Maybe you should try colouring a Balancebro option red.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
I'm clearly not getting through to you. Once again, having multiple forms does not need to be an integral part of our build, we can be safer merely by pursuing the synergies brought to us by blood progression and ending up with higher overall power. Quickening strengthens us enough that our second form being weaker is irrelevant because of the increased HP of our human body, meanwhile Rage is still strengthened quite a bit by cuts, long term I don't want to rely on rage anyway though, due to it's reliability so slowly switching gears is fine with me.
I believe this wording is used due to the initial period of vulnerability mentioned. After which it takes off. Overall takes into account everything, so a sharp spike in safety at the beginning is going to shift what the average sits at, especially when the increments between build votes are as short as the 1/day we're currently averaging. A couple of hours in a 24 hour period with a sharp advantage is going to leave a large affect.
The wording used here is what gave me the impression that after that it's better equipped to handle things.
Last edited:
Rihaku, how the hell am I supposed to choose between Waifu, polisci with Asuka, and Bloodborne memes, here?
Hmm, Both Rei and the Doll are dolls, so I guess I gotta pick Letrizia to learn about what's going on with the other pilots. I think I read a Hunter!Shinji fic once.
Throwaway references aside, I'm pretty upset that the build I like is stuck with Exhaustion! Alas, sacrifices must be made. If Rihaku thinks it's viable then I'm sure it is, but bleh.
[X] Speak to Letrizia
[X] Bloodslayer
I'm gonna be even more of a useless meme pile if we run into any Vilebloods.
Hmm, Both Rei and the Doll are dolls, so I guess I gotta pick Letrizia to learn about what's going on with the other pilots. I think I read a Hunter!Shinji fic once.
Throwaway references aside, I'm pretty upset that the build I like is stuck with Exhaustion! Alas, sacrifices must be made. If Rihaku thinks it's viable then I'm sure it is, but bleh.
[X] Speak to Letrizia
[X] Bloodslayer
I'm gonna be even more of a useless meme pile if we run into any Vilebloods.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
With Evening Gown exhaustion isn't a big deal. We just leave and rest a couple days.
yea yea, we just leave through the dangerous temple without rank, no biggie. Just 20% of our remaining Apocryphal-free time, we can spare that.
I'm exaggerating for effect, but I do feel strongly that Exhaustion introduces much greater short-term risk than Paralysis. And with progression, short term matters!
I'm exaggerating for effect, but I do feel strongly that Exhaustion introduces much greater short-term risk than Paralysis. And with progression, short term matters!
The Outriders did win last time, the blue-green color combination's at least not guaranteed to sink associated options. And huh, looks like the Pseudo-Grace gained an additional +Str between Fending Off and Meditations? Not that I'm complaining, it does balance out the bonuses.
Brute force was probably the most Balancy Balance build option to win? It was Red, on the other hand Apex was somewhat Balance and was green. I think it's more that any build under the actual name "Balance" is tarred by association. Well, that and the inherent lack of sizzle options under it are usually going to espouse.
Last edited:
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh, fine.
[X] Star-Blade Saint
[X] Speak to Gisena
@ImperatorV , change of plans. Your call if you want to keep to the agreement (still redeemable post-Ruling Ring) or bail.
[X] Star-Blade Saint
[X] Speak to Gisena
@ImperatorV , change of plans. Your call if you want to keep to the agreement (still redeemable post-Ruling Ring) or bail.
- Location
- Pindorama
(once again i cry out, why did we buy form of rage)
It's not about being an "integral part of our build". We have it, and this place's strongest opponents have a chance to force us to rely on it. A chance Quickening doesn't fully obviate, and if we do end up in that situation; we'd be worse off for picking it than anything else. Safety is about preparing for the worst case scenario, Quickening is the opposite of that.
Ehh, harder growth curve =/= safest after the immediate period. Essentially, I don't see it.
Hey, we do have the Pseudo-Grace and Cuts, we are far from useless. We won't be able to push hard, but we can still grind a bit. Or even visit the encampment, that'd be nice.
I quite like Star! I think that the gown and its buffs are probably our best bet to not die with Exhaustion, but I think the greater progress we could make during those Exhaustion hours is worth the debuff from Paralysis.
It is very close, and I'm honestly pretty ambivalent between the two. I'm only voting for Blood over Star because I put in some time arguing for Paralysis yesterday, and I'm being stubborn.
It is very close, and I'm honestly pretty ambivalent between the two. I'm only voting for Blood over Star because I put in some time arguing for Paralysis yesterday, and I'm being stubborn.
- Location
- Pindorama
Hey, I did too, y'know. Relax a bit, go do other things and see your mind then.
This is an excellent point I was kind of overlooking, two days of downtime is a huge loss when operating at Temple speeds. That puts us a good few more picks further behind when compared to being able to go in the very next day.
Form of Rage was an excellent safety net for little baby hunger going into the Temple under leveled, however we've long been told it's eventually not going to be enough, so use the chance while it's still relevant as a panic button (Now) to begin developing the capabilities that will let us not rely on it. Yes there's some specific scenarios where having a stronger form of rage is better than having a monster first form. We've not run into any of them so far though, it's basically only if we ever meet someone so far above us that the first two forms are immediately killed without hope of resistance that it's better.
The fact it has a faster curve means It's all around superior and can take more/harder fights, leading to better gains, now there's perhaps a world in which a build that can do that isn't also safer but seems kind of hard to imagine the circumstances in which that's so.
Last edited:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we still don't know what happened to the merchant pair. The subsequent update claimed Hunger arrived at the antechamber 'without incident', but that phrase was later edited out. We shouldn't go anywhere near the encampment, despite how interesting a location it is. Anyway, tactical voting time:
[X] Speak to Letrizia
[X] Star-Blade Saint
This leaves a bad taste in my mouth, it'd be better to spend the 7 Arete on Preeminence alongside ATC if we could scrounge up the Arete for it. Or just take Balance and save, if approval voting was enabled I bet we'd swiftly arrive at that as a compromise, despite the relatively humdrum name. Even a Stance would be fine, but those are all gated behind Zweihander. So between Gown and Quickening, the two viable options remaining on the table, I'll take the one that enhances all our forms. Hopefully we'll remember to purchase generalized magic protection at a later date.
- Location
- Pindorama
Form of Rage scales with us; so if wasn't enough I don't think Quickening would be either. I think it would be enough if we just got stronger, really. Triple stats and +0.5 Rank only stop mattering given seriously esoteric bullshit; of which Saint makes us far more prepared than Bloodslayer.
It's not about "specific scenarios"; if we pop the first form at all we are worst off not just for that engagement but for the entire rest of the day. If we get attrited down we lose. If we use those conditions only the Magus fight had us not lose the bonus. Now, you can say Quickening would have won those fights without needing Second Form; but if we actually get brought down to it we're massively weaker for the rest of the day. Much better to get something that helps us in all forms so we can keep pushing.
A build that can kill stronger monsters while not being able to avoid Complications and /or losing the majority of our power if we do use Second Form leaving us done for the day does fit that description for me, so I'm not sure it's incongruous. Less safety, more potential gains, versus Saint which is just safer overall. Makes sense to me.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
So I'm thinking that since Mage Lord lost partially due to people being concerned about the time margin for something going wrong given its preptime requirements, 2 days of exhaustion is fine and this is an example of one of the things going wrong Bloodmight gave us time margin for.
The description's a little sparse, but it's unlikely an EFB would shortchange us like that. Personally, I hope that by mastering the Ring we could circumvent our training restriction. How can we both be the ring and be nerfed by it, especially after unlocking its deepest secrets?
@runeblue360 just as a reminder, you've got a marker of mine if you'd like to call it in here.
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
Fanwork#1702 Words
Likewise, I "glittering in the sun" would be an odd description of something in the Temple of the False moon, unless there was an "ominously" added in.
There is a horizon, which I didn't take note of before. Considering how mutilated space is, I'm kind of surprised. Does the world really fall below sight, implying roundness? Or is it an illusion, and the flat voyaging real society is right?
"Halcyon" chorus. I googled Halcyon, apparently it's also a type of kingfisher, in the update called Fisher King. I should really just start looking up every word that shows up in a vocabulary workbook to check for the ten trillion references Rihaku constantly dreams up. At least in relation to the update titles.
Hunger is, of course, a debbie downer who thinks this is suspicious. Given that this swearing fish brought us to the cussing temple, pessimism is the correct response. Unfortunately, he relaxed after a few seconds, whereas constant panic is the objectively correct response to existence where everyone is tugged by everyone else's narrative gravity. He's closer than most people, to be fair.
Must've skimmed over Hunger carving his rod, makes my mistaking it for the transformed Blade more embarrassing. Gisena's tinkering, which we haven't seen her have time to do recently. Another thing to blame the fish for.
In character, alright, let's fish! Stare at that pool with determination. Then use Rank because wow this is still boring.
Hear that, past voters? Maybe Hunger should take a REST!
No mention of the red haze that made him stupid, which is fair.
Hunger calls the pirate a bandit, which is probably technically more accurate because they're not on the ocean. But there's not really a government around here, so crime is more high-sea like? They have a pirate ship so that's obviously the better word, but I understand that Hunger can't call people pirates while wearing an eyepatch, that would be silly.
Zee sounds kind of impressed with Hunger here, which is amusing given where we are a week later. And hasn't she fought Rank 10 enemies before? We'll find out if the current leading vote keeps up. It's different outside of a robot, I guess.
Now we have two targets to blame. Not the voters, still, we've never done anything wrong ever.
Those are terrible odds when it comes to survival, as Rihaku keeps reminding us. She's very accepting of that number, not that she can do much to improve it.
And that's a big if at the end.
Fisher King Hunger's dream of the Fisher King advancement sadly did not come true. We could have retired and become a farmer, but nooo, now we're gonna end this Ring's whole civilization.
Nice use of Rank in a social situation. It was a critical hit.
Hunger's backstory is garbage, as expected. Somebody give this guy some happiness. Not that he'd accept it, would he, Mr. Accursed?
How the hell the Tyrant didn't just splat Hunger immediately remains an open question, I believe. Destiny schmestiny. Also, an insane amount of death, how were they able to keep fighting? This guy must have been some kind fo Tyrant to motivate this level of opposition.
Hunger's advice is one way to avoid the association, but not being such a stereotype in the first place is a better method. Or so I'd say, but destiny still arrives. You think it's Verschlengorge's Rank that shaped her to fit this mold?
Though I do hope that she manages to break the Asuka association before bad things happen, she didn't really have a happy... middle?
The "then increasingly so" bit makes me eager to see what we can do at high rank, if we ever get there. Gotta be a youtube star after we leave the Temple.
Lol, she started out like she was going to give a scientific lecture and immediately devolved into squeeing at how cool Rank is. Trying to find meaning in the babble. We knew about "prognostications" from the Tyrant. Will cuts heart... I can't translate that part, really.
Hunger then shows his superiority at the art of tsun.
Presumably we can do the same thing when we're strong enough, which would be great against all kinds of attacks. Probably draining as hell, though, so maybe the giant robot pilots should learn from us and do more bladewinds?
"...recent studies?" As in, you didn't know that humans could develop Rank before? It should have been pretty obvious that some famous/talented people just had an edge, as was noticed in Hunger's first isekai trip. Or maybe they just didn't notice it was the same thing... but no, her next words imply otherwise. How odd. Maybe something changed recently.
And it's good to know that other people appreciate the beauty that is rAnK. Well, they were here first.
Let's see... we can get 2.2 extra rank for martial endeavors with 32 Arete- no, stop, this daydreaming isn't helping. Focus on the blood and the ring for now!
The Interdict of Cognition is fascinating. AI apocolypses are, of course, terrifying, but many things are terrifying and exponential, so I wonder why they planned against that in particular? Or... hm, mental stats are harder to raise even for a Progression Cursebearer, I guess you can't just get super smart easily without complications, and trying to singularity your mind causes those "complications".
To be continued when we next talk to Letrizia! Which should be... now.
[X] Speak to Letrizia
[X] Bloodslayer
P.S. vote blood
Need some words for the blood god, but don't have enough fluff to react to in the most recent update? As always, the solution lies with fishing! I wonder if there's anything interesting to catch in hindsight. Also, the first deep Letrizia, in preparation for another.
Ah, here's some nostalgia for the days when wildlife was a thing. Birds and bugs are always present, except in the outer temple. That was a reference to Hunger sating himself, wasn't it? We weren't interrupting their life at the time. Fucking Accretion, we get the world filtered through Hunger filtered through Rihaku, and narratives on every level, like some kinda game of telephone.
Likewise, I "glittering in the sun" would be an odd description of something in the Temple of the False moon, unless there was an "ominously" added in.
There is a horizon, which I didn't take note of before. Considering how mutilated space is, I'm kind of surprised. Does the world really fall below sight, implying roundness? Or is it an illusion, and the flat voyaging real society is right?
"Halcyon" chorus. I googled Halcyon, apparently it's also a type of kingfisher, in the update called Fisher King. I should really just start looking up every word that shows up in a vocabulary workbook to check for the ten trillion references Rihaku constantly dreams up. At least in relation to the update titles.
And "Idyllic" does not appear to have any non-obvious meaning! Gisena also has no non-obvious meaning, she just gets five words about how obnoxiously cheerful she is. Give me some of that.
Hunger is, of course, a debbie downer who thinks this is suspicious. Given that this swearing fish brought us to the cussing temple, pessimism is the correct response. Unfortunately, he relaxed after a few seconds, whereas constant panic is the objectively correct response to existence where everyone is tugged by everyone else's narrative gravity. He's closer than most people, to be fair.
I remember how cool the hand-pier was. A very drawable image, and lucky for me I don't have to have artistic talent to see it.
Must've skimmed over Hunger carving his rod, makes my mistaking it for the transformed Blade more embarrassing. Gisena's tinkering, which we haven't seen her have time to do recently. Another thing to blame the fish for.
This is why fishing is, out of character, the absolute worst. I caught a rainbow trout once, with blood and sweat and tears. My father's blood, actually, I tore open his arm with a fishing hook. Then I cried, it was a hot day. Fun times. Fuck fishing. It's not simple for an anxious eight-year old, Hunger!
In character, alright, let's fish! Stare at that pool with determination. Then use Rank because wow this is still boring.
Oh, wait, he can't. Sucks to suck, maybe you should take a rest. ...
Hear that, past voters? Maybe Hunger should take a REST!
No mention of the red haze that made him stupid, which is fair.
Hunger calls the pirate a bandit, which is probably technically more accurate because they're not on the ocean. But there's not really a government around here, so crime is more high-sea like? They have a pirate ship so that's obviously the better word, but I understand that Hunger can't call people pirates while wearing an eyepatch, that would be silly.
Zee sounds kind of impressed with Hunger here, which is amusing given where we are a week later. And hasn't she fought Rank 10 enemies before? We'll find out if the current leading vote keeps up. It's different outside of a robot, I guess.
My favorite line, here again. It is kind of unreasonable to stop and fish when you could rest in the car. If you place no value on stopping to smell the flowers, or are a ruthless minmaxer, or something. We have food at home, Hunger!
Shoving the Tyrant conflict directly at us, Zee. But everything makes sense now. She told us that being reasonable was a social norm, and we immediately wasted all of our limited energy and charged off to a dungeon way above our level.
Now we have two targets to blame. Not the voters, still, we've never done anything wrong ever.
Who actually chews on grass? That's rhetorical, I've seen a lot of people do it, I just never understood the appeal. Smokers with an oral fixation? Clearly Hunger lost half a lung from a cursed cigarette.
Those are terrible odds when it comes to survival, as Rihaku keeps reminding us. She's very accepting of that number, not that she can do much to improve it.
And that's a big if at the end.
Unfortunately, no amount of reason can mitigate the Aprocryphal Curse... is what I want to say, but Zang Kong would probably have some kind of response. Being unreasonable also brings trouble outside of the Curse, as if we didn't have enough already. *cries in Temple*
Fisher King Hunger's dream of the Fisher King advancement sadly did not come true. We could have retired and become a farmer, but nooo, now we're gonna end this Ring's whole civilization.
I think this is telling me to go for a social option over studying the ring? Well, I was already going to switch to Zee after reading this, but now I'm doubly going to do so. We're gonna steal joy and information.
Nice use of Rank in a social situation. It was a critical hit.
The word my eyes locked on this time is "Tide". Fishing, Nullity, Moon, Rank, Crimson? Very applicable word to this story, but I'll keep conspiracy theories to myself for now.
Hunger's backstory is garbage, as expected. Somebody give this guy some happiness. Not that he'd accept it, would he, Mr. Accursed?
How the hell the Tyrant didn't just splat Hunger immediately remains an open question, I believe. Destiny schmestiny. Also, an insane amount of death, how were they able to keep fighting? This guy must have been some kind fo Tyrant to motivate this level of opposition.
Here we see a Veteran Tsundere teaching his junior how to tsun. Nature is beautiful. It's come out more recently, with the whole "I'm not carrying you because I like you or anything, stupid!" to Gisena. He'll never beat her in social combat if he can't be honest with himself.
If I could change my hair color at will, my head would be a disco ball. But that's the kind of attention-grabbing thing Asuka would do, and I suppose even I'd get bored with it after a few days.
Hunger's advice is one way to avoid the association, but not being such a stereotype in the first place is a better method. Or so I'd say, but destiny still arrives. You think it's Verschlengorge's Rank that shaped her to fit this mold?
It's not fair to compare her and her robot to you and the Blade. You're the same thing, might as well compliment yourself on being connected to your arm! Well, that would be an achievement for you, I suppose.
Though I do hope that she manages to break the Asuka association before bad things happen, she didn't really have a happy... middle?
What a coincidence that the practitioner of the coincidence magic meets an expert on coincidence magic. Or does that make it not a coincidence? Didn't Asuka have a degree in metaphysical biology as well? Smh.
The "then increasingly so" bit makes me eager to see what we can do at high rank, if we ever get there. Gotta be a youtube star after we leave the Temple.
Gravity is an especially apt analogy for the Call of the False Moon, and almost certainly intentionally.
Lol, she started out like she was going to give a scientific lecture and immediately devolved into squeeing at how cool Rank is. Trying to find meaning in the babble. We knew about "prognostications" from the Tyrant. Will cuts heart... I can't translate that part, really.
Hunger then shows his superiority at the art of tsun.
Sweet lore.
Presumably we can do the same thing when we're strong enough, which would be great against all kinds of attacks. Probably draining as hell, though, so maybe the giant robot pilots should learn from us and do more bladewinds?
"...recent studies?" As in, you didn't know that humans could develop Rank before? It should have been pretty obvious that some famous/talented people just had an edge, as was noticed in Hunger's first isekai trip. Or maybe they just didn't notice it was the same thing... but no, her next words imply otherwise. How odd. Maybe something changed recently.
And it's good to know that other people appreciate the beauty that is rAnK. Well, they were here first.
I didn't realize until now, but the fish was the test. The other bit is nonsense, it doesn't sound like that at all. Nothing she said implies that... wait, nevermind, going by the gravity metaphor measuring astral mass should be a thing.
Though I wouldn't measure mass on a hyper-logarathmic scale. I didn't see that "theoretical" before, maybe she hasn't actually piloted Versch at that level. I'm salivating to reach that level, though at our current level rank sadly isn't the quickest path to power.
Let's see... we can get 2.2 extra rank for martial endeavors with 32 Arete- no, stop, this daydreaming isn't helping. Focus on the blood and the ring for now!
Hunger is very good at leading a conversation, at least when his partner isn't superhumanly good. Also at acting like his guesses are smarter than they are. He does have good instincts, that what this whole rank conversation is about.
The Interdict of Cognition is fascinating. AI apocolypses are, of course, terrifying, but many things are terrifying and exponential, so I wonder why they planned against that in particular? Or... hm, mental stats are harder to raise even for a Progression Cursebearer, I guess you can't just get super smart easily without complications, and trying to singularity your mind causes those "complications".
DUN DUN DUn oh wait we already did this thing.
To be continued when we next talk to Letrizia! Which should be... now.
[X] Speak to Letrizia
[X] Bloodslayer
P.S. vote blood
Last edited:
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
On another note, studying Verschlengorge in conjunction with the Gisena Evolution Star-Blade Saint provides seems like it'd provide us with more safety margin to recover from being exhausted, along with providing insurance against "Unforseen circumstances" like hostile attention from the encampment or an inner resident following us outside the temple or something.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
we are united in our quest to produce 1700-word-omakes to support talking with Letrizia!
now if only you would vote for the right build! ^.-
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah, I think I'd like to call it in, thank you for the alert.
Last edited:
- Location
- Earth
welp, both of my top options are winning, how nice!
anyway, in case Star Blade Saint wins: "Hun, how do I look?"
"tee hee can't lose slippers if I don't wear them in the first place"
anyway, in case Star Blade Saint wins: "Hun, how do I look?"
"tee hee can't lose slippers if I don't wear them in the first place"
Alas poor S A V I N G, it was not meant to be.
Gisena buffs or infinite value town...
[X] Bloodslayer
[X] Speak to Letrizia
While I'd love to give Gisena more love, it's undeniable that Bloodslayer will offer us more raw scaling to let us beat the Temple.
RIP Form of Rage, you neverscored proced.
Gisena buffs or infinite value town...
[X] Bloodslayer
[X] Speak to Letrizia
While I'd love to give Gisena more love, it's undeniable that Bloodslayer will offer us more raw scaling to let us beat the Temple.
RIP Form of Rage, you never
One advancement in Blood is already making us a mini FOR, is we consistently invest it'll outpace soon enough.
That's the whole point, your whole argument rests on narrow scenarios, it would be like if in response to your argument all I did was constantly harp about the chance of failure in activating FOR, yes the failure states of any build are bad. If everything goes wrong for quickening indeed it's weaker. That's the trradeoff for otherwise being much stronger. If Quickening doesn't die it just immediately regens to full anyway so it doesn't really get attrited in most circumstances.
I don't know why you think it couldn't avoid complications? Generally I think we should be making a point that being reduced to Second Form means we're done for the day regardless, we can't heal it and we saw what happened even when we were taking a low risk option right next to the entrance when we pushed things. So I don't think there'll be a huge amount of increased uptime in comparison.
Anyhow, your scenario also seems to be ignoring progression, if neither build got picks after a fight and we got reduced to ghost then sure Saint would be safer. Considering the superior buys the fights slayer can pick would grant though and I don't see that as being a sure thing even in that very Saint favorable scenario.