Gestalt (Human Group Mind in WH40K)
- Thread starter Driven by Apathy
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
Twei
I have a face!
- Location
- the land where they write things
- Pronouns
- They/Them
CUt off mid-sentence there?
KnightofTempest
The Man who would be King
- Location
- Chicago
I don't think we're going to get any history from Bonterre, especially since apparently it's a plot point in the most recent edition that nobody actually knows what the real date is because it and the real timeline of events have been so obscured by the Inquisition that nobody can tell. . .
- Location
- France
Please, do not act as if frozing people because they're an inconvenience is some sort of morable thing. They're in the way, so we'll just put them aside as if they're objects to dispose of. Even if it's probably terrifying for them to have their numbers diminish bit by bit to various recruitment tactics and then since they don't join us to be frozen as a result. This is not how you treat people well. This move will only alienate them toward us .There is a disregard for how we treat this people psychologically.
For the pushing people and treating them like dirt, I was more referring to the guys who blown themselves this update. We pushed them to far once, they felt under threat and we had to let them live on Respite or they would have killed themselves. Which they did this update because we pushed once more this update despite it being clear that they feared us. We had all the power in the relationship and instead of being careful, we pushed until they broke because we "were concerned for they're wellbeing".
We did. Automation does not translate to lack of work, it just makes the work different.
660,000 emh for 10,000 units of food amounts to 300 people working roughly 40-50 hours a week, 50 weeks a year.
And feeding 10,000 people at DAoT standards of nutrition.
Yes, some of it is game mechanics. Roll with it.
The GM was never going to allow us basically feed ourselves for free.
You can't buy food for several thousand people at a time without raising questions about who they are, why they arent growing their own food on an agricultural planet, and how you intend to ship that much food.
And that's before considering whether said food would be palatable, or would pass DAoT FDA food safety requirements.
In a galaxy with Nurgle, I want to make my own food.
Oops. Will fix.
I fully expect the GM will ignore some of the more nonsensical dictates of canon in order to make a good story.
An Empire that loses planets does not have the information control to obscure dates.
And history doesn't necessarily require accurate dating anyway; a lot of Earth history are things that we can only estimate to an estimated date, not the actual ones. We don't need to know the exact date the Emperor began the Crusade, for example, or when the Primarchs were born.
A broad tapestry works fine for our initial purposes.
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- Location
- Salt Lake City, UT, USA
We don't need timeline information, really. There's going to be traces of general history in the Imperial Creed, however, and the Munitorum's propaganda.
Also, there's without question at least some AdMech presence in the world, and they keep rather different records than the rest of the Imperium. So at the very least we can expect to get some decent stellar charts and maps of the known state of the Imperium -- for however little that's worth -- which in turn might give us a few better long-term targets for managing the risks of acquiring better information in the future.
What the devil does that have to do with what I suggested? Even remotely? No. I suggested cryosuspending them in order to make it safer to release them. That and only that. That has absolutely dick-all to do with "just putting them aside as if they're objects to dispose of." -- and your equivocation of what I suggested with that is highly inappropriate. I mean, you'd obviously tell them straight up what is going to happen to them now and why: "We are going to cryosuspend you in these chambers, which we will leave behind on an Imperial Agriworld. After a certain number of years, the chambers will release you and then you'll be free of us forever. We'll also leave behind supplies for you to be able to survive comfortably there. I'm sorry that things between us didn't work out, and hope that you prosper in your new lives."
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- Location
- Canada
I'm sure many people on the planet do other things like make the equipment to grow the food and such, we can pretend to be one of those people, buy the food, put it in trucks and drive off. Besides no one says we have to buy all the food at one place.
We should still check the quality, but surely it can't be that bad if the natives are eating it and are still fine.
- Location
- Salt Lake City, UT, USA
You do realize that the Munitorum's rations are often made from human remains in part or in full, right?
The Imperial standard of nutritional health for agriworlders -- let alone underhive denizens -- ain't exactly up to the quality levels that a Federation citizen would consider acceptably sufficient.
Consider for example what the simple lack of trace amounts of iodine can do to the IQ scores of a population, and why we only have iodized salt in most restaurants. Now add on the fact that Erisians have far higher nutritional standards than we today have for this reason; and that Warp-mutated (however minimally) agriworlders would have their best crops tithed to the Munitorum for the War Effort.
- Location
- western US
This claim is so wrong:
1): people's digestion changes relative to what they eat; chances are most people would get sick if they ate things from 1000 years ago or from a different culture and got unlucky. heck, its a known thing that the ablity to digest cow milk was not always a thing. Our body's are very dependent on our gut carrying the right kinds of bacteria to digest our food and if we don't have the same kind that the imperials have......
2): their NOT fine, I'm sure their mortality rates are massive relative to ours because who knows what kind of contaminants...which they might be better adjusted to anyway.
People eat approximately 3-4 pounds of food a day. Call it at least 4 pounds plus, because DAoT standards.
That translates to more than 50,000 pounds of food every day for 12,800 people.
Who is going to sell you 25 tons of food every day and not have questions? What of if they have a bad harvest? Or the Imperium demands they ship all the food abroad to feed an army?
What trucks? This is 40k. An authoritarian fascist hellhole.
The planetary administration is going to have pointed questions about where those trucks came from, and where the food is going to.
Where the money or barter goods you are paying with is coming from.
Corpse-Starch - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum
The Imperium feeds this shit to citizens with the misfortune of living in Hive cities.
And it doesn't have the basic decency of recycling it into soil/substrate with which to grow new ffood.
What the Imperium deems edible will not meet our standards.
And there's no chance we'll imperil our food security in order to scrape back a couple hundred thousand manhours.
Twei
I have a face!
- Location
- the land where they write things
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Out of idle curiosity, and definitely not because the current conversations about cryosuspension and foodstuffs make me go @_@:
@Driven by Apathy: Way back in the beginning, we were told that Eris had originally used Terra's 'networks', whatever those were, to acheive internal communication, hence the loss of range after the exodus. What sort of technology was that, and could we produce similar technology to expand Eris's range in the future? I imagine either in the form of a central hub extending ERis's range or a series of repeater beacons which can link, say, two planets in the same system.
@Driven by Apathy: Way back in the beginning, we were told that Eris had originally used Terra's 'networks', whatever those were, to acheive internal communication, hence the loss of range after the exodus. What sort of technology was that, and could we produce similar technology to expand Eris's range in the future? I imagine either in the form of a central hub extending ERis's range or a series of repeater beacons which can link, say, two planets in the same system.
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Tier 4/Tier 5 comms that existed on Terra are probably beyond us.
And that's assuming we had any interest in sitting in one place and becoming a target.
- Location
- Canada
Someone who wants to keep getting paid. It is a lot of food, but compared to the hundreds of millions of people on the planet, it's a drop in the ocean.
They have satellites, there's no way they don't have trucks.
Gold, gems, tools, medicine, we have a lot of options.
We could put those relays on our ships so that we can properly operate throughout an entire system. It would be a work around that would extend our range but with obvious limitations and weaknesses. Jamming and/or interference could cut off sections of us until we restore communication.
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- Location
- Australia
Sure it should be possible but to me, it seems like a lot of risk for something that we can do ourselves.
It's possible that it could go unnoticed but if it is noticed that tells them that there is a large group of people hiding somewhere and we really don't want them to get suspicious because it will make it harder for us to sneak around and gather info+reqruits. Sure it's not likely they figure out that there is a full ship hiding in the ocean but even if they just think that its a bunch of rebels or cultists or something them tightening security will make it harder for our spies.
I'd also be rather hesitant to trust whoever we buy it from to keep quiet. Either they're an honest citizen, in which case they may turn us in if they get suspicious, or they're a criminal, who could do something stupid in order to make more money off us.
Farmers have agricultural tithes to pay.
Money is only of limited value when the Adeptus Administratum comes demanding for milllions of tons of food to ship abroad to feed a Hive city or an army somewhere, and you can't make up your share; gold is not edible.
Who are you to be throwing around that much money on a planet and the planetary administration have never heard of you?
Who gave you the license to buy food in those quantities? Where are you shipping it to?
Are you part of a plot to short the Imperium of its supplies?
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how a lot of 40k works, and I don't have the time to argue with you over it.
Why do you assume farmers on a <Tier 1 agricultural planet like this one have trucks? Instead of draught animals pulling carts?
The military has vehicles, but that says nothing about the plebes. India has satellites, and a lot of it's farmers still use animal labor.
North Korea has nuclear weapons, and its people farm by hand.
Who's going to give John Q Random, Imperial Farmer the fuel to run a truck? Who will maintain them?
Where are they even importing them from?
Do you think these things you are blithely naming off don't cost manhours to make or refine?
Wont cost more manhours than sitting down and growing our own damn crops?
If we could build them. If they can't get jammed, or intercepted, or spoofed, or attacked by something like the Obliterator Virus; the last thing you want is to use a transmission method for your own thoughts that can be targeted by hostiles. And as a high-tech tier group of people possessing galaxy-changing technology and joined by an oversoul, we would be a prime target for all sorts of technological fuckery.
And of course, we would first have to unlock Tier 4/5 to even have the option of looking at Earth's comm system.
IMO, this is the sort of thing we have the Extended Range line of perks for.
Much harder to fuck with.
It's a matter of reading the subtext. If the hymns and prayers talk a lot about the perfidious Xeno, perfidious Heretics or if it's just a general melange of hate can still give us a hint.
Guess we'll get the opportunity soon enough
EDIT
Amusing quote, btw:
Context, the Imperium is trying to take back an important agri-world that has fallen to chaos and/or some Xenos threat. The force is mostly Guardsmen and armor with a few squads of Crimson Fist marines, but an entire company of Crimson Fists show up unexpectedly after encountering some traitor marines. This excerpt is the Lord General Xarius sharing his thoughts on Marines with his aide, Threlnan:
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[X]PLAN FISHING
- Location
- western US
if quantity < quality, why are you suggesting that unsanctioned psykers would be better? their less trained and less practiced and more likely to be insane.....err...insane in a chaos-y way that we probably can't fix pretty much *ever* as opposed to the imperial-brand of crazy that we can at least get lucky with their openness.
chaos psykers MIGHT be more powerful and/or knowledgeable....but only because their tainted and we shoulden't risk chaos taint till we are sigificantly more warp-knowledgeable.
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