Going through the Temple Arc, huh? No worries, we've become much more reasonable since then!

[X] A Compact of Kings
[X] The Martial Way


What do you mean we're thrusting ourselves into danger for no reason again? There's a trapped princess and we have a sword in our hand, what else are we supposed to choose?
 
Note: I am currently on page 289 so whatever is happening to Hunger right now has nothing to do with what I am about to say.
Oh yeah, that's a good place to be salty. Brings back memories! The Fucking Exhaustion Fish and the Temple, oh, man. Good thing we've changed and don't do risky all-in maximum kill things anymore. Haha... ha. ha
He thinks he's salty now, nobody tell him we were almost at 2% ghosthealth in a few pages
 
Going through the Temple Arc, huh? No worries, we've become much more reasonable since then!

[X] A Compact of Kings
[X] The Martial Way


What do you mean we're thrusting ourselves into danger for no reason again? There's a trapped princess and we have a sword in our hand, what else are we supposed to choose?
Saving the princess for a evil tyrant, i would argue, is the best reason to take risks! I think its only natural for Hunger to oposse a tyrant.

On a side-note, OaF and SJUC would allow us to jump to effective rank 9, with rank 11 bloodcasting(if we simply decided to take 17.5% rank). While we would be severely under-stated to actually take on an armament, would likely give us too much power. Amusingly enough we might actually run in the problem that we can't find worthy oponnets in our level-range to give us picks! But to be honest, that's probably one of the better problems for us to have.
 
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While we would be severely under-stated to actually take on an armament, would likely give us too much power, amusingly enough: we might actually run in the problem that we can't find worthy oponnets in our level-range to give us picks! But to be honest, thta's probably one of the better problems for us to have.
looks at Armament Fish

It's technically not a fully grown Armament...
 
Well, the Scenic Route yielded nothing but an overview of the political landscape, which is about what I expected. But at least it didn't land us in hot water and we can attempt a negotiated solution to the Affliction.

[X] Work From Within
[X] The Martial Way

When Rihaku mentioned that the Tower was much riskier than the Rotbeast, though not as risky as the Temple "unless you take certain decisions," I would be willing to bet that this is what he was talking about. If one looks beyond the trappings of tropes, this is an awfully large fight to pick merely on the suspicion that the arc Nilfel's history is narratively driven. Hunger of all people should know better than to put excessive faith in the inevitable triumph of good over evil. Nor is it necessarily clear which is which, when we haven't even begun to peer underneath the underneath. Because it's not just the Princess and the Protector, is it, there are the Patron Spirits stirring the pot as well; this place has Hidden Masters of its own. Claumgnor isn't going to sit idly by while we dispose of its pawn.

This is a complicated, messy situation that we have no obligation to resolve. The straightforward route remains open to us, so why don't we avail ourselves of it? Conspicuously signal our strength and willingness to play ball with a couple mercenary engagements that aren't morally objectionable, then when we gain an audience with the Lord Protector, offer diplomatic relations with the newly-minted Kingdom. Hunger is a single-issue kind of guy and the Protector is purportedly reasonable. We aren't leaving until the Tower has fallen, we have the power to be at a bare minimum inconvenient, and no sane ruler would want active Decimation of their territories. It's in his interests to resolve the situation quickly; we can trust him to know which way the incentives are blowing, if nothing else. There are two realistic options when dealing with Hunger: assassination or appeasement. Given the high downside risks of the former, unless the Opalescent Tower is somehow critical to their way of life, he'll want to go with the latter. If he can get some use out of Hunger for the low price of tearing down a symbol of House Mirel's authority, isn't that a bargain?

Finally, this route keeps our options open in the medium term. The Royalists are desperate, grasping at straws with their cause on the cusp of extinction. If the Protector is truly abhorrent on a level that Hunger and the voters are unable to tolerate, he can always follow his wife's example and betray evil for the cause of righteousness. The Royalists may suspect a trap, all the more so because of Hunger's brief association, but realistically they have no alternatives. The opposite, however, is hardly true. If we discover some damning truth halfway through this mess that upends our perspective, we may have already burned our bridges with the Protectorate. I hope I'm not the only one who recalls that foreshadowing with the Princess Regent talking about crushing rivals beneath her heel...
 
[X] Work From Within
[X] The Martial Way


Orm makes a really interesting point that the order of alliances here is not commutative. Siding with rebels and criminals in order to betray them and turn them in to the authorities is a very silly plan to attempt without actively coordinating with the establishment!
 
Attempting a tally...
Adhoc vote count started by Byzantine on Aug 5, 2020 at 2:05 AM, finished with 53 posts and 17 votes.
 
"I must destroy the tower to subdue a powerful curse that will bring decimation and ruin to all. I care nothing for your politics, for your tyrants and for your royalty. That is not my problem, nor my goal. I can offer great payment for you to stand aside and allow me to subdue this curse. And I can give you some time to move anything contained within the tower, though the time until this curse returns grows ever nearer."

But really, we should choose to work from within.

What makes a better story? A hero from outside arriving, rallying the loyalists to their cause upon their arrival and casting down the tyrant after a desperate battle... Or a hero from outside arriving, trusting the majority and being taken in by the Tyrant like they were, learning the tyrant's dark secrets, recoiling in horror from this new knowledge, and resolving to bring the tyrant down with all of their power, going on to rally the loyalists and the general public to bring down the tyrant with this new horrifying knowledge?

The first is kinda contrived a story, particularly when the loyalists had nothing to do with our arrival here, but the second is a classic. And if the realm of myths works on stories then if the Tyrant truly is evil we will learn it in great detail soon enough if we try to work with him. The story would allow nothing else.

And if he isn't evil... well, no reason to go throwing everything into disarray just because we think it fits one cliche when it really fits another. (Do we really want to be the bumbling hero, who charges into a situation they don't understand, and always picks a side against the current authority? That always bites the heros who do not take the time to at least check the ruler is truly evil eventually.)

Aka: Never try to bring down the evil tyrant without the general public on your side, because otherwise you may very well fall into the category of bumbling hero. Or worse that of foreign tyrant. if the Tyrant is evil the story, our rank, and the realm will contrive together to rub our faces in it before the deal is made. And we can leverage that knowledge into a popular revolt, going by how these stories usually go. If we try to align with the royalists ahead of time we're basically trying to skip the first half of the book, and that rarely works out well unless you can cheat it somehow, but we cannot at this time.

Of there is also the argument about power - working from within advances Aobaru, which will eventually advance us, permanently. And I suspect that any compensation we may offer the Tyrant is likely to be worth more than the tower in his eyes, unless it hides vast secrets. In which case we may walk out of this with more than we walked in. A secret for a secret is another trope, of course.
 
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You need to use the thread tools button, aab, and make sure you click "Tally" before posting so it updates. And merging is needed this time because people are typoing the names.
Adhoc vote count started by Byzantine on Aug 5, 2020 at 2:22 AM, finished with 60 posts and 19 votes.
 
[X] A Compact of Kings
[X] The Martial Route


i cast fist
Any chance I can convince you to switch to working from within? We'll surely end up discovering the Tyrant's dark secrets in time and turning on him, if he actually has them. The realm and our rank would allow nothing less. And it makes a better story, on top of likely letting us have more time to get stronger before we actually need to face off against the tyrant and his forces. (And we'll probably cleave a reasonable portion of them off with whatever secret we uncover.)
 
Or perhaps the magic is simply too powerful to be released from the domain of the Walls! If so, then even outside it could be a tremendous boon.
I read this as boom on the first pass and have to say, I liked my misconception more.
Anyways if I catch up to the rest of the thread someday I will be voting and I will have
A R G U E M E N T S.
We await your salt eagerly, the thread's straightforward and destructive ways could benefit from some old-fashioned Callidus cunning.
SJUC may or may not be overwhelmingly powerful in your current context, but you don't even have the Arete for Once and Future yet! Best not to count your chickens before they're hatched and all that.
And then, of course, there'll be Once and Future II. Everybody always elides over the Roman numeral, when that's arguably the most important part of the advancement! SJUC is nice and all, but no EFB whose best descriptor is 'nice' is going to win the rhetorical knife fight that is a 25-Arete build vote. We really should just lock in Stranglethorn as our Core Panoply DA if we go the Martial Route. That, or snag Honing.
 
I don't want to commit to Stranglethorn until we've at least seen the DA we unlocked with Crown.
 
I don't want to commit to Stranglethorn until we've at least seen the DA we unlocked with Crown.
It will be Star Throne (ngl). If we can't get Stranglethrorn, at least we'll have an anagram.

For real it might be Scepter though, so we can aim for the N O N I T Y.

I predict Scepter will give +50% Int and Wis, +30% Rank gain for leadership feats, and a large improvement to buffs on our subordinates.
 
[X] A Compact of Kings
[X] The Martial Route

The path forward is simple enough, Use the fights to get picks to buy Once and Future, the royal faction is desperate, with OaF we can probably convince them to get behind us since High Rank also means greater social skill and power.

As for why I want to take on The Tyrant? Because that's where the best shinies, artifacts and magic both lie. Fucking loot him and everything else we can in the aftermath, the proper way to do things. The royalists simply won't be strong enough to stop us.
 
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