Tyrant_Rayne
Probably Not Evil… Maybe
- Location
- Canada
[X] Entrench
[X] Save
I have been swayed.
[X] Save
I have been swayed.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Brazil
[X] The Scenic Route
[X] Save
While risky, not taking ADS immediatly means that we can save for OaF, which is already in striking range, and guaranetes safety in the immediate future. Power enough to defeat Ber, to defeat Tyrants, to finally surprass the Hunger of old in every way, shape and form. The sheer power of OaF in conflict should not be underestimated.
Praxis is shiny indeed, but unless we want to do a omake-storm to get something on the scale of refinement of battle. I find it very, very unlikely that we will find a praxis pick that is comparable to either ADS or OaF. Don't get me wrong, Praxis is immensily powerful, but its capable of being outscaled in the short-term by sufficiently good builds, and after taking Core Panoply and Crown, both of which massively boosted our rank(no, seriously, 1.1 rank in days.) and making OaF that much better.
Yes, there are risks on not taking ADS, but i would rather front-load the risk for 1-2 updates, for then be safe. And worst come to worst, we can always get ADS in case shit hits the fan.
[X] Save
While risky, not taking ADS immediatly means that we can save for OaF, which is already in striking range, and guaranetes safety in the immediate future. Power enough to defeat Ber, to defeat Tyrants, to finally surprass the Hunger of old in every way, shape and form. The sheer power of OaF in conflict should not be underestimated.
Praxis is shiny indeed, but unless we want to do a omake-storm to get something on the scale of refinement of battle. I find it very, very unlikely that we will find a praxis pick that is comparable to either ADS or OaF. Don't get me wrong, Praxis is immensily powerful, but its capable of being outscaled in the short-term by sufficiently good builds, and after taking Core Panoply and Crown, both of which massively boosted our rank(no, seriously, 1.1 rank in days.) and making OaF that much better.
Yes, there are risks on not taking ADS, but i would rather front-load the risk for 1-2 updates, for then be safe. And worst come to worst, we can always get ADS in case shit hits the fan.
TwistedJester
Tired Lurker King
- Location
- Hell
Ah shit, here we go again.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
I mean Hunger will be working on Praxis workings that has synergy with his build, so we might get something that works really well with Rank. That might be better than Once and Future or should at least be quite synergistic with it.
Once and Future also requires getting an Normal pick to get first...
Edit: Praxis also has greater conceptual potency, that means where mere Rank may fail, Praxis might succeed.
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- Location
- Pindorama
We have building up for Once and Future for quite some time now, and one of the attractions of the Tower was the fact the it gave us an opportunity to acquire new Artifacts. Save plus Scenic route is literally the options to continue with the plan we have outlined and actually take advantage of the Options chosen. There's no need for regret or sudden remorse, let's just do what we planned to do inside here anyway. The loss of time incurred by the Scenic route is really not that big a deal at all. Instead of pre-committing to a martial resolution, why don't we get a better idea of what's really going on first?
In my memory, most Praxis voters regretted deeply they only had 12 Arete to spend at that juncture. Considering this, If you want it I recommend producing more fanworks now and seeing it's viability on the second day. I think it's much safer than committing to it right now and potentially getting a disappointing result. Praxis is something we are occasionally offered, while Once and Future is always there; saving for the latter is therefore much safer and more likely to lead to good payoffs.
I think if we generate 6 Arete here, we'd be good for the Praxis. If not, I recommend choosing another opportunity to advance it. No need to blow our load early yet again.
In my memory, most Praxis voters regretted deeply they only had 12 Arete to spend at that juncture. Considering this, If you want it I recommend producing more fanworks now and seeing it's viability on the second day. I think it's much safer than committing to it right now and potentially getting a disappointing result. Praxis is something we are occasionally offered, while Once and Future is always there; saving for the latter is therefore much safer and more likely to lead to good payoffs.
I think if we generate 6 Arete here, we'd be good for the Praxis. If not, I recommend choosing another opportunity to advance it. No need to blow our load early yet again.
- Location
- Pindorama
Inserted tally
Vocalist
Verdant Maiden in Violet
- Location
- By a Cedar Tree
There are a lot of things you could be talking about, but I'm going to guess it's the Potential Praxis Picks.
"PRAXIS PRAXIS PRAXIS! Praxis is so cool! Take Praxis!"
"But what about (insert 25-Arete upgrade here)?"
"We can get that too! Just need to generate another 25 Arete in two updates!"
"No please, my arms are so tired from mining..."
"Look, if we want to survive (insert villain here), the Praxis is our best bet. Praxis beats everything. Praxis!"
"I thought we were going to face (insert villain here) with (insert 25-Arete upgrade here)? "
"Yeah sure that would work, but it'll be useless in 10 updates when Apocryphal throws the next unbeatable threat at us. Praxis works forever!"
Rihaku
The Internet
Another possible benefit of Entrench - you'll get another shot at an Artifact crafting check! You may be able to access the Clarion Grenade or other situationally useful Artifact that offers effective Apocryphal mitigation.
Speaking of Apocryphal Mitigation, All-Defeating Stances' mitigation would certainly be helpful in any of the two leading scenarios... more time means more opportunities for the Apocryphal to work! And there certainly are quite a number of variables it could muster against you if so inclined.
Of the three options presented, only the Scenic Route thrusts you into the social arena, where the risk of Tyrant procs is evident. The Direct Route plays much more to Hunger's strengths, and enables the option to quickly detour to the Walls of Myth as well! Combat and overwhelming destructive force are what he's specialized for above all else - why not play the hand you're dealt?
Speaking of Apocryphal Mitigation, All-Defeating Stances' mitigation would certainly be helpful in any of the two leading scenarios... more time means more opportunities for the Apocryphal to work! And there certainly are quite a number of variables it could muster against you if so inclined.
Of the three options presented, only the Scenic Route thrusts you into the social arena, where the risk of Tyrant procs is evident. The Direct Route plays much more to Hunger's strengths, and enables the option to quickly detour to the Walls of Myth as well! Combat and overwhelming destructive force are what he's specialized for above all else - why not play the hand you're dealt?
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
But Rihaku, now that we can decide to be less charismatic, we can enter into social combat without any worries at all. What do you mean that the Doom of the Tyrant might make things difficult for a social strategy???
...looks like I am still salty.
Anyway, it's interesting that we can still hit the Walls, but given the warning about this society being able to detect Decimation it seems more important to move quickly.
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
All-Defeating Stance is amazing, but how can I convince people to choose instant gratification over delayed? Ber is scary, but far away. Don't let the distant threat override the one right in front of us! I don't want to argue that we can get OaF later, because that'll just irritate people... but it is a large reason for my personal voting, hm. If I take as fact that we won't have OaF, then I'll have to argue that we can beat Ber without it, perhaps with grenades and mythmagic? Ber is a shit, don't let him unduly control our behavior? Eh, take whatever argument works for you, that's (not) how persuasion works!
Stats are useful for doing things. No need to be more specific, ADS has all types of stats. Then, Holy Shit doubles our Cha and Man against everyone who is individually weaker, which should be almost everyone here. Our Manipulation goes from +2 to +14. When we're currently voting for the social strategy. The degree to which ADS is appropriate for our current circumstances is ridiculous. 5x Ruin for tower busting. Curse mitigation. More than doubling Int and Wis +s. Five Luck, when we don't have any.
Most of all, our goal is to defeat the tower.
The tower is within the set of "All".
Therefore, ADS can defeat the tower.
My logic is impeccable, down with the SAVEgang.
Stats are useful for doing things. No need to be more specific, ADS has all types of stats. Then, Holy Shit doubles our Cha and Man against everyone who is individually weaker, which should be almost everyone here. Our Manipulation goes from +2 to +14. When we're currently voting for the social strategy. The degree to which ADS is appropriate for our current circumstances is ridiculous. 5x Ruin for tower busting. Curse mitigation. More than doubling Int and Wis +s. Five Luck, when we don't have any.
Most of all, our goal is to defeat the tower.
The tower is within the set of "All".
Therefore, ADS can defeat the tower.
My logic is impeccable, down with the SAVEgang.
People detecting our Decimation just gives us more people to fight. The problem is the Decimation itself. In a region with a population of billions, every day it's active is 10s of thousands of extra deaths.
edit: Once we have A-DS we'll have a slot free for Tower-Defeating Stance.
edit: Once we have A-DS we'll have a slot free for Tower-Defeating Stance.
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TwistedJester
Tired Lurker King
- Location
- Hell
My main issue is that challenging a micro world full of powerful people armed with a variety of differing magic systems could result in one of them being the silver bullet.
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Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
Excellent point. Might I interest you in some -Defeating Stances? The premium package has silver bullet coverage, guaranteed to defeat 99% of silver bullets. Don't ask about the 1% please
TwistedJester
Tired Lurker King
- Location
- Hell
For some reason there seems to be only one option in the catalogue, but I'll take this Arete and spend it!
[X] The Scenic Route
[X] Become All-Defeating
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
It's hard for me to argue with "Down with SAVEgang", so here.
[X] The Scenic Route
[X] Become All-Defeating
I may switch back if All-Defeating looks close to winning though, I want artifacts and magic! Although perhaps there's something to be said getting a bunch of immediate power so we can safely buy new stuff in two updates or so...
Imagine if we had a Curse that makes any type of talk with authority figures a minefield and we could not mitigate this curse. Imagine raising our Charisma sky high to dazzle them and leave them speechless as a way to avoid this.
Imagine that the thread spent 7 Arete to actualy lower our Charisma and to raise the proc chance of the Curse.
AST - come for the Salt, facepalm at the anti-synergy.
PS: YES, I am fucking salty
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Then turn off the Skyveil when we're talking to authority figures and keep it on around party members?
Edit:
[X] The Scenic Route
[X] Become All-Defeating
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7 Arete is too much for some damn off switch. If the plebs can't handle us, they won't be able to handle Gisena. Unless she creates an artifact for herself that we could have used as well
Edit Hunger should have put some socks with sandals and be fine with 99 percent charisma reduction
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HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
@Orm Embar, I think a lot of your arguments also apply to my Combat Tourism writein, but that Tourism trades guaranteed Praxis training for more regular picks and info on our opponents here. Would you mind sharing your thoughts on it?
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
There's often an opportunity for a write-in in this quest, but I don't think I've seen so heavy a nudge that it would really be a good idea to take advantage before. But I want to gather more information first, and it's ahead anyway, so Scenic Route tactics it is.
Taking stock of our assets:
People: Hunger, Gisena, Letrizia, Verschlengorge, Azure, Aeira, Aobaru.
Magic: Praxis, Blood, Abduction, Edeldross, Nullity, Artifice, Sharpbright, Decimation, Vigorflame, Shadowcord. And Astral Rank to greater or lesser degrees for everyone. Progression for Hunger, too. Other Azure Ring abilities Gisena has yet to develop.
Junk: 700 currency. Decimation Lens (Gisena: ...). Personal effects, food, stuff below the level of abstraction.
Reputation: Probably none. Publicly avowed tourist.
Arete: 14.2.
How does the default plan use these assets?
Well, it doesn't explicitly take advantage of anything but Hunger himself. I'm sure everyone else wouldn't just sit on their hands, but let's brainstorm to make sure of it!
The target information, default: Tyrant + their faction, Princess + her faction, Tower construction. Incidental cool magics.
Things I would also like to know: Who is the lidless Arcanist? Who cares about the tower enough to want to stop its destruction, and what are their abilities and motivations? Wall construction information, following my previous assumption of similarity between them. Non Tyrant- and Princess-related Nilfel politics.
Then there's the best question, which is which question should we be asking? We're tourists, as Hunger told the customs officer. If we're on the scenic route, we should tour.
I doubt the Alizarin Falls themselves will be full of information, if the draw is beauty rather than cultural importance, but touristy spots like them should be used to giving basic info to outsiders. Or we could just go to a library despite the conspicuity, if these guys have such things (can't imagine they wouldn't). This basic research (what is Nilfel's government, hey that's a cool tower) should be done as a group, sending people off alone without knowing what the hell they're doing is unlikely to be productive.
Once we have our feet on the ground, we can split up the work. One person to investigate the princess, another the tyrant, and tower and wall and magic. Subject to change based on what we learn, of course. Is the princess even public knowledge? Does she even still exist? The blurb was written in past tense, after all. Also don't call the tyrant a tyrant, tyrants tend to not like that. Use whatever euphemistic title they have!
Who is best for each job? That's easy, it's Gisena or Hunger. Better question: Who has the most comparative advantage for each job?
Hunger potentially has an in with the Opalescent Tower- he suspects (as does the thread) a connection between it and his Evening Sky. We don't have to hide this. Assuming the brilliant rainbow tower isn't a secret (I'm fairly confident in this assumption), it should be totally okay for a tourist to be curious about it. Dude, got any tips for an aspiring skyguy like me to better use this artifact I stumbled on when a pirate attacked me? I have this other Shadow, and it'd be nice to merge them as you've merged the sky with this tower.
Gisena would also be useful for tower investigation as the Artificer and general smart person, but that's putting too much focus on one point of interest. I think she should investigate the tyrant/the status quo of Nilfel. She did just write a constitution, if she needs an excuse for her interest in politics of a strange place. She is a Princess! Azure can sit on her finger, as usual.
Aeira's Shadowcord is good for investigating a trapped princess, but she's way too underleveled to count as underleveled for this dungeon. Vetoed, she can investigate politics outside of the tower with Gisena, she has a nice eye for detail. Depending on if they think asking about the princess will be suspicious or not, she could split off to focus on that while Gisena stays on the Tyrant stuff.
Aobaru is traveling with an adventurer to get stronger. Visibly strong people are drilling in public. Perhaps we can foist off our teaching responsibilities. You can't just approach an army as easily as a hero, but I'm sure somebody would be amenable to chatting with an aspiring hero.
Verschlengorge is- wait, fuck, can't say that. Anyway. Talking tires him out, and he's still not fully healed, so he's not required to undertake any non-fighting and homebasing duties. We could ask him rune questions, though. He might have some insights about the walls. Hunger also feels an instinctive connection with the runes, for what that's worth.
Letrizia would be useful whereever, she's sharp and bright. Her interest is in Astral Rank, though. Curiosity about the Walls that seem to give off a similar, or even better, Pressure fits well with that. "Hey, tell me about how your defenses work" has an obvious drawback, but these guys are arrogant in their power, so maybe she can get away with it. It's for science, please have pity on a poor grad student.
So Hunger>Tower, Gisena>Tyrant, Aeira>Tyrant/Princess, Aobaru>Magic, Letrizia/Versch>Walls.
Why'd they split up so suspiciously? They have different interests. My desire for honesty does limit my tactics, I think, but it fits together nicely in this case, because everyone does have a genuine interest in each of these areas.
For other resources, our money is nothing special here, but it's always better to have some than none, so keep pockets full. We could trade away the Decimation Lens if any opportunity comes up (I doubt it would), it isn't vital to keep after we found this place. No particular magical plans come to me, blood healing is less valuable in this magic-heavy place, Cut Through is default, and artifice takes time. We could maybe put the Tower in our panoply before we crush it, but that would injure us and I don't want to.
And we have Arete assets, but I've already argued we should use those.
1012 words of
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
Yes, the issue. The issue of being charismatic. The issue where people want to do what we tell them. The issue where our high stats make it too hard for the Doom of the Tyrant to activate. The issue where our companions are more likely to stick with us, and emulate us. The issue where we get too many relationship +s and unlock too many EFB equivalents. That issue.
I'm glad we... *checks notes*... "solved" it.
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