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A Light in the End of Time (Warhammer Fantasy/Fate)

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[X] Beowulf
-[X] Berserker
[X] Darius III
-[X] Rider
[X] Mordred Pendragon
-[X] Saber
[X] Sakamoto Ryouma
-[X] Lancer
[X] Sanada Yukimura
-[X] Lancer

Reading through the discussion, this is probably the closest to my personal preference that has a shot at winning.

Something I'll point out is that Bretonnians like, do know guns exist? They even use cannons on their ships. Its just that Knights, the noble class, disdain all ranged weaponry on land due to it being 'unchivalrous'. If you get guns, you could equip your peasant conscripts with them pretty easily. If you go down to Tilea or the Border Princes you could even hire mercs with the ability to drill musket tactics into them, no Nobu required.


*edit
Incidentally, Mordred is kind of hilariously appropriate in Bretonnia. Its just kind of a thing that every so often a dead Knight is discovered to have secretly been a woman, and if I recall correctly there's even some implications that Bretonnians basically straight up ignore evidence of a knight actually being female as long as she's otherwise being A Knight despite their rigid social structure and gender roles. Its just like the Round Table! :V
 
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So right now it looks like Ryouma, Beowulf, Mordred, and Sanada are guaranteed winners, with a three way tie between Nobu, Leo, and Tawara. That sets us up with a strong diplomacy + learning unit with a powerful anti-army NP, an extremely martial focused monster killer, best saberface girl a well balanced knight type character with generally strong stats besides Diplo and Learning + another anti-army NP, and another martially inclined monster killer that also has strong intrigue. This is alongside Martial nerd Shirou Muramasa and Castoria as well.

I feel this lineup might lean a bit too heavy on Martial focused monster killer characters with both Beo and Sanada, when we already have Not-Shirou as well, especially if Nobu wins the tie with his intrigue being better than Sanada's alongside having strengths in other stats as well, besides Martial, which we've really got covered tbh. This issue kinda goes away if Leo or Tawara win the tiebreaker but I still think Nobu is far more useful than Sanada in the long run when we already have so much Martial.

I also don't think we're really taking advantage of some of the absurd options we have, such as the numerous Divine Spirits and Anti-Mountain or greater Noble Phantasms. Is this a push for Ereshkigal? Absolutely, I think she'll be super useful against Nagash, possibly countering Chaos slurping souls, and could function as a very good panic button nuke as needed, especially since her personality is farrrrrrr better than Ishtar's, but this is also just a push for us to have someone, anyone really with a BFG or absurdly powerful, large scale effect while our other characters are more efficiently chosen. Alt examples include Karna, Romulus-Quirinus, Scathach-Skadi, Osakabehime, and anybody who I may have just not thought of
 
An overlap of Martial isn't fundamentally a problem. Rather, we have a militaristic faction whose Heroes compliment one another's specialties.

Muramasa has high Martial, sure, but it'll only function properly when attached to Arturia and deploying her with Downer's potential for cascading failures makes her use a risky gamble regardless of her stats. Use them to manage the home front and let the man run his workshop.

Sanada is probably best deployed as a lone operative, leveraging Intrigue until the time is right for open battle. At that point, he'll be at his most effective as a detached force or rear guard whose comeback mechanic (Deathless) augments Blazing Sengoku Demon's passive shake and break. When in friendly territory use him to train the forces that will be placed under the others' command, but don't leave him in charge of logistics.

Beowulf is an unbreakable and incorruptible champion, immune to penalties from morale and positioning, and will inspire the troops to keep fighting no matter what. A dedicated monster slayer with a supplementary skillset for managing friendly territory. Deploy him and his against Chaos, otherwise use him to secure our holdings.

Mordred is a generalist, if a martially inclined one. Stack the Books supplements passable Stewardship during infrastructure development, Charisma mitigates morale problems, and Clarent ends enemy numbers as an issue. If outnumbered, cut down a battalion with a swing and rout the survivors. If overwhelmingly outnumbered, repeat. Stagger an advance with Beowulf securing one another's flanks, redeveloping conquered lands as they go.

As for the runner-ups:

Tawara isn't a bad result. His martial penalty doesn't apply for duels or monster slaying, and Protection of the Dragon should pair well with Beowulf's anti-monster role and Dragon attribute. Ensuring conquered lands can be cultivated after the fact isn't a bad thing either. Glue him to Beowulf's hip as an anti-monster force, then build back up with the agriculture bonus.

Nobunaga is vulnerable to corruption as an Avenger, but will also auto-purge it. He's no frontline warrior, but the bump to 13 when commanding a rifle battalion coupled with the second die rolling against magic, divine, or lower tech enemies is serviceable if specialized. Keep close to home as a spymaster or deploy to the frontlines alongside Beowulf and Mordred, forming the thickest shaft with which to penetrate hostile territory while Sanada skirts around to the enemy's rear. Doomstacking memes aside, do the former to divide courtly and battlefield Intrigue applications between him and Sanada.

Da Vinci may be a genius, but Arturia is already tied with Cu for the second highest Learning of all sheets we've seen. Our Lord's score in da Vinci's specialty is serviceable, and I just don't see this Caster overtaking the rest on anything else.

There's a reasonable case to be made for either Tawara or Nobunaga as a fifth to the leading four. I view the former as a straight buff to Beowulf, both as a warrior and governor. Nobunaga's a bit more versatile as a (rear line) commander, but the real benefit is a second Intrigue character covering us at court instead of having to choose between holding Sanada back for security or letting him out to do what he's best at. I think the leading four and our default two basically cover us on all other fronts, and Nobu fills out the only gap I see.
 
The issue is that Yukimura's role is to be our spymaster while Nobu is supposed to be our army leader, particularly for handgunners. None of our other picks are army leaders, aside from maybe Mordred, but she's more of a fighter than a strategist. Nobu can't be in two places at once, and I can't accept losing an intrigue specialist given the amount of people who die to assassins, backstabs, and other skulduggery. E.g. Thorgrim Grudgebearer, Valten, Tyrion, and a host of others. This is on top of the intrigue options we would lose out on.

Also, it is kinda odd that our spymaster pick, Yukimura at 16, has higher martial than our general, Nobu at 9/13 with handgunners, and vice versa with intrigue, with 15 vs 17, not including special rules.

I really hope Tawara Touta or some other stewardship option wins, because famine frequently follows war. Peasants get levied into armies, leaving less to till the fields and feed the populace, leading to social disorder and other nasty things. And here's hoping you don't get Skaven or Nurglites into your granaries. (Another reason for intrigue)
 
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I also feel we have plenty of intrigue between Nobu, Castoria, and even Mordred to cover for the "loss" of Sanada, especially when we're essentially sacrificing our opportunity to have a Divine Spirit like Romulus-Quirinus or Ereshkigal, or a potential God Killer with Karna, (and in this setting the benefits of that cannot be understated) for…a fiery ninja who's a bit better at killing Daemons (yes I know I kinda generalized him but still, that generalization isn't wrong). Him and Tawara simply feel almost wasteful, using two Servant slots to fix mundane issues that can be solved by other characters and other means, who fall off the further and further we go.
 
Birthday said:
As long as you're aware that Nobu will inevitably betray us at some point. XD


Oh yeah. Definitely going to betray us.
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Funnily. Nobu was betrayed more than they did the betraying.

Just couldnt catch a break. Brother betrayed twice, technically speaking the Saito did, then Kanbei kinda did, then the Azai brother in law did, then Matsunaga Hisahide did..then the Mitsuhide thing happened. and then Hideyoshi and Ieyasu basically made damn sure their legacy wouldnt reach the higher echelons of power.

Tis a sad Nobu life.
 
We're starting in a kinda-sorta medieval France (with elements of England as well) and nobody voted for the obvious choice?

[X] Jeanne d'Arc
-[X] Ruler
[X] Mordred Pendragon
-[X] Saber
[X] Mata Hari
-[X] Assassin
[X] Cyrus the Great
-[X] Rider
[X] Beowulf
-[X] Berserker

Not sure about the other two choices but I picked Hari because she's more or a spy/scout than somebody you call when you need X number of people face down in their cheerios by tomorrow.* Jeanne is to act as a rallying point and a peacemaker between the 'personalities' that are the Servants. Aside from that we'd need a general to keep the armies in line (and lead them effectively) and somebody who can focus on running the kingdom. Yes, Mordred can do this but I can see her getting bored very quickly.

*A prime example of the latter choice would be Ziusudra/First Hassan.
 
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OkayishGatsby said:
The issue is that Yukimura's role is to be our spymaster while Nobu is supposed to be our army leader, particularly for handgunners. None of our other picks are army leaders, aside from maybe Mordred, but she's more of a fighter than a strategist. Nobu can't be in two places at once, and I can't accept losing an intrigue specialist given the amount of people who die to assassins, backstabs, and other skulduggery. E.g. Thorgrim Grudgebearer, Valten, Tyrion, and a host of others. This is on top of the intrigue options we would lose out on.

Also, it is kinda odd that our spymaster pick, Yukimura at 16, has higher martial than our general, Nobu at 9/13 with handgunners, and vice versa with intrigue, with 15 vs 17, not including special rules.

I really hope Tawara Touta or some other stewardship option wins, because famine frequently follows war. Peasants get levied into armies, leaving less to till the fields and feed the populace, leading to social disorder and other nasty things. And here's hoping you don't get Skaven or Nurglites into your granaries. (Another reason for intrigue)
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Yukimura is also one of the top... not sure of the word. Army fighty people of that era, and that means a lot for a Servant. Something something, title's hundred year hero, probably means is a once-in-a-century type, yada yada.
In terms of Intrigue, they do different things. IIRC, Nobunaga's good at managing a court (Until Mitsuhide, at least), but isn't exactly a "Sneak behind enemy lines" type like what Sanada can do.
 
Okay, stuff it, I'm weighing in on this cause I'm sick of it. People keep talking past each other and its driving me nuts.

Romulus-Quirinus: Crown servant, literally not available to you. That's the worlds decision, not yours. I was exceptionally clear the last time this was brought up. I won't be happy to bring it up a third time.
Ereshkigal: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA there are not words for how bad an idea putting someone vulnerable to Nurgle and Nagash, both of whom are more powerful gods here, in your party. If you want to make yourself Nagash's first port of call be my guest. The guy literally eats deities.
Karna: Intrigue 0. Nothing else needs to be said. Couple that with Visavi Shakti being one use and you're guaranteeing someone else will have Arjuna...

Sanada: Literally has a skill that gives him Intrigue options other characters do not. Literally the only other picks you guys even forwarded with some traction that have alternate intrigue options is Hassan and Ryouma (Well, and Oberon, but he's... different to use).

There is a case for min maxing party abilities. There's also a case for considering what your local area actually is. Your initial opponent is Tzentech, as per the Year of Woe, and other Bretannians. The Nobunaga pick actually had more logic behind it then a lot of you are willing to acknowledge. On the flipside, picking heroes that aren't immediately going to murder each other or ditch is also a pretty good case for picking someone. This should have been fairly obvious when people read the Cu and Arjuna sheets and noticed the glaring omission of the benefits they get as a divinity, but gods of another world don't actually bring that much with them. Heck the eagle eyed probably noticed it when Artoria's sheet lacked her faerie authority.

Like, I'm willing to roll with what you guys want to do, but at least talk to each other rather then past each other.

OkayishGatsby said:
Also, it is kinda odd that our spymaster pick, Yukimura at 16, has higher martial than our general, Nobu at 9/13 with handgunners, and vice versa with intrigue, with 15 vs 17, not including special rules.
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A general is not always the best pick to actually fight in the war on the front line. The spymaster might not be good at every aspect of intrigue. By ignoring the special rules you literally took both scores out of context. The sheets aren't meant to be read in parts.

Now I'm returning to trying to rest off drinking a whole bottle of sake last night. Can we actually talk and listen to each other instead of talking past each other now? Like, I feel like half a dozen problems coulda been solved by just asking.
 
BlackHadou said:
Romulus-Quirinus: Crown servant, literally not available to you. That's the worlds decision, not yours. I was exceptionally clear the last time this was brought up. I won't be happy to bring it up a third time.
Ereshkigal: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA there are not words for how bad an idea putting someone vulnerable to Nurgle and Nagash, both of whom are more powerful gods here, in your party. If you want to make yourself Nagash's first port of call be my guest. The guy literally eats deities.
Karna: Intrigue 0. Nothing else needs to be said. Couple that with Visavi Shakti being one use and you're guaranteeing someone else will have Arjuna...
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Sorry about the Quirinus thing, I had assumed he was an option since he gave up his title as Grand Lancer and had technically become a "normal" servant, if absurdly powerful, but I hadn't realized Ereshkigal would be explicitly vulnerable to Nurgle and Nagash since she hadn't gotten enough votes to earn a stat sheet. And yeah, intrigue 0 is…..ouch. I should've realized it was that bad, but hadn't really been thinking it'd be that bad.
 
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[X] Beowulf
-[X] Berserker
[X] Darius III
-[X] Rider
[X] Jeanne d'Arc
-[X] Ruler
[X] Leonardo DaVinci
-[X] Caster
[X] Cyrus the Great
-[X] Rider

Cyrus I'm putting in as Rider based on his expedition, as the only other class I can think of would be Ruler, maybe Caster. Likely this shows my ignorance.
jwolfe_beta said:
We're starting in a kinda-sorta medieval France (with elements of England as well) and nobody voted for the obvious choice?

[X] Jeanne d'Arc
-[X] Ruler
[X] Mordred Pendragon
-[X] Saber
[X] Mata Hari
-[X] Assassin
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Just a note, you need five Servants for your vote to count.
 
TheCynicalPogo said:
but I hadn't realized Ereshkigal would be explicitly vulnerable to Nurgle and Nagash since she hadn't gotten enough votes to earn a stat sheet.
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This is mostly because she runs counter to Nurgle's domain (he is a friend to the living, after all, and Ereshkigal is the harbinger of death). Being on Nagash's radar is just always bad news, and she is by definition on his radar.

TheCynicalPogo said:
Sorry about the Quirinus thing, I had assumed he was an option since he gave up his title as Grand Lancer and had technically become a "normal" servant, if absurdly powerful
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No, you'd get a human Quirinus. The Crown Servant version just isn't happening. Don't mistake pseudo laziness on the FGO devs side for how powerful a Servant is. Even in LB5, Quirinus was summoned to assist in reinstating human order. The amount of Counterforce intervention involved truly must have been bullshit.

Sure, he'd be more coherent then his silver version, but he would be nowhere near the power he displayed fighting Zeus. Likewise, getting Super Orion straight up isn't possible, and King Hassan, well, you're kidding yourself. You probably could get Taigong Wang if you really wanted, but that's more my biases showing. Likewise, attempting to get Solomon will miss.

Now, getting an Orion is easy. It just wouldn't be the hero that shot down god. King Hassan, though, just isn't happening. His combination of immunities simply negate to much of the quest for me to consider it fun.

... I suppose I could be bribed on the Solomon front, I'll admit.

TheCynicalPogo said:
And yeah, intrigue 0 is…..ouch. I should've realized it was that bad, but hadn't really been thinking it'd be that bad.
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Karna never lies. Karna never plots. Karna acts as asked.

Reality is, Nasu Karna is the ultimate doormat. If you need someone who always sees the truth, he's your guy, but I'm not sure that's what any of you want. Otherwise, he warps the battlefield around his presence, true, but he's so powerful he starts to fall into Herakles pitfalls of a Servant can't possibly contain all of him, so aspects are cut.

... Wow I'm rambling.
 
BlackHadou said:
A general is not always the best pick to actually fight in the war on the front line. The spymaster might not be good at every aspect of intrigue. By ignoring the special rules you literally took both scores out of context. The sheets aren't meant to be read in parts.
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That's why I specified without the rules. It looked funny removed from context. I'm sorry, I did not mean to be pedantic.
 
BlackHadou said:
This is mostly because she runs counter to Nurgle's domain (he is a friend to the living, after all, and Ereshkigal is the harbinger of death). Being on Nagash's radar is just always bad news, and she is by definition on his radar.


No, you'd get a human Quirinus. The Crown Servant version just isn't happening. Don't mistake pseudo laziness on the FGO devs side for how powerful a Servant is. Even in LB5, Quirinus was summoned to assist in reinstating human order. The amount of Counterforce intervention involved truly must have been bullshit.

Sure, he'd be more coherent then his silver version, but he would be nowhere near the power he displayed fighting Zeus. Likewise, getting Super Orion straight up isn't possible, and King Hassan, well, you're kidding yourself. You probably could get Taigong Wang if you really wanted, but that's more my biases showing. Likewise, attempting to get Solomon will miss.

Now, getting an Orion is easy. It just wouldn't be the hero that shot down god. King Hassan, though, just isn't happening. His combination of immunities simply negate to much of the quest for me to consider it fun.

... I suppose I could be bribed on the Solomon front, I'll admit.
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Honestly with Solomon's whole "actually fully 100 million percent died completely" character arc I hadn't even briefly considered him lmao. Dismissed Orion too after the Grand statement since normal "Orion" would either be a flighty Divine Spirit whose personality could be troublesome, or some other aspect of his legend, not the "Hunter who shot down God" like you mentioned.

Also I do gotta check, being on Nagash's radar isn't necessarily…a thing atm, unless there's some timeline shifts? Since iirc he isn't even brought back to life until 2524, 4 years from now if we're starting in the Time of Woe. He should be a preventable enemy (barring shenanigans on your part to spice things up of course!) if we can stop Mannlet and Arkan from reviving him, so I'm less worried about Ereshkigal on that front. The attention of Nurgle when we're already dealing with Tzeentch does however make me wary of wanting her, though her presumed benefits against undead (if we can somehow prevent Nagash's return, something said benefits could certainly help with) still make her gamble worthwhile in my eyes…maybe.
 
I make no presumptions about your ability to change things, and being on Arkan's radar isn't really much better. Preventing Nagash's return is more then a case of 'start with x servant and ignore it entirely', especially when at that point there will be competing priorities.

There's also the part where I was kinda explicit with the Ursun roar that 'Daniel' was running around. :V

... Far out I got myself into something with so many moving parts.
 
BlackHadou said:
I make no presumptions about your ability to change things, and being on Arkan's radar isn't really much better. Preventing Nagash's return is more then a case of 'start with x servant and ignore it entirely', especially when at that point there will be competing priorities.

There's also the part where I was kinda explicit with the Ursun roar that 'Daniel' was running around. :V

... Far out I got myself into something with so many moving parts.
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Ohhhhhhh shit I forgot about Daniel. For as utterly trash as he is in Immortal Empires, lore wise that boi fucks (figuratively and literally if he's Slaanesh focused). With the conceptual wonkiness of Servants too I assume that'd be…bad, if we let Ereshkigal fight him. Hmm. I'll have to think about this. I still think she'd be very useful of course, but her gamble certainly seems to be a bigger one than I thought
 
[X] Mordred Pendragon
-[X] Saber
[X] Sakamoto Ryouma
-[X] Lancer
[X] Oda Nobunaga
-[X] Avenger
[X] Beowulf
-[X] Berserker
[X] Leonardo DaVinci
-[X] Caster
 
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Question for the GM actually, surprised nobody's asked this, unless I missed some info somewhere (and in that case my b), will this initial batch be our only round of servants? Or are we liable to be able to eventually obtain more? I don't think anything's been said yet on this but very very sorry if it has!
 
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