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No, SV, You Are the Forest! (Riot Quest)

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Prime 2.0 said:
I know it might be outside your specialty, but if you could instead vote for [X][Action] Research the Laser Power (Crystal, Light, Magnetic)* , you'd tip the scales so the 50-ish ingaba research go towards that and help get our weapons online in case the folks that have the ingaba worried come knocking.

Hopefully a mind tree comes by and lets you switch back, but we're very close to the vote being called, so if you could help us out here that'd be mighty appreciated. Don't worry - we have enough votes to upgrade the worm to level 3 this turn already, they'll understand.
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I see you Prime, I know of your past exploits regarding the, per questing time, ancient Iliad quest. I see the effort you have put forth in mapping out optimal paths for a riot quest of this scale.

I will swap my vote for this, but know that my sorrow will be immense if I missed out on a Elder tree that could only be accessed by voting for the worm at every turn.

[X][Action] Research the Laser Power (Crystal, Light, Magnetic)*
 
Froggo Fantastic said:
I see you Prime, I know of your past exploits regarding the, per questing time, ancient Iliad quest. I see the effort you have put forth in mapping out optimal paths for a riot quest of this scale.

I will swap my vote for this, but know that my sorrow will be immense if I missed out on a Elder tree that could only be accessed by voting for the worm at every turn.

[X][Action] Research the Laser Power (Crystal, Light, Magnetic)*
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Thanks man, you're a lifesaver.
 
Froggo Fantastic said:
I see you Prime, I know of your past exploits regarding the, per questing time, ancient Iliad quest. I see the effort you have put forth in mapping out optimal paths for a riot quest of this scale.

I will swap my vote for this, but know that my sorrow will be immense if I missed out on a Elder tree that could only be accessed by voting for the worm at every turn.

[X][Action] Research the Laser Power (Crystal, Light, Magnetic)*
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Dude, I'll jump on that grenade for you!

[X][Action] Research the Laser Power (Crystal, Light, Magnetic)*
[X] Heart Tree
3251HEART POWER!
 
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Sightsear said:
Dude, I'll jump on that grenade for you!

[X][Action] Research the Laser Power (Crystal, Light, Magnetic)*
[X] Heart Tree
3251HEART POWER!
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Thanks!

That said, now that we have another day to try and switch over to the revised plan, if you and Froggo could also add in the following focus vote, that would be super appreciated:
[][FOCUS] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree
[][FOCUS] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree x2
[][FOCUS] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree x3

The difference, particularly if we get 7 "upgrade elder collector tree" successes, is enough that we could have a spare focus action to work with in a few turns in case we need to shoot lasers harder - or for growing anything else we might want, really.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Doccer on Mar 11, 2021 at 12:04 AM, finished with 207 posts and 114 votes.
Action Focus Tree
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RebelYell said:
Welp back to researching reflecting tree for me with enough dudes on laser's.
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I'd advise waiting on that, since one or both of them may switch back. They're heart trees, not mind trees, after all.

Even more to the point, since we're in striking distance of completing laser power this turn, as a mind tree your dice could make that difference.
 
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Froggo Fantastic said:
I see you Prime, I know of your past exploits regarding the, per questing time, ancient Iliad quest. I see the effort you have put forth in mapping out optimal paths for a riot quest of this scale.

I will swap my vote for this, but know that my sorrow will be immense if I missed out on a Elder tree that could only be accessed by voting for the worm at every turn.
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You're trying to become an Eldritch Cultist Tree?
 
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[X][FOCUS] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree
[X][FOCUS] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree x2
[X][FOCUS] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree x3

adding this to my vote aince math peps say its optimal, msg me if its Not and i'll change it.

[X][Action] Attempt to store resources against future need. (General)
 


The Worm will (probably) be complete! Huzzah!


Anyhow if the Worm makes all creepy then that's cool. Ideally it'd make meatbags hesitant to mess with us and not make them trigger happy. If people my fellow saps are right about the sun turning into a black hole I'll laugh at the Ingaba losing their mind over it.
 
J.I.M.S said:
Anyhow if the Worm makes all creepy then that's cool. Ideally it'd make meatbags hesitant to mess with us and not make them trigger happy. If people my fellow saps are right about the sun turning into a black hole I'll laugh at the Ingaba losing their mind over it.
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And what if it makes them super trigger happy and they all start gunning for us? It is more likely that until they learn not to mess with us (and that is not happening until we are a lot stronger), that we will be going around with a target on our backs and just about everyone going kill it, kill it with heavy fire. So you know there are big disadvantages to being disliked, such as active hostility.
 
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The tree's that look like they need more time devoted upgrading to me after the collector tree's would have to be the skimmer and magnetic tree's. Partly because I'm a heart tree and the more defense we have the better and because the sooner we can move more around the system the sooner we can eat the super juicy comet and asteroids.

I know were a bit tired with the collector's but if any root tree's would upgrade either of those trees instead of growing the forest it would be greatly appreciated!
 
[X][Action] Research the Laser Power (Crystal, Light, Magnetic)*
[X][FOCUS] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree
[X][FOCUS] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree x2
[X][FOCUS] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree x3
 
RebelYell said:
The tree's that look like they need more time devoted upgrading to me after the collector tree's would have to be the skimmer and magnetic tree's. Partly because I'm a heart tree and the more defense we have the better and because the sooner we can move more around the system the sooner we can eat the super juicy comet and asteroids.

I know were a bit tired with the collector's but if any root tree's would upgrade either of those trees instead of growing the forest it would be greatly appreciated!
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Because I'm a massive Nerd Tree, I went and painstakingly calculated the expected return for each Elder Tree upgrade. In the interest of not bombarding everyone with a wall of math, I'll just give the results.

By my reckoning, we'll greatly benefit if the Root Trees use their Actions to prioritize the following, in order:
  1. Upgrade our single Skimmer to an Elder Skimmer
    • Unlocks the 'Set a Course' mechanic, which will make it much easier for Heart Trees to coordinate movement
    • Time-sensitive; intercepting the comet will be very difficult without this upgrade
    • Combos very well with Elder Collectors
  2. Max base Scoop Trees for current Magnitude
    • Dirt cheap. Each generates a net profit after a single turn.
  3. 14 Elder Collectors
    • Generates a net profit after 2 to 3 turns at Mag 4 and high solar activity
    • Doubles as a powerful attack once we have Laser Power researched
  4. Max Tranquil Trees for current Magnitude
    • Great way to convert abundant Growth successes into much scarcer Research
    • Net profit in raw successes after 2 turns
  5. Grow the Forest to Mag 5
    • May unlock a new Forest Feature
    • Assuming all Collectors are upgraded, and the high solar activity continues, returns a net profit in about 3 to 4 turns.
  6. Grow the Forest to Mag 6
    • May unlock another Forest Feature
    • Assuming all Collectors were upgraded, net profit after about 6 to 8 turns. 10+ without high solar activity.
  7. At least one Elder Feeling
    • Extra range will let us react to opportunities like the comet sooner
    • Sensor fidelity may be important for weapon accuracy and range
    • Consider growing the 1st alongside Mag 5 or 6; it's potentially dangerous to delay better sensors for too long
    • Might want to wait until Superconductors to upgrade remaining 3 Feeling Trees, so they're cheaper.
  8. Upgrade Tranquils to Elder Tranquils
    • 4x worse investment than the base Tranquil Tree
    • Net profit in raw successes after about 5-8 turns
  9. One Elder Hoop Tree
    • The Survival ---> Growth dice conversion rate for the associated action is actually pretty meh at our current dice pool size; Heart Trees who want to contribute to Growth will usually be far more productive if they vote for movement instead.
    • Pays for itself through auto-successes in about 6 turns with Superconductors, 8 without
  10. Upgrade Scoops to Elder Scoops
    • 10x worse investment than base Scoop Tree
    • Ideally, save these until Superconductive Root Network is researched
    • Net profit after about 6 turns with Superconductors, 8 without
  11. Upgrade Soothing Tree(s)
    • Returns a profit in raw successes after about 5 to 10 turns, depending on how often Soothing is used
  12. Elder Magnetic x7
    • Definitely wait for Superconductors before upgrading these
    • With Superconductors, returns a profit in raw successes after 8 turns
 
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Sapient_Ham said:
Upgrade our single Skimmer to an Elder Skimmer
  • Unlocks the 'Set a Course' mechanic, which will make it much easier for Heart Trees to coordinate movement
  • Time-sensitive; intercepting the comet will be very difficult without this upgrade
  • Combos very well with Elder Collectors
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How time-sensitive is this do you think?

//Edit: Nevermind it is likely very time-sensitive. I may be a mind tree but I know that we need this done fast.

[X] Upgrade Skimmer Tree
[X][Focus] Research Crystal Formation (Crystal)*
[X][Focus] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree
[X][Focus] Grow the forest
 
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I'm like 50% sure I'm suspicious of the Worm only because we haven't seen the other, equally powerful, trees.
 
Angelform said:
These aren't really 'return on investment' sort of things. They are 'in case of X, break glass' sort of things. If you get any return on investment it means something bad has happened.
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Yeah, I use the profit metric as a way to compare bang for buck, but there's an argument to be made that Elder Magnetic should be prioritized over Elder Scoop/Hoop, or even the Elder Tranquil. I still think we should wait for Superconductors to buy them at reduced cost, though.

I primarily put Magnetic so low for two reasons:
  • We have enough Protective Trees that will Erect the Shield nearly every turn to be mostly safe from a moderately-sized surprise attack. With Worm lvl 3, we're looking at something like 40+ successes per turn, even without any upgrades.
  • If we get seriously attacked, the successes can be increased to 100+ by Heart Trees voting for the action. If the extra 20-ish successes from x7 Elder Magnetics are needed, and Lasers can't kill the attacking force quickly enough, then we're already thoroughly screwed.
As for Soothing, the vast majority of dice for that action will always come from Root/Offense Trees. An extra 3 successes per Tree is exceedingly unlikely to be a decisive factor.
 
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