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Breaker of Chains (30k Angron Quest)

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Always Late said:
In fairness, this was voted as a solution, so there's the distinct possibility that Lorgar's existing theocracy will replace the bargain and have the whole person-vs-god erosion.

But between the two ideas, I know which one in my head comes with a theme song and ultraviolence.
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Angron: "Hey guys, how's your health plan?"
Imperial Army and/or Chaos cultists: "ATTACK!!"
"APPARENTLY IT'S GREAT!!"
 
Hell yeah, we're gonna make our own god, with enjoyable but not debilitating games of chance and skill, and post-scarcity professional sex workers treated with dignity and respect!

Also: letting a Greater Daemon of Tzeentch skate is a terrible idea, enslaving anyone is not an option, and walking away is an abdication of responsibility. I love Tchar as a character and I'll miss him dearly, but he's gotta die.
 
The3rdCorinthian said:
Anyway, regardless of whether or not we agree with Lorgar's Gigabrain plan, we're murdering the shit outta birdbrain, right?
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If you disagree with Lorgar's plan, you shouldn't vote to kill Tchar.
Maugan Ra said:
"Foolish child," Tchar growls, the singularity twisting into the shape of a great tiger, a beast that prowls around inside a cage you cannot see, "You know not what you do. To take up the Anathema's power will bind you in chains stronger than you can imagine. To wield the power of a god always comes with a cost. You think it is one you are willing to pay, but you do not even know what it is."
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Tchar is explicitly saying that by killing him, we'll be stepping into Lorgar's plan. If we don't want to, we can just free him - he's made a bargain, and he does not break those. If he's promised he would destroy all his ties to the Legion, he will.
But well. It's as Lorgar said...
Maugan Ra said:
"You asked for a solution, Angron. This is what I offer you. Take this blade, this sword of our treasured dream, and strike the daemon down. It will free your Legion, sever any claim to Ghreer's soul… and, I think, serve as proof to us both that a better future is possible."
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If we do kill Tchar, not only will the Legion be freed, but we will have proved that the Emperor/Chaos dichotomy is bullshit. That there is a way to fight Chaos that doesn't involve having the head psychopath in charge.
Well, I can't say no to that.

[ ] Slay Tchar
 
Nervos Belli said:
Alternatively, Tzeentch feels that being enslaved is the worst outcome for him and deliberately phrased it that way to make the option unappealing to Angron.
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That tracks, Tzeentch is all about change first and foremost, and becoming a Slave would bind him to a single goal, will, and possibly form for the foreseeable future. Maybe not as bad as a cessation of existence, but easily a close second.
 
Always Late said:
We're not doing the ritual, I'm mostly sure. But we are taking away the bargain of Angron not going on a murderous rampage every time he enters the Warp, right before Horus hauls us into the Vengeful Spirit.

So even more reasons to kill birb, first rampage will be amongst assholes!
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Worth noting, that was very vocally not a bargain. Angron was already managing to maintain some clarity, and refuted any and all concept of Debt to Tchar there. Angron should very much hold onto himself, because that was him figuring out how to work past the Nails.
[ ] Eyes Unclouded. There is intent in his suffering, in the artifice that wrought the nails in his skull. On the edge of madness he will find it, and in finding it understand it, and in understanding it see past it. This is just one more challenge to overcome.
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"I spoke no prayers," you growl, unwilling to accept even the implicit bargain this thing suggests. You were never one of the wise men, never concerned yourself with bargains made and struck with those whispering things that come to a prisoner in the darkest of his nights, but you know enough to deny them even the pretense of a hold upon your soul. "I made no entreaties. There is no debt or bond between us."
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"Without me," you spit, though you lack lips or tongue or jaw, "not us, spirit, me. I alone, I with my brothers and my sisters, I did that. Not you. Never you."
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It vanishes, and with it goes the fire, and all that is left in its wake is the endless void and the weight of your sins. You want to rage, to roar and scream and tear at your chains, but… what would that achieve? How would it be better than what came before? What do you have to lose?

You bow your head, and think of your conversation with the Magos, though be it a day ago or a month you have no way to tell. What was it the machine-thing said? Life is directed motion? So be it. For years you have allowed others to steer your course; at first it was the lash, then it was the lure of the approving crowd, then it was the need for freedom and the desperate hunger for vengeance. All of that is behind you now, and with it the grave of friend and foe alike. It is time to find another cause to direct you, to choose your own path in this life.

It is time to start living.
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From all the Language that Lorgar is using it is possible that what is going to happen is that should Angron ascend many of his brothers will try to ascend as well. Do any of us really think that certain Brothers won't try and usurp Angron? Just from thinking about it, I believe we will be seeing a Greek/Egyptian Pantheon event coming to being. With Horus trying to become a top god.
 
I am all aboard the Lorgar train. Take the sword and Slay Tchar.

I find it fittingly hilarious that we will use the Emperor's power to slay daemons, and still manage to annoy and betray him in the process.
 
I have a bold proposal for the name of this new God, @Maugan Ra . It's a little unorthodox, but if you think about it this God is going to be a Symbol or Sigil of equality, of freedom, of fighting for what's right, one that will never be Marred or corrupted.

So may I suggest Sigmar?
 
AHHHHHHHH Such a FUN update!

Loved every moment of it. Lorgar is right but not quite fully right, imo.

We desperately wanted to get rid of Tchar and his claim on our legion. Now is our time to strike. If we do this we undoubtedly true death him. Binding him is dangerous, just look at the Laer Blade, and leaving him shackled is not a solution any of us like.
 
The Laurent said:
I have a bold proposal for the name of this new God, @Maugan Ra . It's a little unorthodox, but if you think about it this God is going to be a Symbol or Sigil of equality, of freedom, of fighting for what's right, one that will never be Marred or corrupted.

So may I suggest Sigmar?
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Even in the Grim Dark future, in which there is only war, Sigmar continues to T-pose over the God Emperor.

All is right with the universe.

Edit: And whilst it's been pointed out the similarity to Emps, Angrons journey from Barbarian to Leader also has some parralels with Sigmar going from Conan expy to forming the Empire.
 
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HelioA said:
One unintended consequence of this that may come to mind- what will Magnus think of all this? We know in-character that he's very connected to daemons, and out of character we know that he's not nearly as careful with daemons as he should be, with Tzeentch especially. What will he think of us doing the metaphorical equivalent of murdering our banker to get out of paying back a loan?
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To be fair, it might be the equivalent of murdering the banker Magnus happens to owe some hefty debts to lmao
 
The3rdCorinthian said:
Even in the Grim Dark future, in which there is only war, Sigmar continues to T-pose over the God Emperor.

All is right with the universe.

Edit: And whilst it's been pointed out the similarity to Emps, Angrons journey from Barbarian to Leader also has some parralels with Sigmar going from Conan expy to forming the Empire.
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That makes me even more keen to do the god path.We will be forever known as Angron Murderaxe god of humanity,axes and being an all around good person.I mean we already have a well sized empire formed through diplomacy,war and our generosity with us also being pretty merciful to theose we conquered and having a vibrant mix of cultures.
 
I feel like a lot of the discussion so far is contingent on the fact that we know tchar is completely evil-but Angron doesn't, he thinks we would be backstabbing someone who's generally been good to us.

Maugan Ra said:
You freeze. Will you… can you do that? Never before have you seen Tchar so unbalanced, so terrified. It fears the sword in your hands, what it will mean if you strike it down. That is power, a power you have never had in all your dealings with this creature, and yet… Can you truly wield such power and still call yourself Angron? Can you slay an ally on suspicion, bind a spirit in chains, and look your reflection in the eye? Is that what the daemon warns you of, speaking of the Anathema's power and its price? Or are these yet more lies, more misdirections?
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I still want to kill Tchar, but I think this is a harder choice for Angron than we're acknowledging.
 
HelioA said:
I feel like a lot of the discussion so far is contingent on the fact that we know tchar is completely evil-but Angron doesn't, he thinks we would be backstabbing someone who's generally been good to us.



I still want to kill Tchar, but I think this is a harder choice for Angron than we're acknowledging.
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If Possible we might be able to speak to it first. I'm very firmly on Kill Tchar first but if if it continues to speak on it's last point, how Angron can become a High Rider, that could be all the Proof Angron needs to kill it.

In short, give it just enough rope to hang itself.
 
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