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A Simple Transaction I

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@Zampano, @Prospalz, @BrainInAJar, @Sara

I'd like to call in vote markers for some combination of options that includes Deferral, namevote appreciated but not required. Prospalz, your marker was traded to me here by Zampano; Sara, yours dates back to the Elixir vote and you have a veto available. Brain and Zampano, if you have time for the associated wordcounts (1000 & 1500, respectively) that'd be great. If not, no worries. Please let me know if there's a problem with any of this.
 
Orm Embar said:
@Zampano, @Prospalz, @BrainInAJar, @Sara

I'd like to call in vote markers for some combination of options that includes Deferral, namevote appreciated but not required. Prospalz, your marker was traded to me here by Zampano; Sara, yours dates back to the Elixir vote and you have a veto available. Brain and Zampano, if you have time for the associated wordcounts (1000 & 1500, respectively) that'd be great. If not, no worries. Please let me know if there's a problem with any of this.
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Someone already called me to vote Deferral, but if you wish to use your maker just for the word count I'll see what I can do.
 
Orm Embar said:
@Zampano, @Prospalz, @BrainInAJar, @Sara

I'd like to call in vote markers for some combination of options that includes Deferral, namevote appreciated but not required. Prospalz, your marker was traded to me here by Zampano; Sara, yours dates back to the Elixir vote and you have a veto available. Brain and Zampano, if you have time for the associated wordcounts (1000 & 1500, respectively) that'd be great. If not, no worries. Please let me know if there's a problem with any of this.
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Rah13 said:
@Zampano you can take Orms marker call and still use up the marker I called if you vote Favour/Deferral/Delaying the bonus for signs.
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Well that makes things simpler.

Orm, my vote has ~4000 words of Ferocity blurbs and CYOA theorycrafting. Does that satisfy the promised wordcount? I will still try to get out one more chapter reaction today but the odds there are 50/50

[X] "I wish my reprieve be deferred."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's favor." (2 wishes)
[X] Night's Ambition
 
BrainInAJar said:
Someone already called me to vote Deferral, but if you wish to use your maker just for the word count I'll see what I can do.
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Fine by me, I have two of them anyway. Win or lose, at least there'll be more space in my signature.
Zampano said:
Orm, my vote has ~4000 words of Ferocity blurbs and CYOA theorycrafting. Does that satisfy the promised wordcount? I will still try to get out one more chapter reaction today but the odds there are 50/50
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Hm... the recent Persona build's the reason I decided to call this in, so yes, it's fair to count it toward the marker.
 
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Favor is objectively the best. If you argue against it:
I am truly sorry whatever happened to you but I need you to understand that it does not excuse the person you have become.
 
[X] "I wish my reprieve be deferred."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's grace."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's guidance."

Well, I know with certainty that I want both Guidance and Grace, which unfortunately means spending two wishes on Favor is off the table, as good as it is. May change my mind later, but I don't know which of the two I'd sacrifice to make Favor happen.

Among the remaining single-wish options, I'm very ehhhh about Exaltation - and based on the vote counts, seems like lots agree with that sentiment, which leaves Deferral. Though a Catherine resurrection within the duration of this quest is unlikely, this makes it possible for her to be revived in the epilogue, which Hunger will have a better chance of surviving through with Grace and Guidance.

I don't really have any preferences in regards to the Signs votes, so I'll abstain from that part of the vote. I guess if someone wants to buy a partial/single-option vote marker from me or something for this part, hmu, we can hash out the terms and all that.
 
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Orm Embar said:
@Zampano, @Prospalz, @BrainInAJar, @Sara

I'd like to call in vote markers for some combination of options that includes Deferral, namevote appreciated but not required. Prospalz, your marker was traded to me here by Zampano; Sara, yours dates back to the Elixir vote and you have a veto available. Brain and Zampano, if you have time for the associated wordcounts (1000 & 1500, respectively) that'd be great. If not, no worries. Please let me know if there's a problem with any of this.
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[x] Orm Embar

Here you go!
 
[JK] "I wish for more wishes."

S'what you're supposed to do with a genie, riiiiight? Anywho, ngl: Hunger has powerful dad energy with the kids 'n I kinda want to see how much stronger it'll be with him as an actual dad~

[X] "I wish my reprieve be deferred."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's grace."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's guidance."
[X] Twilight Cladding
 
[X] "I wish my reprieve be deferred."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's grace."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's guidance."

I return from my long period of apathy to give a vote with minimal argumentative weighting! Bow before it!
 
Favour should still be one behind grace because Talace's vote is recorded as a separate Favour vote.
Adhoc vote count started by Tyrant_Rayne on Oct 22, 2020 at 3:27 PM, finished with 361 posts and 61 votes.
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Orm Embar said:
@Zampano, @Prospalz, @BrainInAJar, @Sara

I'd like to call in vote markers for some combination of options that includes Deferral, namevote appreciated but not required. Prospalz, your marker was traded to me here by Zampano; Sara, yours dates back to the Elixir vote and you have a veto available. Brain and Zampano, if you have time for the associated wordcounts (1000 & 1500, respectively) that'd be great. If not, no worries. Please let me know if there's a problem with any of this.
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Prospalz already had that called by someone else!
Sharkey_smt said:
I am truly sorry whatever happened to you but I need you to understand that it does not excuse the person you have become.
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Ho ho ho! I reject my humanity! Join us, and become something greater!
 
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In the spirit of arguing for the vote markers that have been activated...

I think y'all are sleeping on the best STAY ALIVE strategy of them all: become so powerful that we don't even need a panic button. Voting for Wish (power) + Favor confers such an outrageous amount of growth that I almost don't know how to describe it.

The concerns of the [grace] contingent seem to be rooted in the fear that we'll have an onscreen bad end because of a Geas roadblock, or an offscreen bad end because Hunger's trajectory has him on a collision course with disaster. If we spend two boons on Favor and then wish for additional power then the odds of an onscreen bad end are reduced considerably. We are already snapping at the heels of a fair 1v1 Armament fight (with prep). The Human Sphere certainly has dangers, but there's a conversation happening about risk management that makes me optimistic about our gameplay decisions. [Assuming that the conversation keeps developing even after I was such an ass about it.]

Regarding the epilogue, I think that Hunger's progress continues as though the "digital waterfall" maintains its average Arete generation rate. Like, his current Arete rate will continue as though we are still writing omakes for him. One way to optimize such a system is by making sure that Hunger's growth per unit of Arete is as high as possible. Adding a datapoint where 16 Arete resulted in a full Lesser Wish worth of power would do a lot to increase the epilogue's exchange rate between Arete and safety. This way, each unit of passive Arete he gets on the way to the Epilogue has better buying power.


TL;DR:
Favor + Defer (Wish for signs) offers safety oncreen by applying OaF2 to a massively boosted set of [Evening Sky] Signs.

Favor + Defer (Wish for signs) offers safety offscreen by setting a precedent that 16 Arete can sometimes generate power equivalent to a Lesser Wish.
 
Elero said:
Worst Curse scaling laughs at the idea you could ever be safe just by accumulating power. Our power growth has been incredibly quick and apo-chan still has chances to outright kill us or our companions.
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Rihaku said:
Correct, similar to the Geas (though not as permissive) the Apocryphal Curse only has imperfect scaling, and some of its challenges aren't scaled at all or are disruptive in a way that doesn't risk your personal safety. It's possible to get ahead of the curve if you do well, or fall behind if you do poorly. Considerably less forgiving if you do fall behind, though.
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The thing is that we absolutely can improve our safety by accumulating power. With Favor's +OaF and Ruling Ring's ++Progression and a steady stream of Lesser Wishes coming from the digital waterfall, it seems clear that the odds of a party wipe are falling over time.

If you think this argument is incorrect, then you quickly become committed to a couple conclusions that I hope are untrue. First, if the notion of getting "ahead of the curve" is completely irrelevant w/r/t Apocryphal Death chance, then the (unmitigated) Curse is an inevitable death sentence. A positive risk of death iterated over a span of a nonillion years has event probability 1. Would we be 100% doomed if we hadn't taken Gisena for direct curse mitigation? I hope not.

Second, it means that none of our picks or Arete matter in terms of long term (Apocryphal) survival. Well, exactly two of our picks matter: All Defeating Stance and Renaissance Woman. If it is the case that staying "ahead of the curve" is not a way to mitigate the Apocryphal Curse then the correct choice would be to ignore all expensive choices and save Arete exclusively for options that provide Curse mitigation. This option is v distasteful tbh, so I hope it is not true.


Instead, I have to believe it is possible to stay one step "ahead of the curve" by maintaining a high enough growth rate. Seeking +Progression and high value Arete Options ensure that the AC's "average" proc is within Hunger's capabilities. Will there be blips where a "major" proc requires us to dig deep? Sure, because the curse isn't going to just disappear. But I think it's premature defeatism to say that our efforts are completely ineffectual.
 
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Rah13 said:
Always down for more mitigation tho.
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Like... yeah... but there's a meme growing where people seem to think that temporal power is irrelevant for surviving the AC.

(Plus, y'know, discussion multiplier is a thing.)
 
Honestly though, given that 'transmute 1/20 apoc procs into boons' was one of the options for Apoc Mitigation (albeit one that was half an EFB), we probably have been undervaluing direct mitigation.
 
Aabcehmu said:
Honestly though, given that 'transmute 1/20 apoc procs into boons' was one of the options for Apoc Mitigation (albeit one that was half an EFB), we probably have been undervaluing direct mitigation.
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It was way more frequent than 1 in twenty! It was "up to one in seven" and i think it would have been really good. Imagine if we'd voted Lucentthorne and then grabbed Elixir. It's like that happening multiple times per year.

Edit: My position here is that mitigation is really good, but rare. Indirect approaches like risk management & accumulating power are both necessary and effective complements to formal "Curse Mitigation levels".
 
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Aabcehmu said:
Honestly though, given that 'transmute 1/20 apoc procs into boons' was one of the options for Apoc Mitigation (albeit one that was half an EFB), we probably have been undervaluing direct mitigation.
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For the sake of clarification, direct mitigation is something that reduces the average magnitude of procs. Outliers still exist. Linking to where I extend on things with Rihaku statements: A Simple Transaction I Original

Extending on when and where Rihaku explained about mitigation, 7/26/2020 in the general discord channel.
 
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