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Animus Ex Nihilo - A God Quest

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Amilia said:
Why are we not ready? What are we missing? The Healing Domain isn't any more effective than the Sea Domain and getting Death to Rank 3 is going to take too long even if we beeline for it. So I ask, what would we need before we are 'ready'?

Edit: In fact, I'm going to ask the thread as a whole. When are we going to be strong enough to fight the Devourer? I don't want any vague notions of 'when we are stronger', I want an actual stat that makes us say 'okay, we are ready'. Because at this point we'll never be enough for the Devourer from how the thread hypes it up.

And remember: the Healing domain won't do shit in the actual fight.
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If we don't take the fight here, and now I'm pretty sure there isn't a scenario in which the thread is comfortable in forcing a fight with the Devourer as if they refuse to engage in a 4 v 1 when the Devourer is either of equal or only slightly superior strength to Proud Waters they'll never take the fight to the Devourer. Therefore, the fight with the Devourer will only occur when it comes for us, and in no other scenario, a scenario I'd note where we're going to be at a severe disadvantage as we've entirely ceded the initiative to the Devourer meaning this fight will only ever come at the most inopportune moment for us, and the most opportune moment for the Devourer.

On, that dower note I've found a theme song for our hunt of the Devourer.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoC8OBjs7Iw
 
Might be reading a bit too much into this, but just wondering @Azel. Obviously the mutual proselytizing part of our alliance thing means we wouldn't interfere with the efforts of each other's shamans or harm them, but is there anything preventing Mountain from just...punishing his people if they try to convert to us?
 
I really do not think we should go after the Devourer off hand like this. With the way we have played, as a deal maker who sought allies among the other local spirits we are likely behind the curve in raw power to something as focused on its own power as the Devourer. We should take it on with allies like we did the wind monster... which even new born was as strong as we are now.
 
Sir LagsAlot said:
So you want us to wait like half a dozen or more turns for the Devourer to spawn more servants capable of matching each individual god in our alliance so that we can go in with a domain one rank stronger... Dude, that just doesn't make any sense when we can go in right now with three gods to force a three versus one scenario where even if we are individually weaker than the Devourer which is not guaranteed* we'll still probably win because its two gods with rank two domains, a god with a rank one domain, and a herald with a rank two domain which is just not the kind of advantage a one rank gap can cover for even just on health alone.

*We can make a Carrion Bird after all if we invested the power into it and had the know-how so the Devourer easily could still be a rank two domain god.
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Here's why I think the Devourer is beyond us at the moment.
Azel said:
[] Compel sacrifices.
Description: Use curses and other means to force the people to make greater sacrifices to you, thus gaining power from them.
Area: Shorelands, Mountains
Domains: -
Power: -4 max
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This is our one power-gaining punishment at the moment. Merely compelling sacrifices gives us 4 power. The Devourer on the other hand has been feeding off of terror and carnage, wiping out entire villages in his rampages and making everyone else look to the skies in constant apprehension. Not only that, he seemingly has a secret cult among the various peoples if the burial rites issue is anything to go off of. Imagine how much power you'd get off of actions like that.

This not only went into making the Carrion Bird thing which at the time exceeded our power, it only makes sense he's been deepening his own command over Death and Wind as well. He quite literally would have the power to spare, and he doesn't give a damn about people withering away when he doesn't pay attention because all they are to him is food, and there's always more food. I'm fairly sure that might be the main reason he didn't pick us off yet. In the barest sense, he is a tick and we're a continually filling bag of blood.
 
DragonParadox said:
I really do not think we should go after the Devourer off hand like this. With the way we have played, as a deal maker who sought allies among the other local spirits we are likely behind the curve in raw power to something as focused on its own power as the Devourer. We should take it on with allies like we did the wind monster... which even new born was as strong as we are now.
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They are all coming with us this is old word of god from even when we first got the action that upon discovery of the Devourer we will be allowed to vote on who we want to bring to the fight and the like that is why I've continuously run around repeating that this will be a 4 versus 1 fight and have not had anyone breathing down my neck on the subject.
Duesal said:
Here's why I think the Devourer is beyond us at the moment.

This is our one power-gaining punishment at the moment. Merely compelling sacrifices gives us 4 power. The Devourer on the other hand has been feeding off of terror and carnage, wiping out entire villages in his rampages and making everyone else look to the skies in constant apprehension. Not only that, he seemingly has a secret cult among the various peoples if the burial rites issue is anything to go off of. Imagine how much power you'd get off of actions like that.

This not only went into making the Carrion Bird thing which at the time exceeded our power, it only makes sense he's been deepening his own command over Death and Wind as well. He quite literally would have the power to spare, and he doesn't give a damn about people withering away when he doesn't pay attention because all they are to him is food, and there's always more food. I'm fairly sure that might be the main reason he didn't pick us off yet. In the barest sense, he is a tick and we're a continually filling bag of blood.
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Alright, first off I'd point out that terror doesn't seem to give a ton of power if it did we should have gotten a power action for it as you can't really sink lower than human sacrifice so there's no reason for us to not have the ability to spread fear for the purposes of greater power gain if we so wish if we are already capable of compelling sacrifice. Second, I'd note that specifically in this update it was noted that the snuffing of life by Proud Waters provides such minuscule amounts of power as to be practically useless so the Devourer was not gaining power from this either.

Third, I'd note that of the cults we've been made aware of which are the former forest people, and a portion of the present mountain people that to our knowledge their power went towards funding their respective death gods which is not a cheap thing we've been informed of this, and they were small cults at that so they wouldn't have been generating much power in the first place even before we get into how we've checked over our own people for cultists yet found none which further cuts down on any theoretical power generation.

Fourth, no it does not make sense that he would necessarily be deepening his command over Death, and Cold I would note not Wind as those are the Devourers' domains, not Death, and Wind as the power to gain a third rank domain is immense even for someone like Proud Waters who should have a massive power income compared to most. But, even presuming he has gained two third rank domains that is still within acceptable parameters for us to win this battle as again this being a four versus one means a single domain tier gap will not be enough to carry the day just as it was not enough during the three versus one we had against the Carrion Bird.

And, lastly even presuming everything you say here is literally WoG for some reason I have to ask you a very important question. Why, does this matter? You have not laid out any reason, not reasons even a singular reason for why any of this means we should delay our hunt of the Devourer as to our knowledge, and even supported by many of your own statements here the difference in power between our alliance, and the Devourer should only grow in his favor if we give him further time to prepare as there is no feasible way for our alliance to grow in combat power for many further turns that wouldn't be outpaced by the Devourers' ability to print Proud Waters level gods.

Edit: You know what I don't even need a response this long to rebut this post feel free to read it if you wish but I think I can do this in one paragraph.

If, we do not fight the Devourer now Duesal when to our knowledge it does not have any support because we do not think we are strong enough to win a 4 versus 1 battle. When, will we be strong enough? And, what is your plan to achieve this level of strength?
 
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@DragonParadox @Duesal What steps and milestones would you suggest is enough strength to take on the Devourer? He just expended a lot of power on creating the Carrion Bird, now is the best time to strike before any other intricate plans are made.

The healing domain will not be useful in the God battle. So what exactly are you aiming for to gain 'strength'? Tier 2 Death domain is already potent enough with allied support.
 
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TheDuke said:
Might be reading a bit too much into this, but just wondering @Azel. Obviously the mutual proselytizing part of our alliance thing means we wouldn't interfere with the efforts of each other's shamans or harm them, but is there anything preventing Mountain from just...punishing his people if they try to convert to us?
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Yes, as that too would count as interfering with the work of your shamans.
 
Resonant said:
@DragonParadox @Duesal What steps and milestones would you suggest is enough strength to take on the Devourer? He just expended a lot of power on creating the Carrion Bird, now is the best time to strike before any other intricate plans are made.
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We do not know that he expended that power, in fact given the sheer amount of dice used in that ritual I think it is more likely than a third party made both the Devourer and the Carrion Bird.
 
DragonParadox said:
We do not know that he expended that power, in fact given the sheer amount of dice used in that ritual I think it is more likely than a third party made both the Devourer and the Carrion Bird.
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Please answer the relevant question: what concrete milestones do you have for setting the bar for enough strength?

Increased power generation/worship doesn't translate to combat power. The most relevant stat is Domain tiers/ranks, which we've got Rank 2 Death. Only one domain is usable so higher tier Sea/Healing aren't relevant. Unless you're planning to grab Rank 3 Death which costs a whopping 16 Power, we're already best prepared right now.

All I'm seeing is vague assertions of needing more strength, so the next question is what steps are you suggesting to achieve that?
 
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Resonant said:
Please answer the relevant question: what concrete milestones do you have for setting the bar for enough strength?

Increased power generation/worship doesn't translate to combat power. The most relevant stat is Domain tiers, which we've got Tier 2 Death. Only one domain is usable so higher tier Sea/Healing aren't relevant.

All I'm seeing is vague assertions of needing more strength, so the next question is what steps are you suggesting to achieve that?
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I think we should at the very least get healing so that when our allies get wounded in battle we can heal them back up and outlast the Devourer. Fights don't just have to be about who can punch harder after all and 'four people gang up on a single stronger opponent' is like the standard D&D boss fight. It would be nice to have a healer in that.
 
DragonParadox said:
We do not know that he expended that power, in fact given the sheer amount of dice used in that ritual I think it is more likely than a third party made both the Devourer and the Carrion Bird.
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I object strongly to this statement. Proud Waters is just as capable of producing that many dice for an action so long as they have the necessary power in fact I would point out we have actions that require far more power with multiple actions requiring us to invest 6, 8, 12, and 16 power compared to the mere 5 power of the ritual.
DragonParadox said:
I think we should at the very least get healing so that when our allies get wounded in battle we can heal them back up and outlast the Devourer. Fights don't just have to be about who can punch harder after all and 'four people gang up on a single stronger opponent' is like the standard D&D boss fight. It would be nice to have a healer in that.
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Proud Waters is the main source of damage mitigation in that fight you'd most likely take more damage taking him off of countering the Devourer's death domain with his own than you'd gain from him using his healing domain to heal others especially due to the rank disparity. I'd also point out that we are likely bringing enough fighters to simply nullify all damage done by the Devourer anyways as if the defender's roll exceeds the attacker's under this system damage is simply nullified, and even with a third rank domain the Devourer should be only rolling 1 more die on average than the vast majority of all fighters present in the battle an advantage that should be relatively easy to overcome with the bonuses from the other three fighters present.
 
Two things I would like to clarify:
- Compel Sacrifices is indeed the action to terrorize people into giving you power, so evidently that is a thing you can do. Proud Waters even noted in last turns results that scaring people is vastly more power efficient than just straight up murdering them.
- Proud waters has a 1 / 4 / 1 nature, and you have no idea right now if power gain works exactly the same way for beings that have a different dominant nature than Mercenary. After all, you only learned to draw power from terrorizing people after gaining a point of Punishing for yourself. Heck, you are not even certain how the Sky Child gets their power, as they don't have any shrines and those are a massive power multiplier for Proud Waters.

So, I'd like to point out that all statements made on how much power Skerhogis gains are rather speculative.
 
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