.

This is all speculating way too far ahead, mind, since this is a quest, but I was just thinking of the way the numbers might crunch out.
 
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SoulCaptain said:
I think you mean completing Cardinal Azyr not Mystical? I agree though. It costs us 3 points. That leaves us with 2 more points to put into learning a facet of another Wind (say, just as an example, Mystical Azyr since it's the opposite of Ghur) and, if we completed that Wind aspect next turn (2 more points) we could do it at same time as learning Art of Two (3 points).

Obviously planning two turns ahead won't necessarily come about the way I hope it will, but pretty much all lower AP magical learning options are gated behind a 3 point investment or a 4 point investment. So with 10AP over the next two turns we could accomplish a 4 pointer and two 3 pointers.

Edit: Our focus is currently soothed too so we probably have some time to do whatever we want.
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We have gained an understanding of Cardinal Azyr already. We just need to learn the associated spells, which is what that action is chiefly about. I'd say skill in the wind, right now, is what we need rather than specific spells, which is why I suggested Mystical Azyr, which would complete the trio for that specific Wind.

I wouldn't be against Aqshy or Hysh either, as we earlier established they were elements that cleaved closest to Asuryan's domains.
 
OzymandiasAgain said:
We have gained an understanding of Cardinal Azyr already. We just need to learn the associated spells, which is what that action is chiefly about. I'd say skill in the wind, right now, is what we need rather than specific spells, which is why I suggested Mystical Azyr, which would complete the trio for that specific Wind.

I wouldn't be against Aqshy or Hysh either, as we earlier established they were elements that cleaved closest to Asuryan's domains.
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Ah, I understand now - my mistake.

Personally, I favour starting with Hysh (Mystical) because this political fight is extremely theological in nature so starting with Winds/Wind portions that reinforce our theological position/advantages seems like a good bet.
 
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Didn't Vardanis say at one point that the only Wind not associated with Asuryan was Ulgu? I don't think we have to worry too much about which Wind we start with in that respect, just what we think they can do for us in the short term.

And I think when determining plans we should be using our traits as much as possible to save on AP, so we should try to only spend 3AP at once on actions that activate either Beastly Mind or Ancient Embers, unless there's another action that ends up being particularly urgent to get done right that turn.

For now I'm still leaning towards Loremaster, it feels more suited to Vardanis, but I'm definitely still on board with completing both introductory actions in the same turn.
Voikirium said:
Sky Seeker: As a creature of the immediacy of Ghur, you have struggled with Azyr. Narrative effects, for now.
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I guess we need more understanding of Azyr before this upgrades?
Voikirium said:
[] Elemental Puissance: The material manifestation of magical energy, Elemental Magic is simple and straightforward and powerful for it. How difficult can it be to understand, truly? You understood Lightning before you understood the Heavens, after all. (Pick one Wind, begin project to learn Elemental form of that Wind, 0/4, may only begin one such project a time)

[] The Metaphor, the Mystic: The Winds Mystical are that which holds the metaphor of the Winds. It is regarded as a more sophisticated and truer expression of magic by many in Ulthuan, though not to a foolish extent. You are well acquainted with it, many of the spells the White Tower teaches regarding Ghur rely on it and it is near to Cardinal in some ways. (Pick one Wind, begin project to learn Mystical form of that Wind, 0/4, if used for Azyr Procs Sky Seeker, may only learn one such Wind at a time)
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I'm surprised these are so expensive considering Cardinal Azyr only needed 3 AP to obtain. Unless these come with the associated spells automatically.

@Voikirium does Bits and Bobs give us any other benefit outside of explicit Crafting turns, or is it still useful for things like Arming the March or Forging the Loremaster Blade?
 
Karnax626 said:
Didn't Vardanis say at one point that the only Wind not associated with Asuryan was Ulgu?
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No. What you're thinking of is The Death of Draugnir - the performance that Vardanis invented. The hardest role to play is Asuryan since his mage-actor has to be able to wield every wind simultaneously except Ulgu in order to pull off the performance as intended. It reflects Vardanis' rendition of Asuryan's role in a performance which has a specific aesop in mind, rather than reflecting the divine nature of Asuryan proper.

T3 Epic Creation of Note, The Death of Draugnir:
Being a relation of the creation of Ulthuan after the death of Draugnir at the hands Aneth Raema. A proper performance requires a Wizard or Wizards capable of the utilization of all eight Winds, though the most complicated figure is no doubt Asuryan, who at times wields all but one of the Winds: Ulgu. Being a meditation upon the capacity of art and song to lift the world from darkness, the implication is obvious.
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[X] Plan: Ordinance & Occultism
-[X] Arming the March (2)
-[X] The Runestone (3/3)
[X] You speak to Fhiron about the outside world, and the Long March
 
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